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Q: Im back again, visa visa visa issues
Hello again
So Im back again looking for advice
I signed a contract with an agent last August when I was in IRELAND, (when in IRELAND I STILL HAD 2 MONTHS LEFT ON RESIDENT PERMIT), the agent said no problem " My company can process your visa" , but they could not process
they were a go between for me an a kindergarten
long and short of it is, I signed contract with agent stating her company as my employer, but they couldnt process resident permit, but the actual kindergarten could, so they did, but I never knew that was the situation, the only contract I ever saw or signed was with the agent with their name on the contract
now I want out of the contract and am quiet willing to pay their get out of jail fee of 1000 USD, but the kindergarten are now saying " NO WAY JOSE", we have your visa and we will not issue the release letters until end of their contract, but i never was shown their contract.
what to do , i signed contract with agent, how can the kindergarten hold me to a contract i never saw or signed
do i go to the PSB or to SAFEA with this drama
please help
thanks
5 years 49 weeks ago in Visa & Legalities - China
Simple go to SAFEA as the PSB no longer handles these matters until SAFEA tells you to go there, bring a Chinese friend who speaks English like an HSK5 level because your problem is complex, you'll need more details, bring all the proof you have and make a list and short story written on paper to practice what you'll say with your chinese friend before you go to SAFEA, have a warm up.
Good Luck.
Simple go to SAFEA as the PSB no longer handles these matters until SAFEA tells you to go there, bring a Chinese friend who speaks English like an HSK5 level because your problem is complex, you'll need more details, bring all the proof you have and make a list and short story written on paper to practice what you'll say with your chinese friend before you go to SAFEA, have a warm up.
Good Luck.
I agree with Iron above:
Dial SAFEA and explain the matter to Gov.
Contract you signed is invalid 'cause agent (which cannot legally employ laowai) cannot offer the Contract to foreigner not even in the name of the Kindergarten. Such Contract is misleading, too. It should be clearly noted on the Contract, 'you will work for (any) School for which placement agent MUST hold an employment agreement/Contract.
IMO, you shouldn't settle for ''paying Contract's stated fine to get out of it'' ...
In worst case, you should prepare yourself for 'China exit' and new School's employment Contract.
'add-it': SAFEA's weblink we have here is 'Provincial SAFEA address and contact numbers' and you will most likely get in contact with English speaking SAFEA's agent.'
Enter 'SAFEA' in search above for Provincial SAFEA web link.
ironman510:
There should also be a desk for Q/A at SAFEA, I never trust phone calls, I walk in with my game face..
icnif77:
I had good experience with phone calls, only. The matter at School changed in a heartbeat after the phone call to SAFEA, and that's how I knew School probably got call from Gov.
RandomGuy:
The "contract exit fine" can no be enforced if the employer (in this case the agent) can not provide the employee with legal documents (visa) required to work in China anyway. Basically the mployer has already breached the contract by failing to provide the employee with a working visa/working permit, so they have no right to ask for the exit fine. Also the contract is null because of this, it isn't recognized by legal authorities, so you can just sign another contract and there is nothing the nullified contract's employer can do about it.
This seems familiar.
Is this the same situation you were in last year with your 'over a barrel thread' or did you find yourself back in the same mess again but with a different agent?
Because if it's still the same barrel you're been bent over your legal situation won't have changed since you asked the question last year. If you couldn't do what you wanted to do then, well you probably still can't now.
If you're now over a new but identical barrel then I'm guessing it will play out the same way your last barrel session played out.
Stiggs:
Icnif, do you happen to know if SAFEA can recommend a good place to buy lube?
) is enough ... !"
Most, if not, all contracts in China have ambiguous clauses. All of these contracts, if taken to a western lawyer, would be labeled "proceed at your own peril." A western judge would question you as to why you signed. Even the best contracts give the Chinese a way out without to much cost. As for your situation. Someone in China will be willing to hire you, and produce the documents just like "...her company as my employer,..." So don't worry too much.
The kindergarten's mouth is full of sh*t if you ask me. They can not hold you to their contract because there has already been breach of contract on their side when the agent failed to provide you with the working visa / working permit, if anything they are the ones who should pay you the fine here. You can just walk away and sign a contract with another school, preferably one that actually can provide you with a working visa / working permit, and there is absolutely nothing either the kindergarten of the agent can do about it. Z-visas last no more than a month, you can just wait until it expires and find another job.
Stiggs:
But OP needs the release letter from the kindergarten for the OP to walk away and get another job. Unless the PSB or whoever can fix the situation.
Shining_brow:
Stiggs - the kindergarten is legally required to cough up the release letter anyway. There is no "we won't do it" blackmail crap. The best they can do is hold it up the full 30 days.
And, if OP is involving SAFEA, I doubt they'd really want to get on their bad side over it (cos, they could easily lose the right to hire future foreigners).
Question, do you have a degree (authenticated) and all the necessary docs?
dyanisis:
Yes degree has been notarized/authenticated
tefl original but not notarized
police clearance can be got here
All in order
Englteachted:
So why agree to sign the contract with the agent as opposed to the school? That's a red flag
I wasnt told anything about the kindergarten at all, i was told we are the employer we can take care of your visa, i signed a contract with BETTER ENGLISH as the employer, 1st I heard of 21st century kindergarten as the working visa sponsor was last week, all along it was we pay you, we did your visa....its us us us us......so I tell them last week I am giving 7 weeks notice to finish on June 15th ( my old man is not well, and cant travel home until wife gets her visa, and one kid has to get passport updated)
Can they cancel visa, without any signed contract by me, ???
They got it done without my knowledge/signature they must have some clout
All i want is a genuine release letter and move on for september and be done with them, agent is now leaning towards the kindy and giving me direction to talk to them and she is sort of washing her hands of it
Also saying they wont pay me ?????
Advice advice advice
It's really hard to give good advice or to know what to do in situations like this because ...China. Who knows what connections the kindergarten has and what's really going on. Actual rules don't necessarily apply.
What I think is that the kindergarten probably can cancel your visa. They issued it, if you leave they can and will cancel it.
Options you might consider though are...
Bluff them. Tell the agent you have asked your embassy for advice and they say that the contract you signed is valid and they asked you to keep them informed what happens. Not in a threatening way because that can backfire, more in a 'can you help me out here, what should I do' way, sort of dropping it in conversation. Also that you've been talking to people on all the major ESL websites asking for advice. Maybe the thought of an embassy getting involved in the dodgy dealings of the shady recruiter and kindergarten and internet exposure that could hurt recruitment will get them talking to each other and deciding they don't need that kind of exposure.
Find a better job. No agents this time, a proper school licensed to hire foreigners. If you have the degree etc it should be easy. Tell them your situation and see what they can do for you. A safea licensed school with a decent reputation and connections can cut through a lot of dodgy schools corrupt bullshit with a phone call. I've seen it happen. If they want to hire you they can probably sort this out easily.
You might find yourself in the position where you just need to stick it out for the extra few months.In fact I'd say there's a good chance you will. I don't know your Dad's situation - hope it's not too bad, I've been there man and know what it's like - but if you do need to stay and see out your contract do it with good grace and don't give the kindergarten any reason to fu*k with you. Leave on reasonable terms because who needs enemies?
But again dude,start working now on finding a better job with a legit employer because you're going to need a stable visa situation and income. A shitty recruiter getting visas through a kindergarten is dodgy and I'm sure they know it. A legit school can probably tell them exactly how many ways they're breaking the law and who will come knocking on their door tomorrow if they don't give you that release letter.
Good luck, hope it works out mate.
