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Posts: 482

Shifu

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Q: Please define your teaching hours. What are yours, and how many office hours do you have?

Hello,

 

Another teaching contract issue.

 

My current school seems to think that 25 teaching hours means 25 hours as in 25 * 60minutes.  In previous jobs, I have never had to do more than 18, and the classes have been labelled teaching hours, but they are actually only about 40 - 50 minute length classes at most. 

 

My office hours is all the other time I currently spend at this school everyday.

 

My day starts at 7:30 and finishes at 5pm.

 

Reason I ask this now is because my next full-time contract is being discussed, and they are moving goalposts and being pedantic.

 

FTR, they are currently offering 15k per month, but have agreed 18k with one teacher, but then they stated that we would be deducted pay if we don't do the 25 teaching hours (25 * 60 minutes). 

 

The salary may seem ok, but, as stated in a previous thread, only 8k of this is guaranteed.  The rest is made up of clauses etc.

 

I just want to get a consensus of what everyone thinks about this so that I can be safe  with my thinking.

 

Thank you

10 years 45 weeks ago in  Teaching & Learning - China

 
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Posts: 2494

Emperor

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I'm not exactly sure, but I too went to a place offering 15k working 5 days a week and having office hours. If they have a sponsor of some kind they probably will pay you the guaranteed amount....rather than 8k.

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10 years 45 weeks ago

There are cookies, bookies and too many rookies for me to sit here trying to be a hooky! Looky Looky don't call me a wooky. Touchy Touchy Feely Feely Spicy Spicy Nicey Nicey & that's what the doctor Ordered!!

 
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noyfb

crimochina:

serious answer: read your contract carefully each school is different.

10 years 45 weeks ago
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10 years 45 weeks ago
 
Posts: 164

Governor

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I teach 8 hours a week in public h.s. and no office hours

 

ou812:

really you only teach 8 hours a week?

10 years 45 weeks ago
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xxxcdbxxx:

Well total hours, actually I guess I wasn't clear

but yeah 10-12 40 minute periods.

1 of which is an E.C.

10 years 45 weeks ago
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10 years 45 weeks ago
 
Posts: 164

Governor

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I wouldn't trust anything called 'clauses' here

I am sure the clause says

If all your students score a 120 on TOEFL then we give you extra money

period

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10 years 45 weeks ago
 
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Emperor

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Twenty teaching hours max per week. "Teaching hour" = 40 minutes. Had 20 hours last semester and 16 currently plus three office hours per week. Office hours don't bother me. I can do attendance, prep for classes, cruise Taobao, do anything really. 

 

I'm not happy to hear they want 25 60 minute classes for the pay. You might tell them no, or tell them that "one class hour = 45 (or 40) minutes; that's common. 

 

If they want you there 40 + hours a week and they like you, let them give you a legitimate raise without aditional obfuscating conditions and clauses. 

 

You know your school best. Don't let them run over you.

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10 years 45 weeks ago
 
Posts: 482

Shifu

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This is what they are negotiating for next year's contract, not the current one.  The current contract is not clear enough with regards what they call teaching hours, but, I do nowhere near 25 now anyway. 

 

It's a case of, they have taken the mickey in other ways, and there are other issues.  My colleague and I are in the same boat, and she basically told them what she wanted next year.  They then agreed but tried adding all these conditions etc.  She got really angry.  She is inexperienced in China - only been here one year, but I protect her best I can, and we share communications as it seems to be the school is against us even though they want us to stay.

 

The whole school is geared towards wanting something as cheap as possible, or for nothing if they can - at the expense of quality.

 

They seem to think that getting a few books from Singapore, and calling themselves International is enough.  It isn't.

bill8899:

Ok, let me play cynic.

Re: the "what is a teaching hour?" You may have few hours this semester, but this may be a setup for the next term. The only time I have heard of a teaching hour = 60 minutes was for part time teaching at a language institute. Do not fall for this. Don't do it. A teaching hour is 40 or 45 for you and others in similar positions. 

 

Like you said, they already took the mickey (had to look it up haha) on other issues. It sounds like they will never stop renegotiating (IOW; attempting to change in their favor) the contract, like they did with the added conditions on you friend's contract. Let me be clear: after you sign the contract they will continue to attempt changes. 

 

"The Whole school is geared towards wanting something as cheap as possible", and that includes you. You make a good salary, but I am dam sure you earn it, so don't give in. 7:30 to 5 is no cup of tea. Let them pay you for it, with very limited and reasonable "conditions" and clauses. If there are only two of you, they really need you. You deserve a raise. Don't accept less pay if you work less than 25 hours per week. You are there 40 + hours a week, not your fault if they don't have many classes for you. 

 

I guess that wasn't exactly cynical, but there's my 2 cents, anyway.

10 years 45 weeks ago
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10 years 45 weeks ago
 
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While I only do 20 teaching hours max (currently down to 15 after one group finished their program), I am expected to do up to 16 office hours per week (HA!) But, we have a great manager who is quite ok with us not doing those hours while our work is done... cruising taobao or playing on QQ is a waste of time! (also, we don't get paid for office hours - bastards!)

 

There's going to be no way in hell your school is going to change the 60min hour. So, I wouldn't even bother trying to change that.

 

However, you can argue over the max number of teaching hours you do, and demand that you get paid for ALL of the time you're there - ie, your 'office hours' (for whatever that may happen to include).

 

Totally ditch those clauses! If they want clauses, find Santa to do the teaching! ALWAYS REMEMBER - they need you far more than you need them!

 

ALL schools are geared towards trying to get as much as possible for as little as possible - it's a business, and that's how businesses run! And 'quality' has little meaning here... (although, depending on which part of the country you're in, there may be exceptions)

 

15K isn't too bad - but that also depends on whether it's pre- or post- tax, and which city you're in.(you may want to mention you'll be in touch with the local taxation office to ensure you are having the correct amount of tax taken from your salary... all in the interests of ensuring you're home tax situation is ok...  Tongue... ie, so some bastard in payroll (or management) doesn't get your cut!!!)

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10 years 45 weeks ago
 
Posts: 887

Shifu

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14 classes (45 min), no office hours whatsoever.

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10 years 45 weeks ago
 
Posts: 482

Shifu

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Thank you all.  Keep the comments and answers coming.  Us foreigners need to stick together.  Like I have the back of the other one in my school.

 

I have been here four years, almost, and I want to ensure that I am still right.  I can see I am.

 

Many thanks.  If only there was a rep system.

crimochina:

we are all independent  contractors, any foreign english teacher looking to "stick together" in china is asking for trouble. this is china

10 years 45 weeks ago
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CARLGODWIN1983:

I understand your point, Crimo, and in actual fact, my point was a little tongue-in-cheek, although the way things are going in this country, I think it is increasingly becoming a them and us situation.

 

Regards, me looking out for my colleague, I have been in China for almost four years now.  The reason I ask questions on here is to get a second opinion etc, and because things have and are changing for all of us here.   My colleague is a newcomer, and although she has teaching experience, she has no China experience.

10 years 45 weeks ago
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bill8899:

Yea crimo I don't think there's a problem with describing a situation on a forum and asking for feedback.

no

10 years 45 weeks ago
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crimochina:

" Us foreigners need to stick together.  Like I have the back of the other one in my school."

 

this entails more than posting questions and answers. 

 

i have my own back. one of the things we all need to learn about china is that any hint that foreign english teachers are colluding with each other will give them an excuse to pull the plug. it is the responsibility of each individual to learn how to read a pucking contract (sorry went off on a tangent).

also going around thinking another foreigner has your back simply because you are foreigners is retarded. that is actually the way chinese think. the reality is, many expat teachers i met are just as despicable as the locals. they will try to befriend you to collect info and feed it back to the higher ups. 

when talking to co-workers in china (foreign / locals) keep it casual and positive. many old timers or even newbies will feel threatened by other foreign english teachers. 

10 years 45 weeks ago
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Emperor

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"Teaching hours" is a con. Your work hours commence from when you arrive at work, and finish when you leave. If you do 5 x 1 hour lessons starting at 9 am and finishing at 9 pm, that is 12 hours at work, not 5 hours at work.

 

If you are doing more than 15 hours teaching a week on a full time contract, you are doing too much, considering the very low salaries that China pays.

crimochina:

trav: you are not even on the planet with this post. 

10 years 45 weeks ago
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Traveler:

Maybe badly worded. I think that the amount of time you spend at your workplace constitutes your work hours. It is he amount of your time that the employer uses.

 

If you're required to spend 40 hours a week at your work place, but only teach 15 hours, your work hours are 40 hours, not 15 hours. The employer has used up 40 hours of your time, regardless of what you are doing with it.

 

Spending 40 hours a week at work for 8000 Yuan a month works out about 45 Yuan an hour.

 

Alternatively, you could say you only work 15 hours a week because you only teach 15 hours. That would mean you earn 120 Yuan an hour, but give your employer 25 hours of your time for no money whatsoever.

 

It still averages at 45 Yuan an hour.

10 years 45 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

I actually agree 110%... And constantly have that argument with employers. You pay for my TIME, not how I spend it at YOUR workplace!

10 years 45 weeks ago
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crimochina:

trav: teaching at a university is different from teaching in primary school or middle school or high school. maybe that's why what you said seems so wrong

10 years 45 weeks ago
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10 years 45 weeks ago
 
Posts: 7715

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Btw, I do 60min lessons... which means, max of 3 classes in the morning, and 3 classes in the afternoon... much better than having to do 4 or 5 in the morning/afternoon! Smile

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10 years 45 weeks ago
 
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Governor

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25 hours, 50 classes that last 25 minutes (it was 30 minutes the first month, but I argued I needed 5 minutes to drink water and take the material for the next class). No office hours. Kindergarten.

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10 years 44 weeks ago
 
Posts: 3

Governor

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Please can I get a teaching job in China through ye people? I am an African(NIGERIAN), I am currently working in Ivory Coast as a teacher but I like working in China. I'll be glad to hear from anyone who can assist me. Thank you!

GuilinRaf:

I would never hire someone too lazy to post his resume in the classifieds section.

10 years 44 weeks ago
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