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Posts: 1303

Shifu

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Q: I ordered some frozen chicken for delivery this one time

I ordered the chicken in addition to a bunch of other groceries. The groceries were delivered to my door by a delivery guy. I asked to verify everything in my order, so the delivery guy proceeds to unpack everything for me. The chicken has thawed at this point, so everything is now covered in raw chicken juices.  I tell the delivery guy to wash his hands in the kitchen, but he kindly refuses and leaves with raw chicken juices still on his hands.

 

Is it any wonder why China is the breeding ground for disease?

5 years 31 weeks ago in  Health & Safety - China

 
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Emperor

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At times like that - since there's not much you can do about it anyway - it's best not to wonder how many times that chicken had been frozen, thawed and refrozen.

hi2u:

That doesn't bother me as much. Cooking will kill everything on it. As long as there are no maggots

5 years 31 weeks ago
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icnif77:

Cooking will kill everything ...?

 

You are 24 times more likely to get salmonella if you do NOT keep backyard chickens!

 

5 years 31 weeks ago
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Stiggs:

I'm not so sure about being able to cook away food poisoning. I suppose it's possible if you cook hell out of it but then again..

 

I had a friend who got a nasty case from fried chicken - KFC style so deep fried. I would have thought that would kill anything. I think he ended up in hospital, not sure but he was laid up at home for days because of it.

 

The worst food poisoning I ever had was from restaurant chicken. It looked cooked, wasn't pink in the middle or anything but I was a mess for a few days after  that meal.

 

I don't take any chances with chicken now. If I suspect it's dodgy I'll pass on it, don't want to go through that again.

 

 

5 years 31 weeks ago
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5 years 31 weeks ago
 
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Posts: 5333

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At times like that - since there's not much you can do about it anyway - it's best not to wonder how many times that chicken had been frozen, thawed and refrozen.

hi2u:

That doesn't bother me as much. Cooking will kill everything on it. As long as there are no maggots

5 years 31 weeks ago
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icnif77:

Cooking will kill everything ...?

 

You are 24 times more likely to get salmonella if you do NOT keep backyard chickens!

 

5 years 31 weeks ago
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Stiggs:

I'm not so sure about being able to cook away food poisoning. I suppose it's possible if you cook hell out of it but then again..

 

I had a friend who got a nasty case from fried chicken - KFC style so deep fried. I would have thought that would kill anything. I think he ended up in hospital, not sure but he was laid up at home for days because of it.

 

The worst food poisoning I ever had was from restaurant chicken. It looked cooked, wasn't pink in the middle or anything but I was a mess for a few days after  that meal.

 

I don't take any chances with chicken now. If I suspect it's dodgy I'll pass on it, don't want to go through that again.

 

 

5 years 31 weeks ago
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5 years 31 weeks ago
 
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Sounds like he wanted to get away, mainly because you insisted he check your groceries. Was this guy's delivery company directly affiliated with the online shop, or did you just demand that an unlucky, busy delivery guy open your package for you?

If you have hygiene concerns and are serious about them, next time check your own grocery list instead of obliging a courier to physically do it for you, milord. I can understand if you asked a courier to wait while you check a package's completeness yourself, but what a patient courier you got, putting up with your extra personalised service requests. Perhaps he thought you might tip him, but when it was clear you were wasting his energy for no compensation whatsoever, I totally understand why the courier felt: "Fuck this cunt, I wouldn't wash my hands with his tapwater if my life depended on it." - and promptly left without any angry words to you. Is it any wonder Chinese sometimes complain about privileged laowai?

hi2u:

So you say that Chinese are becoming sick because of privileged laowai? I heard the CCP is looking for recruits like you. 

5 years 31 weeks ago
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PulSartre:

Coin, you have my thumbs down for your comment: 

 

You see, here is your Freudian slip: "I totally understand why the courier felt: "Fuck this cunt, I wouldn't wash my hands with his tapwater if my life depended on it." - and promptly left without any angry words to you. Is it any wonder Chinese sometimes complain about privileged laowai?"

 

Your very own projection of what you would think, instead. 

 

I read with interest your comments, solid built in, generally; then you go beyond yourself and here you are at it, pretending this guy must have though such things. It's not even subtlety whatsoever. It's mediocre reading in plain sight. 

 

BTW. That guy wouldn't have gone away without him cleaning his hands, if I were the op. However, the guy was offered the chance to clean his hands before going away, and I am sure as a token of respect towards him. 

 

What the op made was something quite nice after all. He simply opened his door, thing which the other guy wouldn't do it at all. Yes, I would wonder the same way the op does here in. 

 

I believe the dirt of Chinese people would never bother them at all, yet, no wonder that they are hosts of so many diseases in and out of China. 

 

I look forward to more comments, Freudian like this one. 

5 years 31 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

Where's the Freudian slip? You'll have to explain that to me. The only thing that slipped through, was the most important detail when I read op's story the first time. Then I read it again and thought: "wait a second - since when do delivery guys open your package for you?" - and that cast the interaction in a whole new context.

5 years 30 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

@hi2u: I'm quite evenhanded in my comment. That the expat looks bad in the situation is not evidence of bias, but your reaction/accusation is a sign that you're not willing to reflect upon your course of action. It's just that the situation you portrayed is extraordinarily cunty. It's not normal. You obligated a busy delivery worker to open a package from a company he has nothing to do with, then you make an issue of him not washing his hands. Would you do that at home in your country, with the postman? No, coz he'd probably quote regulations and leave. It was a lazy, privileged thing to do, and I'm of the opinion that the chinese courier probably walked into the nearest corner shop and asked to use the tap. And had a story to tell about some weird laowai who made him unpack his groceries.

5 years 30 weeks ago
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hi2u:

Every one of your assumptions is wrong, and you attributed the delivery guy's poor health decisions to privileged laowai. That's a real cunty thing to do. 

5 years 30 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

Besides the extra task burden you placed on an unsuspecting courier, how would you rate your decision to let a stranger unpack your groceries with unwashed courier hands? Or are an expat's poor hygiene decisions exempt from scrutiny? And anyone who speaks up is a pro-China biased toady? Joke! You, I mean.

5 years 30 weeks ago
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hi2u:

Again, you've made a lot of assumptions, all of them wrong. And now you're making another assumption that the courier's hands were dirty before they were dirty, and still blaming privileged laowai for his poor health decisions. That's a real cunty thing to do. 

5 years 30 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

Yes, how reasonable are our assumptions and expectations? It's all subjectivised with a little effort. Then you can pretend that letting people unpack your groceries is a reasonable expectation, ripping on them for not washing hands is a reasonable assumption, and when someone questions your expectations and assumptions, it's time for more subjectivising! This way, you stay elevated above criticism, beyond reproach, with an allegedly unblemished record of conduct and decision-making! I'm just down in the dirt, my mind in the gutter with the Chinese plebs, when I say I'd probably wash my hands elsewhere if I'd had that disrespectful encounter where you wasted a courier's time. Have a bit more respect for people in the future, don't abuse your status as foreigner to rope people into doing stuff for you for free. It indirectly affects all expats. It helps if you can perspective-shift into the courier's situation - then perhaps that encounter might never have happened. But you'd need to respect people as equals to do that, not assume they are inferior, hygienically or otherwise. You have no proof the guy from this topic didn't wash hands elsewhere, and considering what you put him through, the odds of him simply not wanting to use YOUR tap in particular, aren't much smaller than him not caring about chicken juices on his hands.

5 years 30 weeks ago
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hi2u:

Again you keep assuming that which I have told you repeatedly is not true, so let's see if you can finally wrap your mind around this. 

 

The courier was specific to the store I bought the groceries from. I have had some items either broken or missing on occassion. Checking the contents is common practice. I checked them together with him and unloaded stuff as we checked. It took no longer than a minute to go through them. 

 

 

Somehow you think it's acceptable for the courier to keep raw chicken on his hands even though I offered to let him wash them clean. He either doesn't understand proper hygiene, or does not care about spreading it to others. Either way you defend his choice because of "privileged laowai", which has absolutely f*ck all to do in the context of his hygiene choices. 

5 years 30 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

"He either doesn't understand proper hygiene, or does not care about spreading it to others" That's the conclusion you're laboring here, but consider another possibility. He might have been so insulted and inconvenienced by you whipping him into unnecessary additional tasks, that his dislike for you, and urge to get away from you quickly, spurred him to clean his hands elsewhere. And I don't blame him. Here you are, on this forum shitting on him, trying to make his action into a value judgement against everyone of his background. And when someone from your background points out to you how rude you were to him, and how bigoted you are against Chinese online without justification, you double down and admit no error. Smart courier, he knew to stay the hell away from you!

5 years 30 weeks ago
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hi2u:

So again your conclusion is that he made bad hygiene decisions because of privileged laowai. Do you even hear yourself?

5 years 30 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

Again the straw man. Not what I said, not the issue at hand. Your fragile ego depends on this straw man. It's not proven he didn't wash hands outside, it is proven you behaved in a disrespectful and privileged way. Take ownership. Your face is already lost, it's just up to you whether you are dignified or cringeworthy about it. If I had made a faux pas like this, I'd be in damage control mode, trying to minimise loss of face. All I see from you is denial and finger-pointing. An ego tantrum in the making.

5 years 30 weeks ago
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hi2u:

You talk about straw men yet you still cling to this privileged foreigner narrative. I guess that’s all you have to say since literally everything you assumed I’ve shown to be wrong. Drop the moral superiority act and call a disgusting act what it is. A man leaves covered in raw chicken even after being offered to wash up, and you blame privileged laowai. Don’t try to weasel your way out of that one, that’s what you said. Now you’ve lost face after being called out and keep on digging trying to make the situation more than what it was. Seriously stop embarrassing yourself with straw men and false assumptions.

5 years 30 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

Temper temper. It is not normal to make a delivery man unpack your parcel, to check your grocery list. It is out-of-touch and shows a disregard for the person whose time you are casually using. You admitted all this in your OP.

5 years 30 weeks ago
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hi2u:

And I’ll point you back to where I said he is the courier of that particular store, they have broken things or forgot things previously, and it’s normal to check it quickly. But the facts of the situation don’t matter to you as long as you can feel morally superior by posturing with a privileged laowai narrative. You can keep thinking that if you want. In any case, as I have already said before, that has f*uck all to do with the lack of hygiene knowledge in this country regarding raw chicken. Your false assessment of the situation has absolutely no bearing on my question “is it any wonder why China is the breeding ground for disease?” Your privileged laowai narrative doesn’t change that.

5 years 30 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

And my postman is the courier for Amazon. If Amazon makes mistakes with their packages, of course the postman must set aside some time to unpack my wares to my satisfaction. Other deliveries can wait. Remember to let the pizza delivery guy check that all your toppings are present and accounted for, with his unwashed hands. Joke!

5 years 30 weeks ago
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hi2u:

Again, your privileged laowai narrative has f*ck all to do with their lack of hygiene knowledge. I know it makes you feel self important to try to fit inconsequential details to your narrative.

5 years 30 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

Your last 8 comments (so, all of them), you always repeat the phrase "privileged laowai". So, who is pushing a narrative, here? He who takes offense at a reproach, admits that it may have been deserved. You protest too much. It's your subconscious trying to get through to you. And to reiterate: You can't be sure the courier didn't wash hands elsewhere, and you are far too certain about what was (and wasn't) going on in his thought processes when the incident happened. Why? I'll tell you: To push your "unhygienic Chinese" narrative. It's a very discriminatory narrative to push, especially when based on a limited perception of single encounter. You say the courier checking groceries is "normal", so obviously he has checked your groceries before. What made this instance stand out as proof of your value judgement about the poor hygiene of people of his background? So, China is a breeding ground for diseases. It's not enough for it to be the largest population in the largest country on the largest continent that causes it to be a breeding ground. No, there also needs to be something Bad with the people themselves, because one time a delivery guy declined to wash his hands when he had your chicken juices on it. Think a moment about what you are doing.

5 years 30 weeks ago
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hi2u:

Ahem you are the one who first implied that the courier was trying to get away because of privileged laowai. Don’t try to weasel your way out of that one because I won’t let you. That is essentially the crux of your argument and you just keep digging and shifting the goalposts to try to make the situation conform to your self-important view. If the courier knew how bad raw chicken is, he would have washed up immediately when I told him to. He obviously didn’t know any better, which is one reason why China is a breeding ground for disease. 

5 years 30 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

The crux of my argument is that you might be wrong, because you don't know the courier's motivations, or his actions after he left. The certainty with which you presume to know these unknowns are evidence to me, that you are biased and working towards your own narrative, of him being unhygienic, and all of China by extension. What you have chosen to focus on was the fact that I called it lazy and privileged, which obviously is the main issue for you. To you, this aside comment that ruffled your feathers is "the crux of the argument". To me, the main issue is the fact that you are using this very strange encounter as ammunition to attack Chinese hygiene. It's neither even-handed nor honest. I'm not saying Chinese hygiene is good, but this contrived scenario isn't even valid as an objective observation. It's just nonsense, and it says more about your behaviour than it does about Chinese hygiene.

5 years 30 weeks ago
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hi2u:

You thinking this scenario isn't an objective observation just shows that you really don't understand the scenario and you yourself are biased and working towards your own narrative. Objectively, the man left covered in raw chicken after I offered him to wash up. Objectively, this is a lack of knowledge or willfulness on his part to not spread it to others, since objectively, there is no place in my community he could have washed after he left. Objectively, China has a new bird flu every year. He objectively lacks common hygiene knowledge or otherwise does not care to spread raw chicken to others. Objectively, your narrative of a "privileged laowai" has no bearing on his lack of hygiene knowledge or the general abundance of disease in China. My encounter with him is merely one of many countless encounters I've had in China, which is why your narrative of the "privileged laowai" is evidence of your bias in spite of the fact that you yourself agree that they lack the general hygiene knowledge we have. 

5 years 30 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

I get frustrated at how terms like objectively get misused like this by people all the time. You use that term in the most subjective ways, while you are jumping to unwarranted conclusions. Some people use language to convey meaning accurately, others sprinkle it like a flavouring. Your science-flavoured milkshake still tasted like tripe to me . Suffice to say I think you are jumping to conclusions. I don't agree that westerners have superior hygiene standards, but we have better enforcement by regulations and social convention/pressure. Chinese are often too free, and don't feel compelled to keep themselves clean and presentable. There are plenty of slobs in the West who outdo your courier in filthiness, I guarantee you. And finally, since you apparently know for sure there's no place in your community where the courier could have washed his hands, I guess you also checked his vehicle and confirmed the absence of hand sanitizer?

5 years 30 weeks ago
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hi2u:

My conclusions aside, it is not my opinion that he left without washing his hands and that there's no place in my community he could have washed up. Those are the facts. Objectively he was a risk to others after leaving no matter what his intentions were. You have pushed this privileged foreigner narrative despite the cumulation of my observations in China of which this most recent encounter was just one part of. You insist that I must be wrong due to your own moral relativism without acknowledging that I also might be right. I said nothing of western slobs and merely gave my own anecdote which you took and turned it into a privileged foreigner situation. That is why you are biased yourself. 

5 years 30 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

What caused the courier's hands to get covered in filthy chicken juices? Did it happen by his own agency, while pursuing his own goals? And what of the motivation: Is it 'objectively' established that the courier refused to wash hands out of disregard for hygiene concerns? Could dislike, shyness or even politeness have played a role? You seem to have lots of clear answers. You accuse me of bias, but is bias more often linked with offering a false sense of clarity, or with open-mindedness? Uncertainty and bias are practically oxymorons. You preach certainty. You are biased.

5 years 30 weeks ago
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hi2u:

For the last time, his motivation is not the point. It does not matter how his hands became dirty, what his intentions were, or what he did afterwards. Those have nothing to do with the health situation in China and their general lack of awareness of the harms of raw chicken. He became a public health risk the moment he left. He either was not aware of the health risk or he did not care, there is no other option, period. Do you make excuses for someone who drives drunk? "Oh, he was just embarrassed to ask his friend to drive him home. His friend is the one who dragged him out and he was too polite to refuse. You don't know that his house isn't right next door."  You are focused on excuses for his actions rather than his actions. Your focus on the excuses instead of his actions shows your bias and your own self-importance. Instead of pointing out a bad result, you make excuses like "privileged laowai". You can think that all you want, although that's not true in this situation, and you can say "well people in the west are just as bad". It's that kind of whataboutism and your focus on excuses that shows your own bias against the objective situation.

5 years 30 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

You sound like a malicious bureaucrat. Yes, technically he is a public health risk. But you make it sound like he is spreading ebola . He's a member of the public, his hands are covered in unhealthy chicken juices and anyone who shakes his hand and then eats is at risk. Except in China, people rarely shake hands. You need to see people's actions in proportion, and give an even-handed evaluation. If I sneeze into my hand, that's dirty. If I sneeze into my hand while Chinese, I'm a public health risk? Lighten up.

5 years 30 weeks ago
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hi2u:

No, again your bias is showing by assuming I have some kind of anti-Chinese agenda. I said nothing about the hygiene of foreigners or other countries, although I have many stories about them. I have my perception of the general hygiene knowledge in China, which is formed by my experience in China, where my anecdote of the courier is just one piece of the picture. I could have just as easily mentioned the many times I've seen people picking up raw chicken and other meats in the markets and then handling other items or letting their kids touch them. Instead of engaging in whataboutism, I point out the bad situations when I see them. Your assumptions of the situation of my anecdote and whatever you think the courier might have been thinking or planned to do has nothing to do with the level of hygiene knowledge here or the fact that China produces avian flu and is still a breeding ground for disease. If you are so focused on making assumptions of my one anecdotal experience, then perhaps you need to lighten up yourself.  

5 years 30 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

If a hospital has multi-drug resistant germs in its hallways, does that automatically mean it's a bad hospital? No, it just means that lots of sick people and antibiotics are there, and shit happens. Similarly, China is the place where shit happens, because it's the biggest country on the most populous continent. You presume to draw connections where there aren't necessarily any. Is there a causal connection between Chinese cultural hygiene habits, and the emergence of new diseases in the region? It's possible, but it's not certain. Given the circumstances, it doesn't have to be true. The certainty and conviction with which you claim that obviously there is a connection, that my friend is intellectual dishonesty . That's bias. An unwillingness to admit you're not sure.

5 years 30 weeks ago
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hi2u:

Right, and if your problem is that I drew a connection between my anecdote and the widespread disease in China, you shouldn’t have pushed your privileged laowai narrative, which is precisely why I made my first comment to begin with. I could tell immediately you had some moral agenda when you were focused on trivial details of the anecdote and not the connection.

5 years 30 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

For the umpteenth time, I pushed an 'intellectual dishonesty' narrative (and won). That I mentioned you were being rude and lazy while doing what you did to the courier, was not the main issue. It's like saying the crux of the Brexit argument was an 'anti-Polish labour competition'-narrative. It may have been mentioned, but was only a small part of the main narrative.

5 years 26 weeks ago
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hi2u:

Wow, you really can't accept defeat can you? This thread was finished weeks ago but you just can't accept that you're wrong. And now you're trying to change what you originally argued, and you still don't understand what the main point is!

 

No, you did not push an "intellectual disohonesty" narrative. You pushed a "privileged laowai" narrative and were focused on making excuses for the courier's lack of hygiene knowledge and bad judgment. You accept that as a valid excuse for the courier to not wash up and put other people at risk. That is your problem and the main issue you tried to argue (and failed). The reason you failed is because my story with the courier is not the main point of my original post!

 

The main point of my original post (which is obvious to everyone except you) was to say that China is full of disease in part because of the lack of hygiene knowledge here. Nothing in your original response even came close to touching on the main point. Your "privileged laowai" narrative was the main issue you argued, there was nothing else, and it is not even relevant to the main point of my op.  

5 years 25 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

You make the lie big, you keep repeating it, and you think eventually people will believe it. So, when you started this thread, what was the overall conclusion you were working towards? "How totally-not-cunty am I?" or "How dirty are the Chinese, I know right?" I took issue with your conclusion, because I believe it was based on a limited perspective of an encounter, with incomplete information. It is proven, but you still maintained your subjective example was hard evidence that China is a breeding ground for disease due to habits. I spoke with my wife about your encounter, and she insists no courier would wash hands in a stranger's kitchen due to anti-litigation policies.

5 years 25 weeks ago
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hi2u:

By further making excuses for the courier's behavior because of some anti-litigation policy, you're actually proving my conclusion. In effect what you're saying is that Chinese would rather spread disease than clean up. It's like me saying that the Chinese are callous for not helping an elderly person falling over, and then you saying "that's because they're afraid of getting sued". No shit sherlock, that's exactly why they're callous and don't help the elderly. My example was not subjective at all, but you are imposing your own subjective viewpoint on a situation without disproving the facts of the situation, and the facts of the situation are that the courier refused to wash off raw chicken and put others at risk. Your privileged laowai narrative doesn't change that.  

5 years 25 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

It means he probably washed his hands elsewhere. But quiet your ego: You already emphasized your denial to acknowledge this possibility, no matter how likely it was. You saw a man refuse to wash his hands with your tapwater, so "the facts are damning!" I don't need another rehash of your unwillingness to perspective shift, consider others' situations or even basic nuance. You look real smart, doing so. As Homer Simpson would say: "S. M. R. T. Smart!"

5 years 25 weeks ago
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hi2u:

So finally, after demolishing all your subjective statements and excuses, your only position is that the courier could have washed his hands elsewhere, when I have already said that there is nowhere else he could have washed in my community. There is no public restroom, no water fountain, nothing. He refused to wash off raw chicken from his hands and likely continued to make deliveries to other people. Of course the courier could have taken the elevator down without pushing any buttons and driven his delivery bike with his knees to the Mcdonald's, but as the saying goes, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a duck. The more you try to make excuses for him the dumber you look. 

5 years 24 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

You couldn't possibly know for sure. Admitting you don't know what you can't know, is the first hallmark of an intelligent, open mind. Was there no pack of baby wipes or hand sanitizer in his glove compartment, this you are also *absolutely certain* of? Because he's a filthy Chinese, right? And you know him better than he knows himself. Can you even convince yourself with these feeble lies? This is an amazing Dunning-Kruger display. Maybe I know *you* better than you know yourself, haha. Maybe. I don't know. But you "know", huh? You amazing prophet, you! Hahaha.

5 years 24 weeks ago
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hi2u:

ding ding ding, there's the answer I've been waiting for. Never put a dumb argument in someone's mouth, let them make it themselves. The likelihood of the courier having hand sanitizer is the same as a Chinese rest stop having toilet paper. Don't even pretend to assume that's a likely possibility when they don't even use soap after taking a shit when it's right there next to the tap. So again, is it any wonder why China is a breeding ground for disease?

5 years 24 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

Very disingenuous. Public places have no tp coz it gets swiped. Chinese taking every free item offered in public, is a different issue that has no bearing on whether a courier might carry his own wet wipes or hand sanitizer with him for his own usage. What do you think every Chinese carries with them, if they need to use public bathrooms? What do they tell fob expats to always bring with them (just like Chinese do)? Your intellectual excellence knows no bounds. I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry about you at this point. You're of the same ethnic background as me, so shame on me too. You're in China now, being privileged, racist and dumb, showing the Chinese what people like us are all about? Yay.

5 years 24 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

Formatting issue: I wanted to paste the lyrics for The Grudge by Tool, but it became an ugly wall of text. Never mind.

5 years 24 weeks ago
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icnif77:

Chorus]

Wear the grudge like a crown of negativity

Calculate what we will or will not tolerate

Desperate to control all and everything

Unable to forgive your scarlet lettermen

 

[Verse 1]

Clutch it like a cornerstone

Otherwise it all comes down

Justify denials and

Grip them to the lonesome end

 

Clutch it like a cornerstone

Otherwise it all comes down

Terrified of being wrong

Ultimatum prison cell

 

[Pre Chorus]

Saturn ascends

Choose one or ten

Hang on or be

Humbled again

Humbled again

 

[Verse 2]

Clutch it like a cornerstone

Otherwise it all comes down

Justify denials and

Grip them to the lonesome end

 

[Pre Chorus]

Saturn ascends

Comes round again

Saturn ascends

The one, the ten

Ignorant to

The damage done

 

[Chorus]

Wear the grudge like a crown of negativity

Calculate what we will or will not tolerate

Desperate to control all and everything

Unable to forgive the scarlet lettermen

 

[Verse 3]

Wear your grudge like a crown

Desperate to control

Unable to forgive

And we're sinking deeper

Defining

Confining

And we're sinking deeper

Controlling

Defining

And we're sinking deeper

 

[Chorus]

Saturn comes back around to show you everything

Let's you choose what you will not see and then

Drags you down like a stone or lifts you up again

Spits you out like a child, light and innocent

 

[Bridge]

Saturn comes back around. Lifts you up like a child

Or drags you down like a stone

To consume you 'til you

Choose to let this go

Choose to let this go

 

[Instrumental]

 

[Verse 4]

Give away the stone

Let the oceans take and

Transmutate

This cold and fated anchor

Give away the stone

Let the waters kiss and

Transmutate these

Leaden grudges into

Gold

 

Aaaagh

 

[Outro]

Let go, let go, let go, let go

Let go, let go, let go, let go

Let go, let go, let go, let go

Let go, let go, let go, let go

 

Let go, let go, let go, let go

Let go, let go, let go, let go

Let go, let go, let go, let go

Let go, let go, let go, let go

 

Let go, let go, let go, let go

Let go, let go, let go, let go

Let go, let go, let go, let go

Let go, let go, let go

 

 

5 years 24 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

Very helpful, icnif. Much appreciated.

5 years 24 weeks ago
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hi2u:

Wrong again. There is nothing that would have been better for the courier and for public health than if he had just washed up when I told him to, because he was a health risk the moment he refused and left covered in raw chicken.  Your excuses for his behavior and your obsession with the privileged laowai are concerning.  You're like the idiots in America who blame white people for the world's problems because "white privilege" instead of discussing the problems. Your assumption that I am the same ethnically as you also shows your inherent bias. 

5 years 24 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

Let go.

5 years 24 weeks ago
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hi2u:

And pot meets kettle

5 years 24 weeks ago
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5 years 31 weeks ago
 
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I have nothing but good to say about the 2 on-line grocery services that I use. 100% perfect record over 5+ years of quality service and delivery.    packaging and icing and prompt  and just plain exceptionally good service, in my humble opinion.

 #1                  http://www.gzgrocery.cn/

 #2            http://www.nogogo.cn/ I live 5-600km from guangzhou and more from shenzhen    fantastic  places when you want a good sausage or cheese or a pickle or a can of no bone soup

hi2u:

Oh I order mostly from another online grocer in Shenzhen and it's always a good experience. I don't even touch nogogo unless they have a massive sale. They are sinfully overpriced

5 years 31 weeks ago
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BHGAL:

guess I agree about the pricing...   but sometimes you gotta pay for your strange desires.

 

I know I pay a lot for something, when I'm told it CAN'T be done...  

 

really not that bad         I get free delivery  for 5-600km     special customer?    who pays for delivery?

5 years 31 weeks ago
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icnif77:

You should  all move to muslin's countries ... 

I need help with English teaching in my city ... c'mon .. 

5 years 31 weeks ago
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5 years 31 weeks ago
 
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A: In my personal experience, teaching certificates have varied in releva
A:In my personal experience, teaching certificates have varied in relevance depending on the context and location. Here's a breakdown of each aspect:a) Getting the teaching job: Teaching certificates can certainly enhance your chances of securing a teaching position, especially in formal educational settings such as schools and language institutions. Many employers prefer candidates who have undergone specific training in pedagogy and instructional techniques, which these certificates often provide. However, other factors such as experience, references, and the demand for teachers in a particular area also play significant roles in the hiring process.b) Getting a higher salary than your uncertified competitors: In some cases, holding a teaching certificate can indeed lead to a higher salary compared to uncertified competitors. Many educational institutions have structured salary scales that take into account factors such as level of education, years of experience, and additional certifications. Holding a teaching certificate may place you in a higher salary bracket or make you eligible for certain salary incentives or bonuses. However, this can vary widely depending on the specific policies of the institution or organization.c) Getting promotions: Teaching certificates can be beneficial for career advancement and securing promotions within the field of education. They demonstrate a commitment to professional development and mastery of teaching skills, which are qualities that many employers value when considering candidates for leadership positions or administrative roles. Additionally, some promotions may require specific certifications or qualifications, making holding a teaching certificate essential for advancement in certain cases.Regarding which certificate yields better results, it largely depends on the specific requirements of the job market and the educational context in which you intend to work. For example:A Postgraduate Certificate in Education (PGCE) is often highly regarded in formal school settings and can be advantageous for those seeking positions in primary or secondary education.Montessori certification is valuable for individuals interested in working in Montessori schools or implementing Montessori principles in their teaching approach.A Teaching English as a Foreign Language (TEFL) certificate is particularly relevant for those seeking to teach English to non-native speakers in international contexts or language schools.Ultimately, the best certificate for you will depend on your career goals, the specific requirements of the positions you're interested in, and the preferences of potential employers in your target job market. It's essential to research the requirements and preferences of employers in your desired field and tailor your qualifications accordingly. -- ruqaiya761