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Q: please i find it really difficult looking for job.Is there any way you can help me find a job?
my skin color hinder me from getting a job.I believe that's the only setback about me.With my educational background and working experience i am over qualified to acquire a teaching job.Which schools in china need african teachers as i am from Ghana?
9 years 2 weeks ago in Teaching & Learning - China
What does it mean difficult? I understand, you're Non-native English teacher, and African.
Chinese students and schools don't fancy black or colored people. It's bad sentence, but that's reality in China, and you should be aware of it. That is one of the reasons, Chinese employers ask for the photo on CV.
I would say, it's not easy to land a job in China, doesn't matter if you're Native or Non-native English teacher, overweight, colored, or any other reason you can think of it. Never mind!
Keep sending your CV to the job adverts. Disregard notion 'Native English Teacher' on adverts, and send your CV anyway. It's 2 hours daily work, you must do 7-days a week.
Chinese employers won't reply, if they aren't interested in your CV. Never stop sending CV, till you don't sign a Contract.
You can try with my trusted placement agents:
- 'Allen Jia' - email enkebeijing@hotmail.com
- 'Belita Qi' - email belitaqi@outlook.com
- 'Linda' - email teachinglanguage2009@gmail.com
Ask them to add your handle/name on Skype, and talk to them. They are all Chinese. You can send them an email first. If they'll ask, you can tell them you got their contacts from 'icnif', and see if they have an open position for you.
They were telling me last week, that most schools want Native English teachers, just so you know.
I'm Non-native English teacher, Caucasian, working in China with proper documents since 2010.
Good luck!
icnif77:
It's not 'cool' that it counts. I'm convinced, my position here isn't to judge one's ability to get job, doesn't matter what reasons I can can go on.
Only entitled person to judge and determine one's possibility to get employed is an employer.
It's hard feeling, when one asks for an advice and help, and get lecture on English writing ability from Native English speaker, who learned language same as other people learn how to walk, or any other reason.
Not being judgemental, more than cool.
On 300 million Chinese English students, there will always be a spot for Non-native English teachers in China.
I'm going for laugh now: Stewart had Jessica Williams wearing bikini
and body armor on yesterday's Daily:
http://news.yahoo.com/mckinney-daily-show-jessica-williams-bikini-body-armor-video-162242184.html
When Stewart suggested that pool parties should be fun and involve "super soakers," Williams was shocked.
"A water gun at a Texas pool party? Are you trying to get me killed?" she said.
ambivalentmace:
check out g gordon liddy's stacked and packed calendars of hot babes with guns, great stuff.
icnif77:
I'm not into the guns and calendar is probably full of 'big hooters' pics. I don't fancy big. Stewart is about 'last cops bust at Texas pool party'.
It's not 'Law&Order' in US, it's all about 'macho, armed, mostly white police machine'. Not different than 'Soweto' 20Y ago. I don't understand how to combine 'step on the Moon first' and ''today's apartheid' in US''.
At every cop's scandal in US, I think what would be my sentiment if I would be an active cop.
I'd change for 'baker' or 'nudel maker' instantly.
We've hijacked the thread.
dokken:
English is an official language in Ghana, so technically he is a native speaker.
icnif77:
''Native English speaker (in China) is considered resident/passport holder of UK, USA, Canada, Ozz, N. Zealand (or S. Africa)". 'Big 5', mei you 'Ghana', 'New Delhi' and other countries with English as an official language. Gov. in Ghana probably use English as an official language, but different tribes around the Ghana most likely don't speak English, when communicating with other tribes. So, Ghana can't be considered as 'Native English country'.'
'http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/14582/meaning-of-native-speaker-of-english
A "native speaker of English" refers to someone who has learned and used English from early childhood. It does not necessarily mean that it is the speaker's only language, but it means it is and has been the primary means of concept formation and communication. It means having lived in a truly English-speaking culture during one's formative years, so that English has been absorbed effortlessly as by osmosis.
One can have been born and grown up in a country that lists English as one of its official languages and not be a "native" speaker. For example, Canadians from Quebec cannot automatically be considered native English speakers even though many speak English quite well; they were brought up speaking French as a first language and think in French (or Canardien, as I have heard unkind Parisians refer to it). But the rest of Canada does largely consist of native speakers of English.
Speaking "like a native" of any language means more than just knowing vocabulary and grammar. Many educated foreign speakers speak better formal English than, say, many Americans or British or Australians. But formal English is only one aspect of the language. Knowing instantly what slang means, what cultural references mean, how to reduce syntax to a bare minimum and still convey precise meaning — all these things, and more, are what constitute native speech.
Chhris:
What? Ireland is not in their native-English speaking country list? How come? :o
icnif77:
Not that Ireland isn't in their list. More, they don't consider (know) it's separate state/independent, and IMO Ireland in their list fits under 'UK', but Ireland certainly must be considered Native speaking country by SAFEA.
I can't really talk about that (who's considered as Native English speaking country by Chinese/SAFEA). Only Irish can tell about that, if FT from Ireland has Working permit.
I've never met any Irish FT in China but I believe, Irish don't have problems to get WP in China, same as Scottish.
However, if you look at job adverts (schools posts), it's always written 'FT must hold passport from USA, Canada, UK, Ozz, NZ and S. Africa. It's never written 'Irish and Scottish' too.
Even posters here never say anything else but 'big 5' as Native English countries.
Yes, your skin color AND your passport . Visa rules say you need to be a native speaker from a small list of countries. Not saying it's right, just that's how it is and it will make getting a job harder for you.
icnif77:
There are no such a rules in China, at least it's not the same Law as in Taiwan, Jap, S. Korea, Russia, and others.
I believe, it's an 'open decision' of Provincial SAFEA to grant WP to Non-native teacher.
It's most likely, Non-native English teacher will be declined WP in the biggest cities and around the coast of China.
In 2013, I called Jiangsu SAFEA, and officer flatly told me, WP can't/won't be granted to Non, despite I had rolling WP since 2010.
Before Jiangsu, I had WP in Liaoning (Dalian) and after that in Fujian, so it can't be written in Chinese law 'only Native English passport holders can work as English teachers in China' same as it is in Taiwan and others.
Shining_brow:
Incif is quite correct (not that he needed the moral support... although as a non-naive... :p)
I have a few different nationality people who are teaching English in China - Poles, Russians, Greeks, etc...
However, sometimes they have problems... and that's before we start talking skin colour...
icnif77:
@Shining: ''the thing is you all (Natives) step in the shoes of the employer with determination of 'who can get job...''.
Its probably 'bad written English what hurts you', what doesn't affect me that much.
I usually reply to Q with help&advice, if I can.
'You can't get a job' or 'you shouldn't be teaching English' rarely cross my mind, 'cause I'm not the person, who'll show the Contract to the applicant/hire him/her.
Stiggs:
Icnif.. The thing is, often it is just native speakers who can get the job.
Schools have to think about their market, ie; students. If they're not willing to pay for a non-native speaker then the school probably won't hire one.
They also need to consider the fact that they might not BE able to hire a non - native speaker, even if they wanted to. Visa rules in their province and their relationship with the PSB will be factors in this.
I know, there are always exceptions because TIC, and a non-native speaker isn't necessarily out of the race but lets face it, it's not always that easy getting a decent job. All the posts from people asking how to get a job as a non-native speaker point to that being true.
icnif77:
I agree, it's tough job to get decent new, position, however it might be the same for Native teachers, what I don't know. It's really personal experience, 'tough' or 'easy'.
Most of the time, recruiters or schools know right away, if it's possible to secure WP for Non.
I have an interview next week with Public Primary School in Taizhou, Jiangsu. They know, I'm Non-native, and they (should) know, Jiangsu SAFEA won't grant WP to Non. Jiangsu won't even extend RP for Non. We'll see what happened.
icnif77:
I had interview with Public School in Taizhou, Zhejiang, yesterday evening. School can extend my RP, and they are interested in my employment there.
However, Kaifeng school offered new Contract yesterday afternoon. I had to renew it, because my RP expire on July 1st.
'Pls., keep in touch' from Zhejiang school for the next year's Contract and probably some work in this year summer recess.
It's an entirely Province decision of granting WP/extending RP to Non-native teacher.
On the other side, some job adverts here have new notion 'only Native English Teachers need to apply'.
What does it mean difficult? I understand, you're Non-native English teacher, and African.
Chinese students and schools don't fancy black or colored people. It's bad sentence, but that's reality in China, and you should be aware of it. That is one of the reasons, Chinese employers ask for the photo on CV.
I would say, it's not easy to land a job in China, doesn't matter if you're Native or Non-native English teacher, overweight, colored, or any other reason you can think of it. Never mind!
Keep sending your CV to the job adverts. Disregard notion 'Native English Teacher' on adverts, and send your CV anyway. It's 2 hours daily work, you must do 7-days a week.
Chinese employers won't reply, if they aren't interested in your CV. Never stop sending CV, till you don't sign a Contract.
You can try with my trusted placement agents:
- 'Allen Jia' - email enkebeijing@hotmail.com
- 'Belita Qi' - email belitaqi@outlook.com
- 'Linda' - email teachinglanguage2009@gmail.com
Ask them to add your handle/name on Skype, and talk to them. They are all Chinese. You can send them an email first. If they'll ask, you can tell them you got their contacts from 'icnif', and see if they have an open position for you.
They were telling me last week, that most schools want Native English teachers, just so you know.
I'm Non-native English teacher, Caucasian, working in China with proper documents since 2010.
Good luck!
icnif77:
It's not 'cool' that it counts. I'm convinced, my position here isn't to judge one's ability to get job, doesn't matter what reasons I can can go on.
Only entitled person to judge and determine one's possibility to get employed is an employer.
It's hard feeling, when one asks for an advice and help, and get lecture on English writing ability from Native English speaker, who learned language same as other people learn how to walk, or any other reason.
Not being judgemental, more than cool.
On 300 million Chinese English students, there will always be a spot for Non-native English teachers in China.
I'm going for laugh now: Stewart had Jessica Williams wearing bikini and body armor on yesterday's Daily:
http://news.yahoo.com/mckinney-daily-show-jessica-williams-bikini-body-armor-video-162242184.html
When Stewart suggested that pool parties should be fun and involve "super soakers," Williams was shocked.
"A water gun at a Texas pool party? Are you trying to get me killed?" she said.
ambivalentmace:
check out g gordon liddy's stacked and packed calendars of hot babes with guns, great stuff.
icnif77:
I'm not into the guns and calendar is probably full of 'big hooters' pics. I don't fancy big. Stewart is about 'last cops bust at Texas pool party'.
It's not 'Law&Order' in US, it's all about 'macho, armed, mostly white police machine'. Not different than 'Soweto' 20Y ago. I don't understand how to combine 'step on the Moon first' and ''today's apartheid' in US''.
At every cop's scandal in US, I think what would be my sentiment if I would be an active cop.
I'd change for 'baker' or 'nudel maker' instantly.
We've hijacked the thread.
dokken:
English is an official language in Ghana, so technically he is a native speaker.
icnif77:
''Native English speaker (in China) is considered resident/passport holder of UK, USA, Canada, Ozz, N. Zealand (or S. Africa)". 'Big 5', mei you 'Ghana', 'New Delhi' and other countries with English as an official language. Gov. in Ghana probably use English as an official language, but different tribes around the Ghana most likely don't speak English, when communicating with other tribes. So, Ghana can't be considered as 'Native English country'.'
'http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/14582/meaning-of-native-speaker-of-english
A "native speaker of English" refers to someone who has learned and used English from early childhood. It does not necessarily mean that it is the speaker's only language, but it means it is and has been the primary means of concept formation and communication. It means having lived in a truly English-speaking culture during one's formative years, so that English has been absorbed effortlessly as by osmosis.
One can have been born and grown up in a country that lists English as one of its official languages and not be a "native" speaker. For example, Canadians from Quebec cannot automatically be considered native English speakers even though many speak English quite well; they were brought up speaking French as a first language and think in French (or Canardien, as I have heard unkind Parisians refer to it). But the rest of Canada does largely consist of native speakers of English.
Speaking "like a native" of any language means more than just knowing vocabulary and grammar. Many educated foreign speakers speak better formal English than, say, many Americans or British or Australians. But formal English is only one aspect of the language. Knowing instantly what slang means, what cultural references mean, how to reduce syntax to a bare minimum and still convey precise meaning — all these things, and more, are what constitute native speech.
Chhris:
What? Ireland is not in their native-English speaking country list? How come? :o
icnif77:
Not that Ireland isn't in their list. More, they don't consider (know) it's separate state/independent, and IMO Ireland in their list fits under 'UK', but Ireland certainly must be considered Native speaking country by SAFEA.
I can't really talk about that (who's considered as Native English speaking country by Chinese/SAFEA). Only Irish can tell about that, if FT from Ireland has Working permit.
I've never met any Irish FT in China but I believe, Irish don't have problems to get WP in China, same as Scottish.
However, if you look at job adverts (schools posts), it's always written 'FT must hold passport from USA, Canada, UK, Ozz, NZ and S. Africa. It's never written 'Irish and Scottish' too.
Even posters here never say anything else but 'big 5' as Native English countries.
bings, buTT...'bell probably isn't properly levelled'.There are other countries in the world that you can teach English in.
Okay. before this turns into another destinyeric clusterf*ck:
1. What part of the visa agreement that you will not openly discuss, debate or criticize the Chinese laws and regulations/policies do you not understand?
2. What part of business practice do you not understand that parents want their little dumplings to study in Canada, the U.S., U.K. Australia/N.Z and NOT anywhere on the African continent, the Philippines, India, Pakistan, or Stanlosistania? It makes sense to have teachers from the target migration countries.
3. So sorry, but someone from the countries in point #2 may be able to speak and teach their country's version of English, but they cannot teach the cultural nuances required for the target country's educational system. Can you teach TOEFL/SAT/IELTS or explain the rules of baseball, real football, gun culture, First Nations history?
4. Since when did China declare itself to be a migrant-friendly country? "Foreign Expert"...think about it.
5. I've met hundreds of Indian chefs, African tradespeople, engineers, shopkeepers, traders, businesspeople, scientists, designers, etc., of every color from every corner of the globe and yet it is always the 'English teachers" doing the whining. Why can every other skilled laborer succeed and not whine and cry on ECC but those limited to English teaching never stop crying foul (or sour grapes)?
6. Fada had a great comment that flies in the face of destinyeric and its ilk: you like to call the foreign teachers from the "Big 5" losers, yet the whiners themselves cannot seem to procure a job in their own country, either. "Pot calling the kettle black" and all that.
7. Again, I would like to bring up the point that some posters are giving false confidence and hope to those who do not meet the legal requirement(
to work and reside in China. It is highly irresponsible to advise others to try and circumvent the legal requirements in China. There are enough economic refugees and those who carry a high debt-load that will end up totally screwed by having flippant advice thrown their way. Just because you are "under the radar" doesn't mean it will be the same for others.
If you're not willing to take personal, legal, and financial responsibility for those that you give illegal and unsound advice to, then try to be a little more judicious in your responses. Some posters are tying to look brotherly whereas they're only putting someone else in a precarious situation.
icnif77:
7. It's not 'false confidence' or 'confidence' whatsoever. It's more 'go and knock!' and here are 'the doors to knock on'.
I don't feel comfortable to judge anybody, because of his nationality, size, color, English fluency, or any other reason I can detect from the Q.
By my own experience, schools and placement agents will 'close the doors' immediately, if they aren't able to secure legal employment to applying FT, because of his Non-passport or any other reason.
Sometimes, they also offer other visas, instead Z/RP, what OP who is in need might accept.
However, that's not my job.
'It's entirely School's choice and responsibility who to hire'.
OP is teasing the Board, IMO. It's not sincere request.
I'm not sure, if you saw two other similar Qs yesterday by the same OP, already deleted.
Sinobear:
Yes, Fluffy, and I honestly downt knoes how dey can konsider a pusun a native englisch speeker when they kant type or spell properlee lack ov puntuashun and the lower case i drives me insane everee tyme i sees it
grammar be not yer relative but u friend!!!! LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
icnif77:
How in the world could 'Non-English' (as me) say: 'Your English is not good enough!'? You 'Canardien'
icnif77:
Get FF (french fries) out of your 'edit:' 'mouth' now, and :
'...they were brought up speaking French as a first language and think in French (or Canardien as I have heard unkind Parisians refer to it)'.
I was in Paris metro-pole few times. I know, Frenches are unkind, an-ddd what I 'c&p' about.
'Canardien' is the nick-name given by French Native speakers for the person (u) 'speaking French like a duck' (the Quebecoi-zers). O2, o2
Shining_brow:
I thought grammar was my parents' mother... and so it is relative :p
ScotsAlan:
I have been thinking about how to comment to this this all day.
You have a point Sino. The law is the law.
Chinese are racist. The Chinese Government are racist. The country is racist, the laws are racist, the bosses are racist, the shop keepers are racist and the farmers are racist.
But you know what. The Jim Crow laws were racist too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws
Did people just accept them? No fecking way. People set out to change them. It took over a hundred years, but their legacy remains.
Just because a law is a law does not make it a right law.
You know the law is wrong Sinobear. Please join us in trying to change it.
Try this one if you cannot get any other. they look pretty desperate
Hotwater:
That job advert has to be a joke or one hell of a cheapskate employer! 2-4k? You can get >2k / month working in a factory!
icnif77:
@Hot: it's just classic Dokken's 'down anybody' reply from secure anon puter.
He feeds himself that way, 'cause he can get much, much better paying position as Native passport holder.
Then, you got to wait few days, and Dokken has new Q: 'What's survivable wage in Hangzhou?'
That's called in math 'm2' or 'squared moron'.
dokken:
Cool it icnif. I meant no insult to him. If he is struggling to get started in China, maybe this is a back door for him until he gets some experience/majkes himself competitive. I care little about who takes what esl job. I just think you should never lie about being non native. I also don't think non natives should teach adults or teenagers. Though non native speakers who have spent many years in English speaking countries, might be ok. I took a chance on a non teaching job that is in a field I'm interested in. It does not pay well but I'm hoping it will propel me into a good career in future. That's why I asked about least survivable wage. Nothing wrong with esl it's an honest profession. I may still do it in future
icnif77:
Low wage on the job advert doesn't sound like school is desperate to get FT, and they will take anybody.
Such job advert is most likely labeled as an 'internship'. School wants to hire Native, young FT, who's not professional English teacher, and it's suitable position for students, who want to 'come and see China, and get some pocket money on the top'.
If you want to find 'desperate Schools in need of FT', you should look at the keep repeated job adverts. A month old or older job adverts could also be proper way to find school in 'immediate' need of FT.
