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Q: Is it time to give China a nice long break?
It just seems like there have been a lot of knife attacks (in public transport areas) recently and jumping around from major city to major city. Let's keep in mind it is quite a possibility that MANY attacks have been suppressed from the media obviously because it makes China sound very unsafe (which now it seems to be).
Besides that, the levels of pollution, use of chemicals in foods and anti-foreigner propaganda has been on the rise in the past few years.
It just seems like some of the deep rooted issues of the CCP are starting to boil over and the "lao wai" or non-Han minority is on the chopping block. I am just thinking maybe it is better to head to a country where they actually APPRECIATE some kind of foreign presence and investment...
So what do you think? Time to pack up the bags and leave? To another country or home?
Every country is messed up on its own way. For example about the pollution, have you heard about fracking on the U.S ? or watch Gasland. I think you should think for yourself what are you looking for, China despite of its shortcomings have a huge prospect for career and business since its booming (although there is a chance the bubbles of debt and property will burst just like what happened in 2009).
If you want peace and safety I'll suggest move to a developed country.
DrMonkey:
There's a difference between "thing X happens here too" and "things X happens here much more commonly". Only India is coming close to China in term of pollution. Even if you look at pollution per habitant, rather than the whole country.
liantohusin:
@DrM I assure you sir, India isn't the only one. Lets take a look at my country then, feel free to come to Jakarta for yourself and see what happens there. Its literally surrounded by trash everywhere in the city, you can google "jakarta" and "garbage".
Moreover, i'm not talking about pollution only, as for knife attacks we got a lot of them too. Hatred for foreigner or each other ? Again, look up jakarta 1998 incident, the so called "native" pillage and rape chinese indonesians.
I'm not trying to defend china lol, I'm just saying that every place is fucked up in its own ways. Perhaps you don't know some place are fucked up because you have no information about it.
The likelyhood to be stabbed by a maniac in a train-station is much, much, much lower than the likelyhood to be rammed by an electric bike driver (driving without lights in the dark, in the wrong way, too busy phoning, non-working brakes, etc.). Don't get me wrong, those stabbing are very depressing events, it smells of desperation, hate, etc.
Pollution, your kids education, and "forever an outsider" are more relevant reason to leave. Yup, systemic issues, yadayada. Random attacks ? C'mmon,it's not Honduras by a very long stretch...
CharlieB:
I agree, I was born and raised in New Orleans Louisiana in the U.S. A city of barely 300,000 people consistently has between 350-500 homicides annually. That being said, I rarely felt unsafe there as it is almost all tied to criminal activity (drugs). I certainly do not feel unsafe in China based on recent events. I do worry some about the long term health consequences of the pollution and failure to ensure a safe food supply.
expatlife26:
right and well put.
Statistically i'm going to die crossing the street, not in a knife attack.
China is not what it used to be, foreigners used to be not warmly welcome as a true part of the country but at least they were appreciated (maybe too much, almost worshipped) and the country used to be probably the safest in the entire world, in the 5 past years or so the overall view of foreigners went from worship to disdain and even if the country remain much safer than the US or Western Europe it's not a reason to not raise a concern about criminality which is quickly spreading in first and second tier cities, especially in suburbs due to the urban sprawl. China used to be as safe as countries like Japan, Singapore and South-Korea where petty crime is non-existent, now it's more like half way between these countries and Western Europe, and worsening.
mike168229:
Western Europe? Seriously? You pick that as a benchmark for violence and criminality? I come from "Western Europe" and I can say that I feel a lot less safe here than there. Moron.
Yes Rob, I'm thinking it could be. But I've just signed another 12 mth contract so, as long as the powers give me another extension, I'll have to wait for summer '15 to bail out. By then it'll have been 5 1/2 years.
The things that piss me off seem to be increasing little by little. The braindead car owner who parked in a manner which effectively blocked off the entire street yesterday really annoyed me. I found myself yelling loudly in a form of protest but to whom? Nobody. And certainly my yelling efforts were nothing more than a form of amusement to people standing around nearby. The same ppl who couldn't go forward or backwards because of the ridiculously positioned car. But were they annoyed too? I suspect not. Because to have been so would have required some mental acuity. To have given the situation some thought and come up with a response. To wit; yelling. Albeit, forlornly. No thought. Just acceptance of their lot. So some selfish arsehole blocks a whole street and life just has to go on around that fact and there's nothing anybody can do about it.
I think the thing that's starting to piss me off more and more is the brainlessness of the people.
TIC and there's nothing anybody can do about it.
And the big knobs in Beijing and local city officials continue to breath a collective sigh of relief as they suck on their Cubans.
Robk:
Yeah i agree, I think being here for the time I have has been long enough.
The things that annoy me, still annoy me and has been a extreme lesson in tolerance. It is not one thing on its own that really annoys me but the collective. The main reason why I think it is time to take off is because in my experience they just don't want us to stay here long-term. They don't want us to get too comfortable...
royceH:
Of course they don't want us here. We are LAOWEI !...and China is for the Chinese. The HAN Chinese.
But my wife loves me...How do I know?? She tells me. And I think that of itself, the fact that she can actually say it, suggests I'm a lucky bugger.
Should take her with me when I do the Harold Holt.
Shining_brow:
I'm wondering when I'll start scratching paintwork (in Chinese, like "don't park like a moron next time"), or knifing tyres... or just smashing windscreens (particularly on the cars that refuse to brake for pedestrians on crossings - I already bang on their back windows, etc!)
I am going to cut some learning curve on the people that are thinking about staying here permanently: DON'T BOTHER
Take your first and second year have fun, explore, maybe learn some Chinese and romance a little then get out. A lot of foreigners fall into a sort of trap and stay in China because of loved ones or comfort of life. Here's what I learned:
1. Many foreigners think if they learn Chinese more then Chinese will accept them. - No, they respect you more but they don't accept you. A Japanese guy (their sworn enemy) has a better chance of being accepted if he pretends he is mute.
2. Many foreigners think being stuck in ESL is part of of the problem and if they work in another field they will gain acceptance and live a "normal" life. - Nope, they don't really care what you do, just how they can exploit you somehow. They may give off false compliments but there is always a hidden agenda.
3. Many foreigners think if they get married to a Chinese national that Chinese will accept them. - Yes and no. The family of the Chinese national MIGHT but you can be certain everyone else will not... again they may respect you a little more but you will never be accepted socially.
They will hand you a crappy family visa and tell you... you can't work legally to support your family in China. A clear sign of, "GET OUT".
China is a country that loves and welcomes guests (for the most part)... but will be quick to let you know you have overstayed your welcome when you start to see past the facade.
For me it is time for a nice long break now that I have China completely figured out.
expatlife26:
Remember...by their standards of judging everything by money, China is only the #83 culture in the world, ranked by GDP per capita with $6700 per person...only 67% of the world median of about $10,000.
Whereas US/Canada are 9th and 10th with about $52,000 per head each.
So by their own standards of ranking things quantitative-only by cost/numerical value you shouldn't care what they think at all.
You do care what they think...because we don't tend to think like that. We were raised to try to give people a fair shake regardless of their income/nationality. That's a qualitative difference between western and mainland culture...and a quality you should be really proud of having. Your parents raised you right.
Chin up, man.
I'm thinking it's getting time to move on anyway safety concerns aside...I've been here almost 5 years, built a solid career and i'm hoping I can take my experience back home for a good salary.
I've posted a couple resumes and had two positive phone interviews for banking/consulting jobs back home. If I get the right offer I'm outta here in a second...though that was always true! If I can use my experience here as a springboard to a great job in the US (where I can actually pay less rent and get a nice car again!) then my time here was worth it.
If you think you have the experience here to get something good back home...do it!
derek:
That is exactly where I am with it too. Leaving in a month and taking my wife and baby daughter with me. My experience here has been an asset and things are looking good for the relocation. So I guess it's not all bad.
expatlife26:
best of luck derek.
It's definitely not all bad if you got valuable experience out of your time here.
Rob your having a bad china day. Just calm down. Think it over, take a few days in Hong Kong, eat some real food. See how people are supposed to act. That always freshens me up for another crack at it.
Hope you feel better soon!
Robk:
Haha thanks,
Not the best of of days recently. I do my best to try and stay calm, maybe that is part of the problem. Maybe I need to hulk out and smash a few idiots, haha.
Soon, I will just be in China 6 months or less of the year, so that will be bearable.
Probably heading to the Philippines to set-up a business in Cebu.
Those knife attacks are going to become more and more prevalent.
It actually creeps me out seeing all these attacks on places I've been to several times in the past. I could've been there at that time if things were different.
This is why I carry a gun and/or knife in China - you never know when a psychotic nutjob will come for you or your family. Try to be prepared, always.
expatlife26:
if you think you need to carry a gun in China you're a fucking idiot. If you're seriously living someplace where you feel in danger then you're doing it wrong...99% of neighborhoods in this country are affordable to even ESL teachers if they work enough hours, save for a few in big cities that you'd be priced out of.
There are tons of safe affordable neighborhoods here, if you're really carrying a gun you're just needlessly asking for trouble.
Hulk:
Nobody can see my gun. It's concealed. I wouldn't walk around like "hurr durr I huvv a gun erryone." It's called being prepared for the worst.
And some day I will post why I carried one, why it was necessary and how it actually protected my family many times. Not now, though. 
Actually i'm kind of surprised that you say that you think they'll respect you a little more if you date/marry a local woman...people ask me sometimes if I have a chinese girlfriend/wife and when I say "no" i never get a response like "Oh fuck you, so our women aren't good enough for you??!?" Remember that they consider our countries (though not our cultures) to be objectively nicer than theirs, so the more we have in common with our home countries the more face we have to them. Being a Sinophile gives THEM face...not YOU.
In my experience of dating and living here I think you get the most "cool points" for dating a Russian or other country that they assume is exactly the same as Russia, because they think they're the most beautiful and only date rich men.
I think you get the most respect for being a "normal person" if you're with a pretty woman from your own country. As though it shows that you a respectable person by your own country's standards.
Robk:
Well, that is kind of a mixed bag and varies on region. Some Chinese think it shows you are making an effort to connect (kind of like learning their language) and some think you must have lowered yourself because you are an outcast of your own country or something.
Some think the foreigner is a fool and was taken by a crazy Chinese gold digger and laugh that the foreigner has been "HAD". You are right in the assessment that even if you marry the Chinese girl, the Chinese start to think they have gained YOU instead of you having gained A CHINESE WIFE. But really, socializing with people like that are a waste of time unless you plan to put up permanent roots here.
These are types that call you to have dinner when it is code for:
"Get over here, we will give you a free dinner and booze if you promise to drink, allow us to drill you with stupid questions that try to make China look great while you do your best sell out your dignity."
That has become very old and tiring for me. And since my business does not deal with Chinese, I have really nothing to gain... nor do I care for free booze or dinners.
I only do this sometimes for my wife's family to gain face.
Some Chinese are really awesome. At one dinner, I could tell INSTANTLY which Chinese were more open-minded and which were full of themselves how I answered one question. One Chinese guy asked, "You are laowai to us and we are laowai to you... very different... right?"
I replied honestly in Chinese, "I don't think like that, a laowai just means someone who is not from THIS or THAT land. I liek to think of us all as just humans."
Half the Chinese men at the table agreed very sincerely and look pleased by that answer (the half that wasn't as filthy rich). Half the Chinese men looked annoyed, not only because we answer suggested we were all equal (the rich guys were all sitting together on one side) but at the fact the less rich guys (their inferiors) took so well to the foreigner's answer and not to rich Chinese guy's implications that everyone has their place.
Then the poor guys saw that the rich guys didn't like their reactions and sort of settled down. After all, the rich guys controlled the residential area, not the poorer guys.
expatlife26:
well I certainly agree that anybody who is that ignorant is not worth the time.
I've realized that I really do just pretend I live in the west, and that's part of the reason I started sending out resumes to companies back home.
There really isn't a ton to recommend about this place...I think at best China is an OK place to live. Hell in most US cities if you can make $100K a year you can live better than a Chinese person can at any price.
I've done well here, succeeded in a way that i'm happy with and live pretty decently...but I agree with you it's getting to be time to move on.
AH yes Mr ROBk store bot drollery at its finest lol
Robk:
Mark14 I don't think anyone likes you or wants you here....
Did you change your name because you got banned or because you are a coward?
expatlife26:
OMG and return is banned too!?!?! What is going on here???
Why does everyone I support unconditionally get banned?
force1:
ROBK your a deadset fuckwit :) im not a coward like you , does that answer your question dribble dick!!
