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Posts: 126

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Q: if you could work in any country other than China where would you go work at? And Why?

just doing some research on work choices.

10 years 13 weeks ago in  Teaching & Learning - China

 
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Posts: 290

Governor

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how about Japan? just to see that Asians can be civilized. Wink

coineineagh:

That's an answer that's sure to provoke anger from Chinese. Japan is simply learning from foreign example, but is barely ahead on the same track as China. If anything, their original culture was more bloodthirsty than China's. Japanese kids still like groping ESL teachers in the privates, so whether it's race or culture I don't see any real difference.

10 years 13 weeks ago
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nicholasba:

actually most chinese i met in these years wouldn't admit it to you but they think exactly the same thing Samm11 said..

10 years 13 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

let me take something I saved from another website about this topic. Glad I did, coz that forum doesn't allow any political discussion, and the comment was deleted: from my experience, the animosity cuts both ways but can manifest in different modes. Koreans are quite upfront about the dislike, as they have a sense of historical vindication, due to the Occupation and war crimes and etc. Japanese aren't quite as outright (though get a few drunk and that can change) as they need to balance the dislike against the general sentiment that what Imperial Japan did were some pretty bad things (although that sentiment is increasingly challenged). But it manifests in different ways --- for example, the belief that Japan is the bigger country that has historically won conflicts and wars and consequently they don't notice the "people that they stepped on along the way." That's a very pervasive belief among Japanese, that Koreans and Chinese are really just experiencing petty "ressentiment" for their more successful neighbors. Which is more than little insulting to the subjects involved. It's a historical analysis that is founded on the assumption that Japan has just always been the successful one and others just can't deal. Conversely, in Korea, the historical view tends to be that Korea was the more successful nation, and Japan was the island backwater, technologically and culturally under-developed, and insanely aggressive and belligerent, and continually attempted to invade the mainland and were beaten handily every time until the last. And that it was actually Japan's weakness in the face of Western imperialism that, ironically, led to their earlier industrialization and consequent military success, while Korea's stability allowed them to maintain independence. And that despite the industrial and technological jumpstart they received, the Japanese were culturally and philosophically still backwards, as evidenced by their war crimes and pointless militarism - like giving a machine gun to a chimpanzee.

10 years 13 weeks ago
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Samm11:

coineineagh, it might be very interesting but it has nothing to do with my comment. i just said japanese are more civilized implying they would not spit in the street, break in a line, stare at foreigners etc. I didn't mean to hurt chinese people by that comment, for me it's something I think is true and, just like nicholasba said, many chinese have the same opinion about japanese being more civilized in that way.

10 years 13 weeks ago
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nicholasba:

wow, thats a hate against japan huh....

 

im not going too much in deep this topic as I am still in china and i respect my host country, but the last remark you did about japanese people isn't merely a superficial analysis but also a little bit racist. Talking about the pointless nationalism, maybe u should point the finger to their western ideals who breed them, if u have a clue about them.

 

WARS are dirty and civilian suffers. Those people who commit that crimes, no matter if japanese, american (wanna talk what american soldier did in iraq or afganistan, just to talk about recent history or about the 2 completely unnecessary atomic bombs on japan CIVILIANS), israelian or whatever, are criminals. But labeling a whole nation and its culture for the crimes of a few  is even more criminal, and i guess very few country has a completely immaculate history.

 

 

10 years 13 weeks ago
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mArtiAn:

  I saw a popular television show once where the host went into a shop in Japan and there were pornographic magazines on the same shelf (which was at most people's knee level) as children's comics. I put spitting, line cutting and staring wayyy behind that in terms of 'civilized' behaviour. And nicholas, i'm really not sure how you can justify that statement about 'most Chinese' you've met really seeing the Japanese as being more civilized. I can well believe most Chinese envy them their wealth, but I find it very hard to believe that they secretly feel in any way inferior to the Japanese in terms of their social development.

10 years 13 weeks ago
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Samm11:

porno magazines wouldnt bother me at all, while spitting, staring etc does. i dont think porn magazines can be called uncivilized behavior.

besides its really stupid to judge by a random show you once saw.

10 years 13 weeks ago
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mArtiAn:

Your statement speaks for itself.

10 years 13 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

I'd just like to make it clear again, that the piece I copy-pasted above was not written by me, since I don't have enough cultural insight into Japanese or Koreans for that matter. But I added it to point out that none of the East Asian nations feel inferior to eachother. They've developed their own brand of pride and superiority complex, and frictions are not from jealousy or resentment, but rather from challenging each other's world views. None of which are realistic, if you ask me.

10 years 13 weeks ago
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nicholasba:

Martian, thats actually the most blend thing they covered about Japan, i can assure you that there are way more  sex-related things that would shock a westerner. Fact is that since pornography is illegal here in china you wouldn't see it, anywhere, in any form, but that doesn't necessary mean that Chinese have our same christian set of values...Japan local religion is Shinto (in China is Taoism), buddhism came into both countries as a foreign religion and has been succesvly adapted to their personal needs and existing beliefs. That being said that japanese still have some pagan-like festivals where they even worship male and  female sex organs.

 

But apart from that I have found ironically that Japan society shows much more its Confucius influences than Mainland China...and this is also one aspect of what many Chinese people envy about Japan..

10 years 13 weeks ago
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mArtiAn:

  I don't know anything about Confucious so I can't comment about his influence here or abroad, though I have read a fair bit of Lao Zi's work and hope at least that his influence is still strong in Chinese culture. As for the question of pornography however I wasn't suggesting there was something immoral in it at all, on the contrary I think we've got it a bit more twisted back west with all the sexual guilt sewn into religion, I was simply saying that in comparing China and Japan in terms of their levels of 'civilized' behaviour, I find such things as spitting, staring and cutting lines as trifling in importance when compared with the fact that pornography can be found on sale on the same shelves as children's comics and in easy reach of young children. I find that disturbing to say the least.

10 years 13 weeks ago
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nicholasba:

sure i got ur point. Is all about perception i guess.

Lets make an example with criminality. Most people in italy wouldnt complain so much about Mafia, but instead they feel very unsafe for small criminality. 

For sure, in our christian morality sex has always been something dirty when is not related to marriage. Still now in Italy showing sex in tv is morally unacceptable in the same way legalizing prostitution is. But still an average kid when he reaches the consent age would have witnesses more than 1000 murders....something is wrong in our society as well

10 years 13 weeks ago
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mArtiAn:

  Couldn't agree more about western culture having its faults, I don't really differentiate and consider either as really being any better, it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. What was it Gandhi said about western civilization? Cheeky bugger.

10 years 13 weeks ago
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10 years 13 weeks ago
 
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Id go to taiwan. Can use the chinese i learned, its cheaper than China but much more covenient and civilized.

belle_watson:

Dear MIke, those are polite words for sure but from someone who lived in Taipei for a good while, I can tell you that it's not exactly true.

 

The weather is nicer there than in most parts of China but the Taiwanese are rapacious businesspeople, on a scale to put the mainlanders to shame.  In terms of paperwork, living, etc., it's exactly NOT more convenient.  The paperwork trail in Taiwan is a bloody mess and it gets worse by the day.   Taipei is interesting but seriously polluted as well.  The countryside, particularly up north is stunning.

 

And ESL jobs in Taiwan split two ways : either cram schools, which are where the majority of the foreigners are, or in the better uni's if one has the serious credentials.  The Beijing public transport system beats out the Taipei public transport by about 1,000 to 1.

 

And then there is the earthquake and typhoon factor, two factors which are not to be discounted lightly.  You can expect a tremor a week in Taipei and your flat will go rocking-and-rolling and in typhoon season, which just ended, you can be drenched and homebound for 3-4 days at a time.

 

The money is better than on the mainland but then again there are least 10,000 more thieving LTC owners out there than here.  A friend of mine worked for a prestigious Catholic high school and even there he encountered that kind of goings on.

 

If you want more insight, just PM me.

 

Hope you enjoyed Dalian.

10 years 13 weeks ago
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mike695ca:

hello! Dalian was amazing and thanks for the help. As for taiwan, as you have spent so much time there it would be foolish to argue, but I can say a few things. As I am not a teacher, i cant relate to that, but I do get the feeling that working in other feilds would be less cut throat, again im not sure but have dealt with the taiwanese in business on a few occasions. I just straigh up disagree on the public transportation front, but again i am looking from a different angle, I have never taken a bus in China and drive most places, so publib transportation for me is subway in city centers. And that also works to my convenience point. We were amazed how few people were out and about, sure at rush hour it was busy, but it was shocking how...availabke everything was. I never thought about how many people in China must not work, just hang out in public all day, in Taipei, they all seemed to be busy while I was there, which made everything convenient from traffic to restaurants to buyjng things. I really enjoyed it. Althouh i understand it would be crazy to argue thispoint with you assyou lived there and had to deal with the day to day conveniences or lack there of. The weather, well you got me there. I do live on the south China coast so im not immuneto the flooding and typhoons althouht it couldnt possibly be at that level. Anyways just saying!

10 years 13 weeks ago
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Shifu

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1th choice:  Hong Kong

2  Japan

3  Taiwan

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I was thinking about Singapore, the Philippines, Taiwan or possibly Thailand or Indonesia. 

 

 

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  I'd follow the plan I originally had before meeting my wife and go to Brazil. Plenty of work for an English teacher, plenty to see, plus I hear there's a place in the mountains of Peru that's great for spotting UFOs, which is like the Martian equivalent of train spotting. 

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If I could, I'd just return to my home country with my family. China is all windowdressing and keeping up appearances. I'd prefer to live in a stable country with a government and media that at least *tries* to treat people from all backgrounds with equal respect. Not openly favoring the rich, beautiful, powerful, national citizens and well-connected people. Who's my daddy? It really shouldn't matter. I'm skilled and competent, well-behaved and kind. THAT should matter! Sometimes it feels like this country is run by children who only care about their own immediate desires, and don't see consequences in the big picture. The Chinese word 想(xiang) means "to think", but the most common translation of 想 is want/would like... Thinking=wanting?

nicholasba:

better u go back to ur country 

10 years 13 weeks ago
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mArtiAn:

  Never made that connection between the uses of the word xiang, but it's an interesting observation.

10 years 13 weeks ago
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mike695ca:

you never made that connection because its not really true or fair. Lots of words in Chinese sound like they have double meanings but its based on situations. the proper word to stress want is 想要 xiang yao together, although not as common in speach unless it could be misunderstood for i think, the very opposite of them translating into the same idea. 想 can mean want, wish, and think based on the situation. Its like picking and choosing certain statistics to make a case for any argument you want.

10 years 13 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

You may be right. I just felt there might be a connection between how locals are focused on getting what they want, uncaring and indifferent to society or consequences, and the way xiang is used in language to mean both Think and Want. If I'm wrong, I'm glad you corrected me.

10 years 13 weeks ago
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Thailand because it includes Phuket which includes Patong. 

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10 years 13 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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Japan or HK. Still Asia, but clean and civilized.

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So in my case, all I need to work for my employer is a Internet connection and a coffee supply.

1) New-Zealand. Because living a no-fancy life in a garden shed by the pristine beach yet close to gorgeous mounta... volcanoes, on a remote island, is how I see my dream life now. I would have my gum boots to look after my garden when I would not be stuck on the computer. Or being surfing. Or trekking. Or fishing. Or hug trees. Or fixing my house after the last earthquake. I would not make sheep jokes.

2) Some Pacific Island with year-round tropical climate. Same as NZ, but I guess I would grow different stuffs in the garden.

3) Australia. A bit too desertic to my taste, feel a bit uneasy with the politics there, cities are too big... But still nice nature, beaches, lifestyle, I guess I can find mid-sized towns. For my garden, sounds dodgy. But cheap solar energy year-round !
4) Vietnam, in the countryside around Hanoi. Learned the language for years, lots of great & colorful friends there, feels like home, climate is fine for me, food too, great arty scene.

MissA:

Most of us don't live in the desert, Monkey! And most of us don't like our politics, either, to be perfectly honest. 

10 years 13 weeks ago
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DrMonkey:

The Mad Max series wasn't a documentary ?! Who knew ^^ Yes, the South East coast looks quite green indeed. Somehow, savanna, desert, beaches, eucalyptus and all kind of strange animals is what 'Australia' brings to my mind. Stereotypes, here we are ^^  Thanks for the correction, I've much to learn about Australia :)

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Italy.  Venezia will forever linger in my heart.......  dunno if it answers the question of 'where to work' but it is my answer of where the best times of my life were....  best times as a married man.   

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A:  "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "S
A: "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "Shenzhen agent can connect you with an employer, who's authorized to hire waigouren ... and can sponsor Z visa." It's not like every 10th person you meet in Shenzhen's hood can sponsor work visa ...  The only way to change from student to labourer visa is just a regular way by: 1. Finding an employer, who'll apply for an Invitation letter; 2. Exit China and apply for Z visa in your home country's Chinese embassy; 3. Enter China in 30-days after Z visa was stamped into your travelling instrument ...As I am aware, you won't be able to switch to Working permit by remaining in China....,so make ready for a return to your home .... -- icnif77