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Posts: 2878

Shifu

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Q: Is it really a double standard?

On the other thread about why people are leaving the issue came up from some users that there is a double standard on this forum where expats can be critical of China but that locals can't be critical of expats/the west.

 

It's a good topic and I think it warrants further discussion.

 

My own feeling on that, is that it's NOT in any way a double standard and let me explain why. This is not a public institution of justice that has a duty to weigh and balance and hear all sides equally. This is just a topical internet forum, and the topic is asking/answering questions for expats in China. The person that hates expats or the west in general doesn't need to be here. There are choosing to enter a space where they might see things they find offensive and attempting to dictate the rules for what discussion can happen there.

 

What if this was like a Game of Thrones fan forum or something? You'd see posts after every new release saying "this episode sucks" "downhill since season 3" and those are all valid opinions on the topic even though they are negative. If some moderator decided that anything other than glowingly positive statements get deleted/banned, that would be an example of a double standard. Someone speaking as a fan with interest in the franchise and characters can have a negative opinion on some aspect and still be both on topic and contributing to the dicussion.

 

But somebody who shows up posting "game of thrones is gay ur all fags" or "xena warrior princess kicks game of thrones ass" or whatever that's not an example of adding to discussion of the topic. It would be kind of absurd to say that people who aren't fans of something should have equal voice on a fan forum in the name of free speech.

 

So to me the anti-west/anti-foreigner trolls are the same things. This is a forum for expats so someone who is anti-expat is not entitled to a say in what goes on here. There is this knee-jerk response to feel like because we are more "privileged" than the insecure person who believes that every western man in china is a bum looking to steal women that we need to cater to that insecure person's feelings. That's wrong. There must be tons of diaosi forums where that guy can go blame his problems on westerners to his heart's content in front of a sympathetic audience. Patriotic locals are not a vulnerable class of people in China whose delicate sensibilities must be catered to by the evil colonial-minded westerners. Our responsibility is to not be dicks and go seek out forums for lonely local men and insult them and play to their insecurities to sow strife. We are not harming them by having discussions that may make them feel bad, they are choosing to seek out those discussions in order to derail them.

 

This probably isn't a good place for a lonely young local guy to visit. And it's not because we are so evil and correct to be racists or are better than them or whatever...it's because a lot of the venting here is by western guys who are routinely confronted with locals calling their wives and girlfriends race traitors by groups of young men, guys who are yelled at and insulted in taxis and restaurants. Those western guys need a place to vent too, and this is their place. So if a member of that demographic of person the western guys are complaining about wants to be here the onus is on them to be thick-skinned and level headed about it. Not on the existing forum members to keep it to themselves out of respect to the most easily offended person who might choose to show up here.

 

I'm pretty mild myself and have a very comfortable life here and and engaging career and MBA program, nor do I date local girls and experience the xenophobia firsthand. I don't really have any problems with China or local people. But I can empathize with the people who do. When someone is complaining about how insecure local men can be towards them/their families, it's not because they are some victorian-era colonialist who thinks they are all horrid beasts. It's because some guy or worse a group just called his girlfriend a race traitor to her face in front of him and that is very upsetting. That's not some debatable, petty "microagression" either. Of course that doesn't apply to everyone but it's common enough to be a problem and it must feel very frustrating to be told you aren't allowed to say that because it might offend someone. They aren't monsters or racists they just get frustrated and use this as a place to seek support.

7 years 51 weeks ago in  Shopping - Zhengzhou

 
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Emperor

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I don't quite see what your getting at (probably because you put it in the 'Zhengzhou/shopping' category, and that makes everything confusing Tongue

 

I don't think people are leaving (or not coming back) because of this. Nor do I think the mods have gone out of their way to harmonise such posts.

 

I see a significant difference between attacking situations and people, and being racist about  it or abusive (especially towards Chinese members who try to defend their 'homeland'). I also note that probably all threads about "China vs USA' remain (though quickly get downvoted). Yes, a thick skin is required - but the posts tend to remain fairly civil (ie, don't lower to a mere slagging match of insults). We've had some good stouches, but only occasionally does it become a personal attack... and those ones are almost never from Chinese (or even towards Chinese - unless it's a hidden one).

 

I recall from a few years ago, posts such as "Why are Chinese so stupid" would hang around a little while, then a grumpy would come in and remove. I'd call that racist (nationalist??) Similarly, "Why are Americans so stupid" wouldn't go down well either. But, either way, I don't think that's why long-time regulars have left... I think it's just life (as Hulk and others posted).

 

For Grumpy, the bigger question is - why aren't new members coming, posting, and hanging around. Again, I don't think it's this 'double standard' you're thinking of.

royceH:

I've posted that question.  Both of them.

Still waiting for the best answer.

7 years 51 weeks ago
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ambivalentmace:

with so much available on the internet, how do you get new members, i recall i accidentally found this website looking for a chinese forum on visas 6 years ago.

 

is the number of new workers coming to the site going down because of less jobs?

is the job ads less than last year?

how does echina get the word out for new members?

 

I dont know any of the answers but i suppose it's a good place to start.

7 years 50 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

And good questions, too!

7 years 50 weeks ago
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expatlife26:

haha I always put random categories on

 

Anyway this isn't so much about how the site is going downhill but just a philosophical discussion on whether it is a double standard to allow expats to bash china but not locals to bash the west.

 

My view is that it isn't, because as a topical forum someone who just dislikes westerners being in China/the west in general doesn't belong here in the first place. In the same way that a Dr Quinn medicine woman fan who hates babylon 5 doesn't get an equal voice to bash the show in a babylon 5 fan forum.

 

That doesn't mean we all have to have the same opinion. I like Scots a lot I think he's a smart, decent guy I may disagree with some of this conclusions but I think he speaks them earnestly so good on him. But somebody shows up like "Are foreigners ruining good china?" then yeah that can go without us being hypocrites.

7 years 50 weeks ago
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7 years 51 weeks ago
 
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Posts: 7715

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I don't quite see what your getting at (probably because you put it in the 'Zhengzhou/shopping' category, and that makes everything confusing Tongue

 

I don't think people are leaving (or not coming back) because of this. Nor do I think the mods have gone out of their way to harmonise such posts.

 

I see a significant difference between attacking situations and people, and being racist about  it or abusive (especially towards Chinese members who try to defend their 'homeland'). I also note that probably all threads about "China vs USA' remain (though quickly get downvoted). Yes, a thick skin is required - but the posts tend to remain fairly civil (ie, don't lower to a mere slagging match of insults). We've had some good stouches, but only occasionally does it become a personal attack... and those ones are almost never from Chinese (or even towards Chinese - unless it's a hidden one).

 

I recall from a few years ago, posts such as "Why are Chinese so stupid" would hang around a little while, then a grumpy would come in and remove. I'd call that racist (nationalist??) Similarly, "Why are Americans so stupid" wouldn't go down well either. But, either way, I don't think that's why long-time regulars have left... I think it's just life (as Hulk and others posted).

 

For Grumpy, the bigger question is - why aren't new members coming, posting, and hanging around. Again, I don't think it's this 'double standard' you're thinking of.

royceH:

I've posted that question.  Both of them.

Still waiting for the best answer.

7 years 51 weeks ago
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ambivalentmace:

with so much available on the internet, how do you get new members, i recall i accidentally found this website looking for a chinese forum on visas 6 years ago.

 

is the number of new workers coming to the site going down because of less jobs?

is the job ads less than last year?

how does echina get the word out for new members?

 

I dont know any of the answers but i suppose it's a good place to start.

7 years 50 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

And good questions, too!

7 years 50 weeks ago
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expatlife26:

haha I always put random categories on

 

Anyway this isn't so much about how the site is going downhill but just a philosophical discussion on whether it is a double standard to allow expats to bash china but not locals to bash the west.

 

My view is that it isn't, because as a topical forum someone who just dislikes westerners being in China/the west in general doesn't belong here in the first place. In the same way that a Dr Quinn medicine woman fan who hates babylon 5 doesn't get an equal voice to bash the show in a babylon 5 fan forum.

 

That doesn't mean we all have to have the same opinion. I like Scots a lot I think he's a smart, decent guy I may disagree with some of this conclusions but I think he speaks them earnestly so good on him. But somebody shows up like "Are foreigners ruining good china?" then yeah that can go without us being hypocrites.

7 years 50 weeks ago
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7 years 51 weeks ago
 
Posts: 19814

Emperor

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I'm still reading it.....Give a week or twoangel.

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7 years 51 weeks ago
 
Posts: 7178

Emperor

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Double standards... Yes.

A researcher asked a question on here a while back. A scottish researcher, studying in Ireland, who was married to a chinese guy. Wow. Some people made assumptions. They assumed a Chinese guy was married to a white Brit. Boom.

Racism 101. Its ok for an old fat western guy to find happiness with a fit slim chinese woman... But wow.. No way should a white woman marry a non white guy.

It comes down to alpha status. To be rejected by white women (for good reason... Subtle madness)..then to see a white woman reject white men. Head explosions all round.

These stupid white knight guys need to get over it. They need to put love and partnership above conquests. The white knights are putting me in a bad light with regards to the Chinese opinion of us. They should take their conquests home with them to show their mates how alpha they are.

And leave us real guys and girls to get on with our happy lives in china.

Nowt worse than an expat who fell for the passport trick Smile

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7 years 50 weeks ago
 
Posts: 5156

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At first I would have disagreed but you convinced me.

expatlife26:

the last one was a joke. Just teasing icnif because he always bashes the US govt I said the real icnif was seized by the NSA and forced to join the china scam watch which I think is just one of those BS sites. Now if he posts any nonsense we can just say he's the imposter. Pretty clever, eh?

7 years 50 weeks ago
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icnif77:

Watch yourself! I am friendly with China-po...I'll call my SWAT team on you

 

Imposter? Man, I am for real. I am not religious. I believe I was born like that. In other words, it isn't my fault! Ever for anything! Manipulated the Law few times toward my advantage. Once or twice in USA! Land of (my) Law!

You all cry how my Englo sucks...OK, I agree! Now tell me, how could one with my writing abilities write made-up stories and advices on China Co's and Gov.?

It's a description of the real thing happened to me. That's all it is, and if I think poster could use it in her/his example, I hit the keyboard.

Every trader bashes US Gov., 'cause mastards manipulate the chart's technicals ...However, ''USD' train is at the end of the Gov.'s rope'', 'end' being understood as 'several years'. Get bullion!angel

7 years 50 weeks ago
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expatlife26:

You want proof? Take a very good look at this photograph.

 


 

One of these two brothers grew up to be the man who sold out the REAL icnif to the CSW...the other serves on the trilateral commission. Now THAT is newz u can uze.

7 years 50 weeks ago
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icnif77:

I got an excellent balm against pimpls! I will offer it in retail with my eChina-tities jackets.

7 years 50 weeks ago
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expatlife26:

hahaha have you actually gotten a jacket or do they still owe you a bunch of them?

 

Damn eChina-titties and their phantom loyalty gifts!

7 years 50 weeks ago
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icnif77:

I seek an advice on my pending e-tities gift from China lawyer. Just because I can't read characters to peek into their law norms.

7 years 50 weeks ago
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7 years 50 weeks ago
 
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A: Your potential employer is right! Demand for Medical exam before
A:Your potential employer is right! Demand for Medical exam before granting Z visa is to make sure, you won't be entering China in any abnormal and harmful to others condition.Few days after your arrival to China, you'll be required to complete another ME ... If ME in China will be OK, you'll get a Residence permit stamp into your book some 10-days afterwards. Imagine, you're an employer, who can sponsor my entry and work in China, but after my arrival to China would be found I carry some sickness, which would prevent Chinese .gov to issue a Residence permit. Rule is: Z visa should be converted into Residence permit in 30-days after entry to China.    So, my advice is:"Complete ME in your home country and forward medical results to your employer".Z visa grant will follow shortly afterwards. Employer is not wrong at their demand for the pre-arrival ME from your home country hospital.   -- icnif77