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Posts: 14

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Q: Is it really worth living and working (as a teacher) in China?

I'm getting my bachelors degree in about a year. My question is, is it really worth working here as an English teacher? I know of a lot of foreign students who seem to have transitioned from being students to teaching and it seems to have worked out pretty well for them. I have tried looking for jobs in China, in my field, that is but i doubt anything might come up. I'm studying Agronomy by the way. The reason I've been considering becoming a teacher is because, lets face it, a lot of students who study here in Chinese probably don't know half of what they are doing, some people don't even attend classes and when it comes to exams, well, lets just say people have their ways. My classes consist of a lot of practical work so i have to attend, most of them anyway, but, to be completely honest i feel like i have wasted four years here, when i could have been doing something else with my life. I've been at home (i rent an apartment with my boyfriend) for about a month now because i don't have any classes, my schedule is very very flexible so most of the time I'm just home. In the first year or so, i tried to study on my own but i simply gave up because i couldn't keep up, I'm the only foreign student in my class, they won't slow down for me. Now I'm considering teaching English, the pay looks good, and the conditions seem fair. Is it worth giving up a bachelors degree for? Well, not giving up per say, but more of putting it on hold until i find something better. Would teaching really be something to consider? I'm already studying for an ESL teaching certificate online, just to keep my options open. Any suggestions?

Thanks

11 years 2 weeks ago in  Teaching & Learning - China

 
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  It's worth it if you enjoy it. I think in any part of the world 'teaching' is a vocation, you rarely see a school teacher driving a Ferrari. Getting an ESL certificate's a doddle, getting a job's a doddle, so give it a go and then you'll know. You certainly won't waste four years finding out.

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11 years 2 weeks ago
 
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What mArtiAn said, teaching is a vocation, if you don't love teaching the location is irrelevant.

 

You won't get rich, but if you get the right contract you should be able to live quite comfortably. However, you have to offset against this the considerable hassles of living in China (which appear to be worse in the tier 1 cities, at least going by what those on this forum say it does).

 

However, the reason I'm still here is family, my wife's family are here and I have really put down roots in this area. If I were to look at teaching objectively then I probably wouldn't come to China. Financially Dubai is still the best bet and if you want an exotic location, Seoul or Japan are just as exotic as China but have all the modern amenities of 'the west' and a more 'western' outlook to work and life in general, or so I'm told, I haven't been to either yet.

.

 

EDIT: Just re-read your OP, NO DON't give up your degree, certainly not to become a teacher. To be a legal teacher you need a degree, without it your opening yourself up to all the scams and cons.

 

:

That should be the right answer, hopefully she, the op, will follow it. Giving up on the BA it's a mistake indeed,. Teaching it's a vocation.

11 years 2 weeks ago
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11 years 2 weeks ago
 
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Where are you from? 

You must try it to know if it is worthwhile for you. Maybe you can help teach in public schools as a volunteer to see how you feel about teaching. Maybe you can tutor other students. You can read about China and other places forever but you don't know until you go. 

xunliang:

Trying reading the question. She's in China. She's studying in a class with Chinese people. Where did you think she was? How the hell did you get 2 thumbs up? Does no one read the questions?

11 years 2 weeks ago
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bill8899:

I hope you will consider accepting my apology for misreading the question. To be honest I was unsure of OP's location. I apologise to anyone I offended in any way. I assure you I meant no harm. I pray that all may continue their day unburdened by thoughts of my mistake, lack of reading skills or misapprehension.

 

Maybe I have two votes up because two viewers felt sorry for me?

 

11 years 2 weeks ago
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11 years 2 weeks ago
 
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Well everyone seems to have ignored the fact that you're actually in China at the moment and are advising you to either come here or go to Dubai instead.

The problem you're going to face is that you have a degree from a Chinese university which means you have no way of even faking the 2 years work experience outside of China needed for a work permit.  Of course there are ways around it if you're employer knows what they're doing.  

In my opinion it's a bit of a waste though.  Your classes are all in Chinese so I'm guessing your Chinese is decent so it would be a waste to have to just teach English. Of course if it's something you think you'd enjoy or would be good at then by all means do it, and of course the pay can be pretty decent.  

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11 years 2 weeks ago
 
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To be honest, I am coming to the (personal) conclusion that being a teacher is not so rewarding anymore. It is a job for the selfless. Are you selfless? No matter where you go, unless you run your own school, you will always be at the bottom of the income chain (i taught in China, Thailand, Costa Rica, USA, Spain and Switzerland). Yes I got to see the world and it's cultures. But at what price? I am teaching students knowledge! That knowledge will be used to make more money that you ever can as a teacher. And the world is about money, unfortunately not so much intelligence and knowledge. It is clear to me that you can be a complete moron and still make money, but you have to be educated to teach for no money. You have to ask yourself the question: are you willing to sacrifice your personal wealth for a "rewarding job" or are you willing to get out and make your own cash! I used to be selfless and it made me poor! Sorry my outlook is dark for humanity: so I got out and am running  my own business now, much happier than before as I can actually afford things I want to do and see! So think twice not to be a teacher in China, but to be a teacher in general! 

 

:

Thanks for your blunt honesty. It's good to see different points of view about teaching.

11 years 2 weeks ago
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11 years 2 weeks ago
 
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Sort of what the others said - however...

 

Teaching can make money, if you know what you're doing! Working for someone else is usually not the way to do that. Teaching just based on some dodgey ESL certification (particularly an online one) with only an (unrelated) bachelor's degree is not the way to do it.

 

It's a vocation.. so, you need to consider if you're willing to put in the hard yards to get to a good place with it. And that will basically mean investing quite a few more years in educating yourself. The best payers in this country are the international schools - but they require qualifications and experience - do you have that? (no). Do you want to get that??

 

So many teachers seem to just stop with their CELTA or similar, and their BA... those are never going to bring in the big money! (if you can teach Maths or Economics, or Physics/Chemistry, you can do ok!)

 

Also, just look around at who drives what... do you see many school teachers driving BMW's?? Or Audi's? How about university lecturers? Or professors?? Once you answer that, you get an idea of where you need to be to earn the cash!

 

And then, there's which city are you in... I tried to start up a school where we were charging only 25RMB/class.. and people said it was too much! Now, I work at a place where some students said 6.5million RMB isn't too much for (OS) education.... so, they'll be the ones who will pay a lot more for tutoring Smile

 

So - in the end, base level teachers make about 5-6K per month... good qualified and experienced teachers make 20-30 (+) K per month...

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11 years 2 weeks ago
 
Posts: 258

Shifu

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As Shining Brow mentioned, if you are highly qualified (as in having teacher certification in your home country and a master's degree or above) you can do quite well here if you choose the right program. I make nearly as much now as an English teacher than I did as a teacher in the States, so I've managed to save up quite a bit. I strongly recommend you go on for a graduate degree before pursuing a teaching career. The long-term benefits will outweigh any inconveniences this may present.

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9 years 36 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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For me it is.  I am semi retired. Tried to retire at 50 but got bored. I came to China for to get married then found a new career. They would never let me teach in Canada. My degree is in Commerce. My experience is mostly business. I found I liked teaching. Apparently I have the transferable skills to do a good job. I am also a people person.  If your going to do this for money in China. You should ask a couple of questions like Why and Why?  I think it is a good way for a person to get some work experience dealing with people; the cross cultural setting is a bonus. But to live?  I suppose that would really depend a lot on where you are from. Half the countries in the world are worse off than China. A degree is good because during the time you are obtaining it you are exposed to many ideas and opportunities you would not have if you completed only your high school.

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9 years 36 weeks ago
 
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If you already hold a western BA,you can give up your Chinese BA.

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9 years 36 weeks ago
 
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Do you live in China?  Living here will put your health and sanity at risk.  Many places are unhealthy to breath and drink.  It can only get worse in the future.  Are your personal goals worth that risk?  Only you can answer this question. The teaching atmosphere for foreigners is full of problems.  Honestly, I see little reason anyone would want to teach here if they have the credentials to teach elsewhere.  If you want to come to China for adventure, adventure you will certainly find.  But if you want to come to start a life, IMO there are far better options.

icnif77:

That's million years old thread. Things changed (to better) in the meantime.

9 years 36 weeks ago
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xinyuren:

Perhaps you can show me how things have changed for the better?  My statement is based on today's news, not the past.

9 years 36 weeks ago
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Eorthisio:

icnif77: LOL, Nothing is improving for FT in China, cost of life is rising but salaries tend to drop. Don't get me started on the rising xenophobia and the laowai bashing.

9 years 36 weeks ago
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9 years 36 weeks ago
 
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......................

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9 years 36 weeks ago
 
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No.

It isnt worth living anywhere though, so you might as well just kill yourself now.

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9 years 36 weeks ago
 
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Warning for all ESL Teachers coming to Changsha, China of using Work in China/Dragon Charm Agency!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Warning for all ESL Teachers coming to teach at kindergartens/nursery schools in Changsha or other places in China using an agency called Work in China or Dragon Charm. It is the same agency which keeps changing its name. If you decide to teach in China using this agency, then I must warn you. I am one of the former ESL teachers who had very bad experience with the people of this agency. I worked very hard at King International Kindergarten in Changsha throughout the whole period of my contract and, in the end, I was not paid for the last month. They also didn’t reimburse my insurance as stated in the contract. I used different means to convince Roger, supposedly the main manager of the agency (but in fact, it is very difficult to say who the main manager is), to pay me what he owes me, but all attempts were in vain.

 

I asked then for help the Police of Changsha, the leadership as well as the owner of King Kindergarten, and the parents of my children’s  group, who all tried their best to force him to pay me, but he didn’t care about anything. Their all gave me lots of support which I will never forget. 

 

When Roger and one of his assistants arrived at the airport a few hours before my departure to hand over my money after being forced by the main boss of all Wanying Kindergartens and the director of King, he wanted me to sign a letter full of lies which I couldn't accept and sign at all. He then started very aggressively to shout at Mrs. Isabel who is one of the parents of King, who was there to monitor the situation and be my support. In the end, I had to protect her from his aggressive shouting. Apart from that he and one of the workers of the agency stole my statement which I prepared in advance for him to sign which simply says that Roger paid me 5200 rmb which cover July salary and insurance money, and declares that there is nothing else to pay on the part of the agency in the future. I think it was a fair statement. So, he stole it with my signature and without paying me anything - in front of kindergarten parent and security cameras. So, it can be considered as theft.

 

Regarding the insurance reimbursement. They first told me that they do not remember that I gave them money for insurance. When I brought a document signed by Roger which clearly says that they deducted insurance from my salary and will this sum reimburse at the end of my stay, then they tried another tricks telling me that I have no right to get it back. When I several times asked for the receipt of my insurance, Mona (one of the workers) told me that she doesn't know anything about my insurance. I wanted to see a doctor in Changsha but I couldn’t. I kept being sick since I didn’t have any insurance number, card or receipt. So, I think that they even didn’t pay any insuruance and just took my money into their pockets.

 

I think enough is enough. This kind of behavior isabsolutely unacceptable. I will be not surprised if the Wanying Kindergarten chain and other kindergartens will stop collaborating with this agency in the future. Roger laughed when I told him that I will report him and the whole agency of doing illegal things, breaking immigration laws, forcing teachers to do illegal things, promising them that work permit will be prepared upon arrival in China etc. 

 

I have enough evidence against them such as emails, voice records, sms, documents etc which I started collecting long time ago on recommendation of some foreign teachers who told me that the agency is very bad as they played with so many of them dirty games similar to what happened to me later. By the way on the Internet you can see already bad comments about this agency.

 

In addition to that, I can also say that some of the agency people have very poor English which often caused serious problems in communication if they didn’t understand what the teachers said. To mention is also the fact that I several times during my contract time discovered mistakes in my salary and electricity/water bills. I always had feelings that Mona or somebody else tried to cheat me. When I mentioned that there are mistakes there, they made corrections, but I don’t want to think of what would have happened if hadn’t mentioned it.

 

I hereby ask all former ISL teachers who also had bad experience with this agency, no matter what the current name was, to share their experience in order to warn all future ISL teachers of using this agency.

 

I am not giving up, I am going to continue my “fight” in diplomatic way because it is not only about my money but also about the principle. Somebody must stop these people of doing such bad things like cheating, playing tricks and stealing. I will fight for fairness and truth. I will fight against darkness which must be defeated. The world cannot work like this agency. Bad, rude and ruthless people must be punished.

 

So, please, do not trust this Agency!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They lie and cheat people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!You will lose a lot of money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

If you do so, then you do it at your own risk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

dongbeiren:

How does this relate to the topic of the thread again? 

9 years 30 weeks ago
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9 years 30 weeks ago
 
Posts: 458

Shifu

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No. Unless you are a mad sinophile, just pick any other country in East Asia. China is a miserable, fifth rate country with a self-serving population. If I could go back in time and warn myself away from here, I would in a heartbeat.  

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9 years 30 weeks ago
 
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China isn't good carreer potential for anybody. You won't learn any useful skills, probably not in university here either. Most people with a lick of sense leave after their one-year teaching contract expires, or even sooner. Those of use who don't are still here for alternate reasons. Either a western company is doing business here and you got assigned to China, or we have to stay for a relationship and got funneled into the bogus teaching industry. Don't let the money fool you: It's not that easy, and you don't save up for pensions or anything meaningful, so it's a net loss in the long run. If you are young, get out of China before it rubs off on you.

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9 years 30 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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It's definitely not worth giving up your BA for - any decent legal teaching job will require you to have a BA as a minimum. If not, it is probably a dodgy school and is doing something shady like making fake certificates etc. As for whether teaching is worth it in and of itself, for most people it's a good one year experience to travel, study a new language and get some classroom experience (though usually in a de-professionalized role). A lot of people dig the lifestyle. There are people who can make teaching work into more of a career however.

 

I am 3 years out of getting my BA and I'm seeing whether or not I can swing it. It's certainly not easy. Don't expect real benefits like pension or acceptable health insurance. Working at a language mill will get you nowhere. Uni work is cushy but the pay is low. The best bet is either to get a real qualification back home that will allow you to work at an international school or get a better teaching job. Otherwise, if you can find well paying private work in addition to a contract at a Uni/public school you can do quite well for yourself. This takes time, however, so don't expect anything too fast. If you can develop more specialized teaching skills such as the ability to teach SAT/TOEFL/IELTS there will be better opportunities available as being able to teach these pays better than language teaching and can be useful for finding work back home later.  If you don't get your BA, your only option will be to work at a shady low-paying language mill with no benefits and just enough money to get by and maybe do some budget traveling. I do know people who make 30,000+ rmb a month from teaching so you can do quite well for yourself.  I have saved enough to buy a new car in the last year without compromising lifestyle from a Uni. job combined with private SAT/TOEFL training and some English tutoring. 

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9 years 30 weeks ago
 
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Honestly, no its not. (Why we all posting on the necro post btw?).

 

If you stay here a couple of years, that is enough normally to get whatever you are after. Men usually stay here longer for ONE thing and ONE thing only... Chinese women (their wives or maybe if they have family). Unless they are some weird sociopath... 

 

If you move into another field to help your career, then I would say it wouldn't hurt your opportunities but if you teach ESL too long... how are you going to explain that to your future boss? "I taught kidz ESL for 7 years, can I has dis nice job in accounting plz?"

 

One or two years is understandable, makes it seem like you wanted to see the world, maybe learn a language or gain some cultural experience. But keep in mind, the whole world is starting to connect China/Chinese people with negative adjectives.

 

Cheaters, liars, thieves, loud, unruly, uncivilized, uncaring, loathsome, selfish, childish and they may associate this outlook with you. 

 

 

 

 

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9 years 30 weeks ago
 
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If you are a young single guy without a student loan to repay you can have a blast for a year or two before getting bored. Since you cannot collect a pension nor retire in China with truly permanent residence (not tied to a Chinese spouse) teaching here is really a dead end job unless you start your own tutoring business. Also, foreign teachers in China are the lowest paid expats in the country. So if you like it - start up your own biz and forget about teaching.

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9 years 30 weeks ago
 
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I know a number of teachers who are earning 20K+ per month (after tax) - with some over 30K (and maybe up to 60 if they're cards are played right, and doing research or other stuff.  Often, they only 'work' for about 16-18 hours per week. They're at respectable places. Minimum level of qualification is about master's degree..

 

personally, I'm in a similar boat as them, and finishing a masters' degree, and might go onto the doctorate. I have plenty of time off, and live in a tier 1/2 city (I don't know - I heard there's only 4 T1 cities... but this is pretty similar). Not a lot of other places where I can have a similar lifestyle... (I'm lazy Laughing out loud) ESL 'teaching' is easy here. And the other places in the world have a lot of competition (I'm looking at you, Europe!!) And if I did get to there, I'd lose half my pay just to merely survive, and the other half to live fairly ok... (as against, I save about 70% of my pay, and STILL live fairly well  here!) If I was really after the money, I could make a ton (although, obviously, there are far better industries for this)

icnif77:

'meiyou' EU!

School needs to fill 'million' papers for non-EU WP. School might go into all 'apply for WP' thingy for 'highly educated' FT.

I was scooping individual Schools in Spain, Portugal and Italy, but with slim replies; as Non-native English teacher with EU passport.

I have feeling, many of EU Schools are there only for tax purposes.

9 years 30 weeks ago
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