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Q: Japan;"eternal condolence","deep remorse","deep repentence"China,75yrs on;"boohoohoo...raw memories"
I mean, is China just a pathetic cry baby hell bent on perpetuating a mentality of victim hood? Or something else?
Is my feeling of contempt for China unreasonable and misguided?
Anyone else out there want to share their feelings for China? Is this place your home? Do you, like me. want to give China a big slap and tell it to grow the fk up?
Or am I, as usual, wrong again?
Mainlanders do not have access to accurate historical information, and so cannot understand the historical context of their present situation. They possess little objective awareness of what ideology is, and generally have a poor grasp of psychology. So the feelings of discontentment, impotence, inferiority, insecurity and victimhood warring inside their hearts can easily be funnelled towards a made up enemy, like modern Japan.
Chinese people’s self-pity has little to do with actual historical events, and nothing to do with personal experience. Their “reasons” for being inconsolably mad at modern, peaceful Japanese people would be laughable, were it not for the brooding darkness and violence that underpins them.
Young Chinese people’s violent revenge fantasies, while based on claims of historical persecution (that they did not experience), are curiously not directed towards the people who committed war crimes, but modern Japanese people, who happen to be modest, polite, and less interested in war than any other people on Earth. But hey. They live in the same geographical area that Japanese soldiers once inhabited, long before the Chinese youths were born, so I guess we need to kill them all with maximum violence.
My grandfather from NZ lost a leg in World War II. He’s a mildly racist old bastard**, but I can forgive that because he actually got shot by a Japanese person. Now… which of my shy, pimply-faced, league-of-legends-playing male students has been in any way inconvenienced by Japan (let alone inconvenienced to an extent that would justify the revenge genocide they talk about)? The entirety of their exposure to Japanese people comes from watching Japanese AV, which from personal experience I can say isn’t that bad.
**: My grandfather, by the way, doesn’t harbour resentment, victimhood, self-pity or brooding viciousness, UNLIKE random Chinese people who did not experience World War II.
Hypocrisy
Very few Chinese people who are alive today have witnessed Japanese war crimes. A vastly greater number of living Chinese people have witnessed torture, public executions and mass-starvation at the hands of the Communist Party. Why don't they bitch and moan about the Cultural Revolution (they really should) in the same way that they do about the Rape of Nanjing, and fantasize about violent revenge? Could it be, just maybe, that their feelings of personal victimhood stem from something other than objective historical reality?
Chinese sentiment towards one group or another isn't based on logic, or experience, or historical facts. It is based on indoctrination.
Indoctrination
Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits, but according to who does them, and there is almost no kind of outrage – torture, the use of hostages, forced labour, mass deportations, imprisonment without trial, forgery, assassination, the bombing of civilians – which does not change its moral colour when it is committed by ‘our’ side. The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them. -George Orwell
Chinese people are taught to hate Japan in primary school, well before they can possibly understand what a war crime is. They learn bullshit stories about one-dimensional Communist heroes doing “noble” deeds (deeds that would make people from any other country laugh because they’re so obviously bullshit).
They are taught that events are “good” or “bad” based entirely on who did them. As a result of education, Chinese people don’t consider fairness to be based on objective principles. Things are unjust if done to China. They are just if done to others in “defence” of China.
Political Consequences
China has become a massive international bully, and still acts like a giant cry-baby. The problem is that China will use its “boohoo, poor China” mentality as a justification for any future atrocities, and Chinese people will still think they are victims while China invades and violates other countries (and all manner of international laws, treaties, and human rights agreements).
Most European nations after World War II woke up and realised why the world needs to stop perpetuating this cycle of nationalism, militarism and invasion. China, unfortunately, is centuries behind the free world in its comprehension of global community. It still sees international politics as a zero-sum game: China can only win if someone else loses. China is a monocultural, imperialist nation that will use claims of victimhood and humiliation as a pretext for committing deeds upon others that were atrocities when committed upon China.
I completely agree with Royce’s summary of the situation, and I think Chinese people’s attitudes will have sinister consequences in the future.
royceH:
Yes, Samsara...so do I.
And thanks for your response, it was excellent.
Another question is; Exactly WHEN is the plan to unleash hell going to be kicked into gear?
laowaigentleman:
My grandfather fought the Japanese and was fortune not to lose any of his parts, but he refused for the rest of his life, like most New Zealanders of his generation, to ever buy a Japanese car. His children - my uncle and mother thought his attitude preposterous given the value and quality of Japanese cars combined with the fact that they were clearly reformed, and had to wait until he carked to switch the ol' VW Passat for a Toyota Corolla and a Honda City respectively.
All that, just for a Honda City.
China's not ready for the Honda City yet, but they're not westerners, so princples fly out the window when it comes to purchasing.
Helps that their neighbours are ignorant peasants too.
I don't bother mucho with 'changing it'. I usually suggest, and if not accepted, I let it go.
It's shorter to change myself, i.e. 'I don't like.....Bye!'
You know the answer.
Most of us are over the victim mentality constantly played by the CCP (and thus, transferred down to the people), especially in regards to the Japanese invasion/war of 75years ago!!!
And we're also sick of how hypocritical the Chinese (and, let's face it, most) governments are.
How about we all start playing the victim card towards the CCP, asking them to say sorry for not sending in troops to effectively combat the Japanese, cos they wanted to play politics with people's lives...(and Mao, "the great leader" was living it up in Chengdu).
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2014-04/17/content_17439639.htm
Few weeks ago I read this piece, quite nice gesture I thought.. I shared this with my Chinese colleagues and friends so many times. It seems that the usual reaction to it is always "So what?" ...
wanna talk about pissed? wtf Normandy? u think 1066 just comes and goes? I believe a formal apology is in order and u all should commit collective suicide soon after. (but keep sending us the yummy cheese, Anglo-Saxon cheese is inferior and often poisonous)
diverdude1:
nowhere near as awesome as your short essay. I'm forwarding it to several people I know. Luv the Orwell quote~
Franck3:
Sorry I missed your point? What you said is just more mumbo Jumbo.
I hate white people. Except Scarlett Johansson.
fada:
All colours hate you. Even your own race, its true, they told me.
Japan is the only country on earth to be nuked, twice. I believe that gives them a certain sense of "come on guys, were we really worse than Hitler and Pol Pot?" card.
-And yes, they have suffered enough. Watch any Japanese film of the 40's and see the poverty and starvation that was going on. Ikura is a good one.
fada:
Only the people they f-ed over can really decide if they have suffered enough, and for the most part it is a resounding no
Shining_brow:
Fada - your logic should therefore force you to conclude that only the actual people alive in Nanjing at the time, and still alive today, should harbour that resentment... and virtually NO-ONE ELSE! How about listening to your own logic? (or, will you come up with some other BS excuse?)
Franck3:
The nuking of Japan was not really necessary. The fire bombing of the major cities in Japan would have sufficed. It was mainly in retaliation for Japan's atrocities and the divine wind etc.
Shining_brow:
@Fada-idiot....
All the reasons I hear for hating Japan are solely the Nanjing Massacre. Sure, they invaded China - but hey, the Chinese invaded lots of countries/nations/regions (and did their own lot of massacring). In total, at it's height, Japan controlled less than 1/3 of China. And, without this invasion and war, China would still be further in the dark ages.
Again, I suggest you follow your logic - that only those who actually suffered be the ones to hold the grudge, not the government (which wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the Japanese invasion - and which put it's own political agenda ahead of that of the people).
And, again, I say - 75 years!!! While you may say they decide how long is enough, when does the rest of the world get to say "stop trying to create more problems in the area?" It's not just about feeling an emotion - it's about international politics and regional stability. China is holding onto WWII as reasons to keep the tensions going, so when war finally does break out again, they'll say they are fully justified - cos of what happened 75 years ago!
fada:
1/3 of china is a huge land mass with a huge population, this effected all of china, not just the areas under direct occupation, everybody was effected, what don't you understand? I cant make this any clearer for you. Yes china invaded lots of countries, most of which still dislike china to this day. Modern China is a russian foreign policy success not a japanese blunder. You can stand there all day and say "75 years is enough time people" but your opinion matters little to anybody, not saying that to be a dick, but you really think your or my opinion has 1) any effect 2) any validity?
Franck3:
The Japanese during WW11 where pure barbarians. This I think is why they got nuked. At the time of Hiroshima Japan was being fire bombed into oblivion. There really was no real reason to drop a nuke on them. But they had committed some many atrocities and were hated with a passion, so it happened.
Mainlanders do not have access to accurate historical information, and so cannot understand the historical context of their present situation. They possess little objective awareness of what ideology is, and generally have a poor grasp of psychology. So the feelings of discontentment, impotence, inferiority, insecurity and victimhood warring inside their hearts can easily be funnelled towards a made up enemy, like modern Japan.
Chinese people’s self-pity has little to do with actual historical events, and nothing to do with personal experience. Their “reasons” for being inconsolably mad at modern, peaceful Japanese people would be laughable, were it not for the brooding darkness and violence that underpins them.
Young Chinese people’s violent revenge fantasies, while based on claims of historical persecution (that they did not experience), are curiously not directed towards the people who committed war crimes, but modern Japanese people, who happen to be modest, polite, and less interested in war than any other people on Earth. But hey. They live in the same geographical area that Japanese soldiers once inhabited, long before the Chinese youths were born, so I guess we need to kill them all with maximum violence.
My grandfather from NZ lost a leg in World War II. He’s a mildly racist old bastard**, but I can forgive that because he actually got shot by a Japanese person. Now… which of my shy, pimply-faced, league-of-legends-playing male students has been in any way inconvenienced by Japan (let alone inconvenienced to an extent that would justify the revenge genocide they talk about)? The entirety of their exposure to Japanese people comes from watching Japanese AV, which from personal experience I can say isn’t that bad.
**: My grandfather, by the way, doesn’t harbour resentment, victimhood, self-pity or brooding viciousness, UNLIKE random Chinese people who did not experience World War II.
Hypocrisy
Very few Chinese people who are alive today have witnessed Japanese war crimes. A vastly greater number of living Chinese people have witnessed torture, public executions and mass-starvation at the hands of the Communist Party. Why don't they bitch and moan about the Cultural Revolution (they really should) in the same way that they do about the Rape of Nanjing, and fantasize about violent revenge? Could it be, just maybe, that their feelings of personal victimhood stem from something other than objective historical reality?
Chinese sentiment towards one group or another isn't based on logic, or experience, or historical facts. It is based on indoctrination.
Indoctrination
Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits, but according to who does them, and there is almost no kind of outrage – torture, the use of hostages, forced labour, mass deportations, imprisonment without trial, forgery, assassination, the bombing of civilians – which does not change its moral colour when it is committed by ‘our’ side. The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them. -George Orwell
Chinese people are taught to hate Japan in primary school, well before they can possibly understand what a war crime is. They learn bullshit stories about one-dimensional Communist heroes doing “noble” deeds (deeds that would make people from any other country laugh because they’re so obviously bullshit).
They are taught that events are “good” or “bad” based entirely on who did them. As a result of education, Chinese people don’t consider fairness to be based on objective principles. Things are unjust if done to China. They are just if done to others in “defence” of China.
Political Consequences
China has become a massive international bully, and still acts like a giant cry-baby. The problem is that China will use its “boohoo, poor China” mentality as a justification for any future atrocities, and Chinese people will still think they are victims while China invades and violates other countries (and all manner of international laws, treaties, and human rights agreements).
Most European nations after World War II woke up and realised why the world needs to stop perpetuating this cycle of nationalism, militarism and invasion. China, unfortunately, is centuries behind the free world in its comprehension of global community. It still sees international politics as a zero-sum game: China can only win if someone else loses. China is a monocultural, imperialist nation that will use claims of victimhood and humiliation as a pretext for committing deeds upon others that were atrocities when committed upon China.
I completely agree with Royce’s summary of the situation, and I think Chinese people’s attitudes will have sinister consequences in the future.
royceH:
Yes, Samsara...so do I.
And thanks for your response, it was excellent.
Another question is; Exactly WHEN is the plan to unleash hell going to be kicked into gear?
laowaigentleman:
My grandfather fought the Japanese and was fortune not to lose any of his parts, but he refused for the rest of his life, like most New Zealanders of his generation, to ever buy a Japanese car. His children - my uncle and mother thought his attitude preposterous given the value and quality of Japanese cars combined with the fact that they were clearly reformed, and had to wait until he carked to switch the ol' VW Passat for a Toyota Corolla and a Honda City respectively.
All that, just for a Honda City.
China's not ready for the Honda City yet, but they're not westerners, so princples fly out the window when it comes to purchasing.
Helps that their neighbours are ignorant peasants too.
Samsara is right and I will add that the more educated (c.f. educated overseas) Chinese people do not hate Japan.
Every Chinese that I know who studied overseas do not harbor any anti-Japan sentiment even after coming back to China. The topic of Japan usually comes for the first time when we have to pick a place for eating. Since I love Japanese seafood I suggest it but... they tell me it's okay they like Japan and its people, how polite and well mannered they are, they then often point at how Chinese should follow their example.
It is easier to indoctrinate the poorly educated folks here in the Mainland, but China even with its propaganda machine can't control what overseas students are learning, it can't hide the truth from them.
coineineagh:
a Chinese friend in Amsterdam university was forced to change his stance on Japanese after looking for a student job. he refused to work for any Chinese restaurants anymore, because they kept underpaying and mistreating him. he loved working at Korean and especially Japanese places, for the tips in particular, which he could keep. he eventually rationalized this with mental acrobatics; once a delusional Mainlanders, always a deluded fool.
gouxiong:
Can it be that they are just more 'refined' and used to Western standards and therefore they just think twice before opening their hearts to a stranger?
You are just acting like a usual Fox news commie driven by opinions coming from one perspective.
I would rather ask what is a big deal for Japan to send a formal apologize letter to Beijing if this could resolve the issue? People in this part of the world are freaking stubborn like the American idiots who go on destroying whole regions and yet claim, ' I am doing the right thing'.
I would personally apologize to my neighbour kneeling down if I think it is going to end the conflict. Asian countries have this issue of stubborn attitude where a word of consolation can change the fate of billions but the political idiots keep them in the dark to enjoy the upper hand. You probably haven't heard of other Asian countries such as India and Pakistan with their eternal stupidity of piling stocks of nukes but cannot feed the swaths of people.
BobC:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan
Samsara:
Haha, BobC beat me to it.
Japan has issued numerous apologies, at international forums, most of them to China and Korea, for its actions in World War II.
And Chinese people don't know about it. INTERESTING, RIGHT? It's almost as if the Chinese government wants to perpetuate animosity towards Japan.
royceH:
Of course that is precisely what they want to do.
Anything to distract the mob from having a closer look at the mess that is China gives them more valuable time to continue fleecing the poor bastards.
Anti-corruption drive?? Cmon, this whole thing leaves me wanting to throw up!
Everything, EVERYTHING in this country is corrupt and they know not any other way.
But....those bloody Japs have hurt us and....and....one effing day we're gunna get em!
diverdude1:
consolation. the stereotype is that fox viewers are the opposite of commie.
American idiots?.... sour grapes much little fox?
http://www.historyandheadlines.com/10-great-american-achievements/
;-) courtesy of this American idiot
fada:
An apology means shit.
If i kick down your door and rape your wife.
All i need to do is say im sorry? I wish we did live in kindergarten.........
jetfire9000:
if apologies don't mean anything, does that mean they're off the hook?
thefidu881:
Diverdude...those 10 achievments are like a fig to a watermelon if you consider the 1 idiotic step in middle east.
thefidu881:
@Jetfuel...I didn't know of what has been presented above. I think both the countries need to get real.
fada:
@jetfire What people fail to understand is that it is entirely up to China when they choose to forgive, if even at all.
thefidu881:
Now you prove my point of qouting 'Fox commie'...lols steady since the Afghan opium isn't that easy to absorb...
Shining_brow:
Fada - Firstly, as I commented on you above, the only people who should judge when "enough" has been given are those who were the actual victims involved in Nanjing (and other places the Japanese military did their shit)... NOT the people TWO GENERATIONS LATER! Especially not the 1.29 BILLION people who weren't even alive at the time!
Of those 1.2billion+ people I'm talking about, I've asked some of them why they hate Japan. Answer: Because of what they did (ie, Nanjing Massacre). I then ask them what it would take for them to stop hating them - answer: An apology. I then point out the full list of 40+ official apologies Japan has issued throughout the decades... silence, or blustering - usually "not good enough!" MORE THAN FORTY!!! For something they personally never experienced - nor their parents, nor their grandparents, nor their great-grandparents... nor anyone in their family line.
VASTLY more pain and suffering was experienced by their family members by the CCP - within living memory. Yet, this gets overlooked and ignored (and hidden away).
How about you just admit to yourself - and the rest of the world - that you just want to hate Japan because you need to keep that hate inside you. It helps to give your life meaning. It gives you a place in the world. You have made it part of your identity, and if you decided to stop hating, then you'd feel like you lost a part of yourself, a piece of your soul would 'die'. You are not willing to let go of that sense of identity... change is scary... scarier than the truth!
gouxiong:
Well, if so many sincere apologies from Japan then why also current, as per many of your opinion, totally democratic South Korea shares China point of view on Japan? I am not saying current Japan is bad. I just say it's mainly their task to appease their neighbors.
fada:
@shining brow. Those effected directly or indirectly? The victims that were directly effected cant decide.....do you want to know why? Who gets to decide?you? I'm not chinese, neither are you i assume, the difference between me and you is i dont pretend to know what the chinese have gone through i only accept that their view point is valid, so is japans. You only accept one view point, yours. I love japan, by the way. You seem a bit confused on the issue, it has nothing to do with dirty commies killing their own peasants and everything to do with a countries right to preach hate or love to their own citizens about whomever they please, if you dont like that im sure the disney channel has something interesting you can watch. Edit to add: the legal system of every country on the planet is set up to ensure those not affected are the ones dishing out punishment and judgment, it seems to me that you are advocating an eye for an eye over the rule of law, inadvertently i assume. Remember you said only those directly effected are eligible to decide and judge. So how about you just admit to the world that you something something darkside.
Shining_brow:
Fada - I mentioned above my PoV - the Chinese government is actively provocative towards Japan by its internal control of the media and education, as well as various bits of BS in the international arena. This is causing severe problems in the region, creating instability, and war seems to be coming (certainly, conflicts have occurred).
As for when enough is enough... it would appear that the rest of the world has said it's been enough...
As for the ''right' of a government to tell it's people what it should or shouldn't hate - no, I don't think so!!! It is NOT the government's responsibility, nor should it be confused with a 'hate', of what the people should or should not feel. People should feel whatever they feel, for whatever reasons they feel. It's the government's responsibility to ensure that any such emotions are left out of its policies - especially international ones! It's the government's responsibility to rise above such things! And, it should be the government's responsibility to ask it's people to rise above such unhelpful emotions.
Onto your Q: about punishment... interesting topic, and one that goes much further than just a comment. My stance... hard to say - as I see both sides to that. One includes the realisation that humans will never be satisfied with 'justice', as 'justice' is not something that can be adequately given. "You killed my brother, so I kill your brother" doesn't work... because then it keeps on spiralling. Acknowledgement and responsibility are vital... and typically lacking. Same with forgiveness. "It happened, I got hurt, it's in the past - but I'm still not willing to forgive you" - is what causes all the problems. The way I see the Sino-Japanese issue - the Chinese will NEVER just let it go. Not all the completely heart-felt apologies, nor reparations, etc. They want to see Japan humiliated! Shamed!!! Would you do that? If your father, or grandfather did something wrong, would you be willing to humiliate yourself publicly so that someone else felt 'justice'? Would you give up your beliefs? Would you deny your religion?
Just as a quick, and related tangentially, thought - the US government has never publicly apologised the the native Americans for their treatment (though there was a 'silent' apology written into their resolutions...). Should the Native Americans still be holding onto their grudges, given that up to 95% of them were wiped out? (obviously, depending on statistics... and one would also say that fhey suffered a similar fate to the Chinese at Japanese hands).
I have no idea what "something something darkside" is supposed to mean...
fada:
Countires only care what other countries think of them because "it suits them at the time" same is true of people. Every native american i have every talked to, admittedly very few, despises the american federal government and distrust white americans. I see and aknowledge your points, what im saying is china has a right to hate, if you consider it wrong so what, they still have the right to do whatever the f they want as long as they are willing to pay the consequences. apologies for any personal insults I have delivered.
The real problem is that Mao killed more Chinese than the Japanese did. He killed more than Hitler according to some studies. Around 45-60 million, give or take a few million.
I have said on another similar thread that the real issue with Japans defeat is that Emperor Hirohito was left as head of state rather than be executed. That caused problems that survive to this day in the entire Asia Pacific. Add to that the protection America gives Japan. Japan has a pacifist contstitution (the allies wrote it), but they have a ring of American steel around them. This causes resentment.
Japan could apologize till the end of days. The party will never accept it so long as that ring of steel is there.
In the meantime, it would be nice if the party could say sorry for the deaths they caused. If they did, maybe people would start to trust Government.
Amazing really... how to say sorry for killing tens of millions?
Anyone ever read " Maos great famine" by Frank Dikotter? Horrific. Its banned here of course.
BobC:
Well if you want to look at murder by someone's own government this professor likes to use the term 'democide.'
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/MURDER.HTM
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM
The first link shows Pre-20th century and the second link is post-20th century.
Shining_brow:
how to say sorry for killing tens of millions.. of your own people that you promised to protect and take care of?
Fixed it for you :)
Englteachted:
Again you show that you have no sense. If you are going to strip a country's right to have a military away from them you must be responsible for their protection.
ScotsAlan:
Japan has a defense force with state of the art equipment. Remember there was a bit of a diplomatic scuffle a few years back when they wanted to move away from their pacifist constitution to allow their forces to be offensive and not just defensive.
http://www.quora.com/Did-Mao-thank-Japan-for-invading-China
thank you so much for invading, so i want be a simple peasant, now i can use blood to produce better agricultural products and natural selection for a better society, maybe i can get a nobel peace prize.
As mentioned Japanese and German approach towards WW II approach is totally different.
Germans openly declare that all what Nazism taught and did was completely wrong and they adopted very strict measures to prevent such situation occurrence. Germany openly says that ally forces in 1945 liberated also the, Germans.
Japan on the other hand goes just for very mild verbal expressions which are totally wiped out by top Japanese politicians visits to Yasukuni shrine (this being also condemned and protested against by South Korea, not just China) .
Such an approach does not exactly help the issue.
Of course certain part falls also on the account of political propaganda, as especially in the past Japan was a big economical and political rival.
But blaming just China is a bit shortsighted.
Shining_brow:
"short-sighted"?
75 years.... short-sighted??
Then what would you consider "long-sighted"?
Oh, posting a new question which I'd like you to answer....
gouxiong:
I just tried to mention that the situation is not black and white. There are not the "good guys" on one site and the "bad guys" on the other one. There is clearly something like "historic memory" which influences the general public point of view on certain matters. If there would not be so where the Greeks take the "courage" to ask for war reparation? When my German friend about 10 years ago wanted to marry a Czech girl so he was quite afraid, rightfuly, how her family will take it. And as I said Germany did everything possible to become democratic, civilized and free country - with success. Japan is far away from even officialy denounce all the war criminals. No wonder China, but also South Korea, have a problem with it.
ambivalentmace:
so if japan does not do this with deep remorse, my great, great, great grandchildren will still be reading about this excrement in the 25th century, what a load of crap. after japan does suicide hari kari then the western powers that were in china in the other centuries will have to do the same thing. the slippery slope of history, the ccp would not exist without the invasion of china by japan but unintended consequences are not in history books here, that would require critical thinking, how much greater would this country be with all the doctors and teachers that were exterminated during the cultural revolution, again unintended consequences,
gouxiong:
If you are European so you probably heard about 30 years war.
For my country by this war started 300 years occupation by Austria.
Till now in majority of Czech school is taught, that the fight on White Mountain (in Prague, at that time next to Prague) on 1620 was a Czech state tragedy.
It absolutely neglects the fact that Czechs basically did not join the fight as well as that probable consequences of eventual victory of protestants army would have much more severe consequences.
What I want to say by this example is that it's absolutely possible your grand grand grand children may here how Japan was 'evil'.
But I do not think that's the point.
Why Germany is generally not taken negatively? Because they did everything possible to cut they 'dark' part of the history from the current new Germany.
Japan simply did not do that.
However I agree with you that blaming anyone now for the things which happened 75 years ago does not make any sense.
In case your grand grand grand children will hear about 'evil Japanese' so I assume it's up to you, your children, grand children and grand grand children to put it into perspective.
Shining_brow:
Let's look at this issue from the other side, GX... what exactly has China done to alleviate the tensions between these 2 nations?
While some Japanese (including some officials in their government) want to play down the atrocities, and take back some of the apologies given in the past, the Chinese government has allowed (mandated??) continued war movies showing the Japanese to be evil, cruel bastards - not just the ones back then, but also now.
While some Japanese school textbooks may play down WWII, the Chinese textbooks continually play up what happened.
Japan makes an apology - some Chinese accept it... and then later say it's not enough - we're still going to hate you.
Q: regarding WWII and Germany - when do the Allied powers get to apologise for forcing Germany into the severe depression their reparations cost them? If all of that crap through the 20's and 30's hadn't been forced upon Germany by the allies, then WWII wouldn't have had the impetus to begin. Which is something that is very well acknowledged by all. (just looking at things from a different angle!)
Wars happen all the time... some get dwelt on for far too long... (and, unfortunately, lead to other wars). Humans suck!!! (while expecting other humans to rise above their suckiness and "do the right thing".)
gouxiong:
First of all it's not about the justice.
Each country has to behave pragmatically as otherwise could not survive well.
I agree that Versailles treaty was one of the reasons for the war. And if Hitler would not be obsessed with attacking USSR who was at the time before the war their only ally so my country probably does not exist.
But the situation developed in a way that Germany started two wars in the 20th century, caused a lot of grievance especially towards the Jews and then Slavs, lost and accepted the consequences.
Till now we have the movies how Russian (and American) armies beat the 'evil' German ones. I personally do not like to watch them much but also do not find anything wrong with them.
Therefore also do not find anything wrong with Chinese movies about the war with Japan.
Generally I would say that it's more Japan who needs access to Chinese market for their products rather than China needing Japan.
It also was Japan who started the war and not China.
And it is Japan who still commemorates war criminals.
In that sense I believe it should be Japan to make the effort to normalize the situation ...
