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Posts: 1989

Peasant

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Q: Is learning English really about learning or just for the looks?

I've been teaching for a while now and I've noticed a few things.

1. If there isn't a group of people, the students don't want to be there.

2. They just want to talk about random things instead of actually learning something new by using a new method.

 

Now, I'm not saying that every person is doing this but I've seen this happen far too many times. My thoughts are that learning in a one-to-one environment isn't a good thing for them because there is no one else there to see them learning. Also, that learning through new methods is against the norm and this culture is against that. So, what are your thoughts on this?

9 years 26 weeks ago in  Teaching & Learning - China

 
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Posts: 3837

Emperor

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most pre-university students in a one-to-one English learning environment are probably not there by choice so it can sometimes be a struggle to get them to work. They have very few outside interests, as most foreigners would understand them, so it can be a challenge finding things to motivate them to speak.

Also, given the way English is taught by Chinese teachers, they are resistant to different methods of teaching that require them to do the work themselves - as is necessary when learning a language.

I know this is a generalisation, but most students you will encounter are only there to learn the minimum English required to pass the exam, not through any desire to be good at communicating in English.

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9 years 26 weeks ago
 
Posts: 2531

Emperor

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Younger kids want classes with others (in most cases) and adult students usually prefer one-to-one or small groups. 

 

I personally prefer business or university students as you feel like your efforts are better rewarded. 

 

 

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9 years 26 weeks ago
 
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Same as the way anyone learns anything in China. No-one cares about the substance behind anything here. They just want enough to get a piece of paper which will let them work as a clerk at Apple.

 

Bourgeois commies.

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9 years 26 weeks ago
 
Posts: 197

Governor

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I would say that most students at all levels are less interested in learning the language as such and more interested in the immediate benefit they might get from learning a few phrases or words. These benefits might be passing an exam (younger learners) or getting a better job (businessmen). Altogether most students would not be interested in actually learning (and remembering the language). 

 

As for one-on-one teaching, most Chinese learners at all levels would be so focused on the Chinese system as not to accept any other modes of learning. So while one-on-one might work for a specific purpose and for a specific period of time, in the long run most students here would probably not be interested in any foreign approaches to actually learning the English language. 

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9 years 26 weeks ago
 
Posts: 1142

Shifu

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Search for "The teacher is an idiot" an article by a professor from AUS about ESL in China...spot on....depressing...and accurate.

laowaigentleman:

The problem is that Chinese teachers are idiots, but they're taught to take them seriously. As a result, the country has no Nobel Prizes which they can't suppress.

9 years 26 weeks ago
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DrMonkey:

@laowaigentleman did you read article ? The proposed answer is far more petty and depressing than yours...

9 years 26 weeks ago
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tomcatflyer:

Tried searching for the article but can't find it, do you have a link?

9 years 26 weeks ago
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laowaigentleman:

@dr. I think it is blocked. Ignore my old comments. I had a bad week in my school. Problems are resolved now.

9 years 26 weeks ago
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9 years 26 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

Is there a version translated into Chinese of that study, perhaps?

9 years 26 weeks ago
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laowaigentleman:

@xin

 

I just read it now. It is exactly my experience teaching university in China. I became very angry one day and said, "who the hell would pay a graduate from a school who plays games?"

 

The students complained a lot about how my lessons were boring. The thing was, they improved massively, so I would have expected them to have been happy with my teaching. Not so. I have been incredulous for months now. It made me very cynical about Chinese education.

 

Do you think Chinese people really see foreigners as cultural imperialists? I don't feel that way about foreigners when I'm in my own country.

 

I am glad that I gave them the benefit of the doubt and changed a little, letting them play more games to encourage the more reticent ones to speak more.

 

I was told a story about a Brazilian lecturer whose class was perceived by his level 2 Chinese university students as too difficult, so the students complained and he was removed as a course instructor and replaced by someone who played games instead.

 

I'm so glad I read this. Xie xie. Makes sense of my experience better than any other paper.

9 years 26 weeks ago
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9 years 26 weeks ago
 
Posts: 3256

Emperor

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For not wanting to be alone... Keep in mind most adults here have the self confidence level of a teenager back home.  Because you are not "one of them", they feel even less confident because they know there is a cultural gap, multiplying (in their eyes) the chance for face loss. With a group, they feel more confident : the teacher have to divide is attentio, not focusing only on one student.

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9 years 26 weeks ago
 
Posts: 3256

Emperor

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Double post.

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9 years 26 weeks ago
 
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I meant to reply to you yesterday. I have been in China two years. When I first came here I taught in a middle/high school. The classes were 60+ students, but this school was considered the best in the entire town. It was a third tier city.

 

Because so many new graduates in China are chasing so few jobs, a pre-requisite for working at this school was a masters degree in the relevant subject. Because of this policy change, a lot of the existing teachers who did not have masters degrees suddenly felt compelled to get them. Not because of any requirement from the school's leaders that they do so, but because they held senior positions so they didn't want to have subordinates who were more qualified than them.

 

I don't have a masters, but I do have a bachelors in English literature and philosophy studied up to honours level and I'm a native speaker. This was quite fortuitous because the teacher in charge of the foreign department was about to submit her masters thesis. She asked me to proof read it.

 

It had a lot of excellent ideas and it offered an empirical study of how lexical chunks are a more efficient and effective way of teaching Chinese children English than rote learning. (It is a no brainer proposition, but she provided brilliant arguments and analysis to support her claims).

 

All parents want their children to be good at English, it's just that the older generation don't really understand what the effective ways of teaching are. This problem isn't unique to China. It is prevalent throughout east asian culture. Because parents' pay so much money to send their kids to learn, they want to see results. The acquisition of language is a slow process and the rote learning of multi-choice answers will never lead to a person mastering the language.

 

Anyone working in education knows this, but it takes a long time for attitudes to change. I teach in a very good school in a tier two city now, and the parents of them (generally) have a very good understanding of the outlook I've just shared with you.

 

It's only my own experience, but many people, both expats and Chinese seem to concur with me on it.

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9 years 26 weeks ago
 
Posts: 19

Governor

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You could ask the same question about almost anything in China:

 

 - Is luxury shopping really about buying things you need or just for the looks?

 - Is marriage really about love or just for the looks (to make your parents happy)?

 - Is producing news really about producing quality information or just for the looks?

 - Are anti-corruption campaigns really about ending corruption or just for the looks?

 

Welcome to the land of symbolic actions!

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9 years 26 weeks ago
 
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