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Q: Is prostitution in China really that bad a thing?

Before the attacks begin here me out.
The vast majority of the women in this business in China choose to do so voluntarily so they can have a better life.  Also the cultural stigmas that exist in the west are not at all the same in China when it comes to prostitution and there are many many different kinds and levels of prostitution in China.
Take a girl who is under educated because of circumstance, does she take a factory job earning 1600rmb a month or does she become a ktv/massage girl and make 5+ times that?
Most women that get into this field do it because they want to, and they can make alot more money.
As for unscrupulous pimps, as horrible as these scumbags are, how are they any different than the unscrupulous factory bosses that work young people half to death for a few dollars a day?  People get used and taken advantage of in every business there is all accross the globe unfortunatly.
Case in point: KTV girls  (disclaimer...I have friends who used to work as KTV girls and I also know business dudes who frequent these places.) Most of them are only working there to drink with men and keep them company for "tips" and nothing more. What's better, making 2000rmb at best a month at a factory working 12 hours a days 6 days a week or making 150-300rmb a night to drink with men and pour their drinks and flirt only working maybe 5 hours a day? Then there are some girls at KTV who are willing to do "extra" services if asked, and this is done only if they reach an agreement about money and services rendered.  If fact even the girls who do this will often refuse if they don't like the man or feel uncomfortable.  Let's say they do this once or twice a week, then with normal tips they could bring in 10,000+rmb a month.  This let's them send money home to family, buy nice clothes and have a nice life.  Many very much like what they do for the opportunity it gives them.
Hotel girls:  The girls that provide "services" for hotel guests.  Most of the time these are girls with a day job...maybe massage, maybe waitresses or maids, that jump at the chance to make a few extra bucks and do so quite willingly.  (I have a friend who works at a hotel).

Prostitution in China is more rampant than any other country on earth almost, so I find it ridiculous that they don't legalize and regulate it.  Think of the billions upon billions of rmb the government is losing on taxes because this business is underground. 
Chinese men will never stop wanting these services and there will never be a shortage of girls willing to provide them for the right money.
In closing I will say that people that force women into prostitution are evil bastards that should be castrated, but for those that willing enter the profession, why shouldn't they be able to it if thats what they choose?

8 years 13 weeks ago in  Lifestyle - China

 
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The truth is that the factories can be more damaging to a person's health than prostitution. Certain factory jobs put people in contact with dangerous chemicals that can kill their health in only a year or two, sometimes severely shortening their lives. They aren't told of the dangers, and are barely compensated after they find out the bad news. They're easily replaced. That's not to mention the people who get hands or fingers cut off because of reduced safety standards.

When you add in the long hours, the fact that many of them do overtime so they can send money home, they stay in dorms with many other people and eat cafeteria food every day and are lucky if they have one day off a week...I don't know, certain jobs like prostitution don't sound as bad. To me, that sounds a little wrong. But if you don't have any money, no skills, I can see why some women choose to be prostitutes instead. It's really difficult to get a job outside of your town. Because of the hukou system, you're treated like a second class citizen.

If I had grown up in China, and I was facing that choice, honestly...I don't kno w what I would choose. I know which one sounds easier. We also can't forget the concept of face. If you're a factory worker, you look like a factory worker, if you even have time to go anywhere. If you're a prostitute, during the day, you can have nice clothes, have another job. It sounds like it has more freedom, and I'm sure that's how a lot of women feel. Money is very important. Considering these things, prostitution doesn't sound half as bad as it does back home.

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8 years 13 weeks ago
 
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A very nice and orderly argument, Dude, and without the moral considerations, very valid.  Congratulations ! yes

And taking it one step further, maybe we should explore two questions, WHO doesn't want prostitution to exist in China, and WHY they do not want it to exist.

In my opinion, the first question, WHO, in China, is just the Government officials.  Even if, I am sure, they do also patronize it privately, for public consumption they want bit erradicated.  Chinese male population is not really against it, there is no moral or religious foundation (like in Western countries), and thus many patronize it in many ways, as concubines, as KTV or massage parlors, as street workers, etc.  The female population basically is not against it either, you do not hear any one making noises about stamping it out.  And of course, thaose doing it are not certainly against it.  I have befriendly with a few of those Ladies, and as you said they are just doing it because for some is the only way to make sufficient money to help family back home and have enough left for a nicer way of life.  And all do not plan to do it forever, they do it far away from hometown (so they will not be recognized and brtanded as such), and for a few years to be allowed to save enough money to go back home and open a small business there.

And as to the WHY it is done, again in my personal opinion, it is basically two things.  One because it has always being said that prostitution is an evil or a sin, and a result of capitalism.  And since in communist regimes there is no capitalism, can not be any prostitution legally.  And two would be a question of "face", officials gain "face" with populace by destroying prostitution rings that "exploit" younger Ladies and force them to use their bodies.

It would be interesting to see if any reader agrees or expands the though6ts expressed here.

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8 years 13 weeks ago
 
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Is it a bad thing?  Never had the urge to use the service personally, but I'm about the same as you as judging just how "evil" it is.

Why they don't legalize it:  Since it is looked down apon in the West, then the government wants to make sure it looks good on the surface (same reason why they have some many laws that aren't actually inforced).  Yeah the government is loosing potential tax money, but the guys running the government are making more than enough in bribe money to look the other way (and how many political figures would want to loose money that comes directly in their own pockets just so the country can make more money).

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8 years 13 weeks ago
 
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I myself have never ventured into it. and that is my choice.
I do feel simpathy for the girl who comes to another country as a student and resorts to this line of work to support herself and get on with her studies.
a means to a end I guess
Its not that its the easy way out but with poor english skill it maybe the only option to them.
If it is at their own free will so be it.  to each their own 
Just get the bastards that push people into it
However I would rather see these young ladies better educated with skills before they go abroad so as to give them more choices of employment in other industries.

but what ever the circumstances I wouldn't judge the girls

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8 years 13 weeks ago
 
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I really wish they would legalize prostitution. Honestly, it's about safety and security. In countries where it is legal, it's regulated. They are informed of the risks they are taking, and they get regular checkups for STDs. I'm sure it's a lot safer too. I also think it would take away some of the stigma, knowing that they are concerned with safety and health of all involved. Personally, I would never do something like that, but that's my choice. I think that people should be more responsible about it.

As for the chances of it being legalized here, unlikely. It's not about religion, it's about image. As long as the government does just enough to make it look like they're doing their job, enough to keep people feeling happy enough with their lives...isn't that what they do? I think it would be one of the last countries in the world to legalize it, even after more religious countries would.

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8 years 13 weeks ago
 
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one of the most important tools to controling a population is to control sex. i dont know who wrote the book on this but this can be seen with any organization that tries to control a group of people. 
*no sex before marriage
*sex is only for procreation
*homosexuality is strictly forbidden

these rules are from which organization?

prostitution falls into this. and becuase this is not really bad govs and organizations make up lies about this profession. such as, the women are forced into it or that prostitution is the same as the child sex slave thing. 
if you talk to females here they will tell you that every single hooker has STDs .  

(coffee hasnt kicked in yet) but in my humble opinion prostition is simply a method to control a population as part of the greater "control sex" because we are all human and need sex. so by making people feel guilty or shame about their sexually desires people become easier to control.

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8 years 13 weeks ago
 
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   I respect you guy's opinion, but there is a big problem with prostitution that noone really addresses.  It does serious harm to the prostitute.  You can argue that these girls were damaged before they chose the profession, but the fact still remains that selling your body for sex takes an enormous mental and emotional toll.  So the dilemna is:  Do you want to contribute to the emotional degradation of another human being?  Does society want to take responsibility by legalizing it?

   the dude mentions that it is her choice.  I say that doesn't matter.  It is the choice of the individual to smoke or take drugs or do anything harmful to themselves, but am I being a good neighbor or good human being by perpetuating their actions, even encouraging them?  Think of the mental state a person has to be in to resort to selling their body (their most valuable possession!) for a little cash.  Especially for a woman, whose emotionals are so tied into the sex act.  How dehumanizing and demoralizing!  She is not doing it because she likes it and whether she realizes it or not, her business is changing her.  Her view of men, relationships, life... all drastically changed for the worse.  She is now no different than a pint of milk or sack of potatoes.  And every John contributes to her breakdown.  They add to her problems.  Honestly, how can any civilized person think this is ok?  Sex is supposed to be something beautiful shared between partners with mutual affection for each other.  Prostitution turns it into something invasive to the woman, as invasive and damaging as a bullet wound.

I've heard the arguments that some women are lazy and this is a much easier way to make more money; that they have nothing else to turn to; that they are uneducated; that they send the money back to family.  All of these arguments evade the main and most important issues.  Prostitution is a crime against humanity.  It can turn a special, unique individual into a cheap commodity and any government that sanctions it is making a statement that such women are worth no more than the few bucks the John buys them for.

In my eyes, women and their bodies are sacred.  Sex is a beautiful act that leads to a miracle of procreation.  Allowing it to be a legal institution will encourage more girls to trap themselves in this business and with the money that can be made, it will not be easy for them to escape.  No matter how you try to dress it up (and it seems the majority of men commenting on this topic will try to), it is a sordid business.  There is no classy way to sell your soul.  Prostitution seems to work fine for the men who buy the services.  But they take away from the girl much more than any amount of money can replace.
   

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8 years 13 weeks ago
 
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Xinyuren, you're Catholic, aren't you??? I hear it all through your posts. Posts which are, btw, actually full of logical errors! Not to mention moralising, and making judgements which you think are 'societal', but in fact are actually trained into us from various organisations.

Let me start with: it does serious harm to the prostitute.. Really? How? Why? Sex does harm?? No, if it did, there' wouldn't be over 7 billion humans on the planet, half of whom are female. Does taking money do harm? Well, again, capitalism, and for that matter, any form of trade, seems to throw that one out the window... Being beaten up? Well, yes, that can... but I'm going to say that's not prostitution, it's people forcing themselves upon others (much as you're trying to do here).

So - where's the 'harm'? Oh, I get it.. emotional harm from being a prostitute, and in that sense, having society shun her! Which basically means... it's YOU who are doing harm to HER! Your attitudes, saying she shouldn't do it, it's bad, it does harm...

You have likened prostitution to drugs, smoking, and other bad things... but again, fail to back up WHY it is harmful!

"Women's emotions are so tied up to sex". Well now, is that true? For ALL women? Or just most? Or, even just some?? And, what happened? Remember, all this lovey-dovey marriage and all crap is a very recent thing in human history. For HUNDRES of THOUSANDS of years, there was no such thing! AND,,, even when we DID get ourselves into marriages, most of them were for practical benefits... still not a sign of love for many millenia to come! Anyway, while I imagine such people don't exist in your world, there are MANY MANY people who do NOT have an emotional attachment to sex... are you going to force your preconceived notions onto them as well?? (Just as, there are many many people who have no interest in sex at all... does that mean they should enter into a relationship, just because of the' miracle'???)

The miracle.... really? You're kidding, aren't you? "sex in its proper context".... as I said just above, sex has been 'out of context' even since humans came along. Your argument fails!

"It's not ok in the west"... actually, yes, it is! You'd better go and check your facts on that one!

Would I encourage my significant female in my life? In this current society, hell no! If society was a lot more advanced, where attitudes such as those expressed by yourself were not hard-wired into our brains by the patriarchy from the moment we're born... yes! If that's what she wanted to do, why not??

Getting back to the 'moral' argument (HA!!!) please, please please, give me some logical, valid, and worthy argument as to why prostitution (pre-arranged business transaction in which 2 consenting adults exchange a service for goods/cash in a non-duplicitous way) is significantly different from going to a bar, buying a girl (or guy) a few drinks, then heading off somewhere to do the deed. Ok, drinks are cheaper (usually). Maybe, in some minds, this might lead to something further... but I'd say, for the most part, if you're going to be picked up that easy at a bar, you KNOW it's not likely to turn into anything permanent (unless the sex was really good!)

"Clearly most people do not think it's OK"... really? Where did you pull that statistic from? Btw, speaking of such things, do most people think that living in a matriarchal society would be better than living in the current patriarchal society??? Or have most sheeple never even bothered to think about it, nor the unthought-about consequences that has brought with it?

"Couples in a relationship usually have sex out of love."... no, they don't. They have sex out of a desire for sex. It might be with a person they love, but the actual act of sex is purely physical! Love and sex are 2 entirely different things....

"No matter how you try to dress it up it is a sordid business" - again, no, it's not. It's people like you, with opinions like yours, who think it is - and then go and tell other people that it is.

"Add to the fact that you will be legally opening up a can of worms.  You want to make it legal to buy a girls body?  Ok, so now I can do what I want with her.  If I batter her, is it ok as long as she agrees?" SERIOUSLY????? You've really got to be kidding!!! Just because I enter into a transaction in which I give her an agreed upon amount of currency for certain sexual actions performed by her, you honestly think I'm 'buying' her??? Please, come out of the Dark Ages.

And, as I'm sure other ppl on here will point out... just whose body are we talking about? I'm fairly sure it's the prostitutes. Doesn't SHE have the ultimate, final say in what happens to it? It's HER mind and HER emotions... why are you choosing to force her to not do something to it that will harm absolutely NO-ONE else??? She's probably going to have sex. She's probably going to use her sex to get things she wants (cars, ipads, iphones, safety, a home, a holiday, a man ...) - but you want it that she doesn't have that choice... she can only do what you tell her she's allowed to do with it!

(and, I'll come back for more later Laughing out loud)

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8 years 13 weeks ago
 
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This place is already rape central, as long as some can pay for it, you keep the numbers down.

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8 years 13 weeks ago
 
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The truth is that the factories can be more damaging to a person's health than prostitution. Certain factory jobs put people in contact with dangerous chemicals that can kill their health in only a year or two, sometimes severely shortening their lives. They aren't told of the dangers, and are barely compensated after they find out the bad news. They're easily replaced. That's not to mention the people who get hands or fingers cut off because of reduced safety standards.

When you add in the long hours, the fact that many of them do overtime so they can send money home, they stay in dorms with many other people and eat cafeteria food every day and are lucky if they have one day off a week...I don't know, certain jobs like prostitution don't sound as bad. To me, that sounds a little wrong. But if you don't have any money, no skills, I can see why some women choose to be prostitutes instead. It's really difficult to get a job outside of your town. Because of the hukou system, you're treated like a second class citizen.

If I had grown up in China, and I was facing that choice, honestly...I don't kno w what I would choose. I know which one sounds easier. We also can't forget the concept of face. If you're a factory worker, you look like a factory worker, if you even have time to go anywhere. If you're a prostitute, during the day, you can have nice clothes, have another job. It sounds like it has more freedom, and I'm sure that's how a lot of women feel. Money is very important. Considering these things, prostitution doesn't sound half as bad as it does back home.

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8 years 13 weeks ago
 
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I am just thinking that if it were legal, you could get rid of the pimp, have health inspections, provide guilt free comfort to those who are lonely and tax them like tobacco and booze. Not just in China, but everywhere.

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8 years 13 weeks ago
 
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The irony is one of the reasons I asked this question is that after reading about the prostitution ring bust in Beijing here on echinacites, I noticed the massive rant that xinyuren went on contrary to most of other peoples opinions.
I see this has not changed.
My question was not a broad one asking if prostitution in general was a bad thing.  This was China specific.  Jnusb416 hit the nail on the head when comparing factories to prostitution. 
This was my point.  Which is worse?  Compared to what is out there for opportunities for under educated females in China, and considering many "forms" of prostitution in China are pretty mild with women having the final say (especially KTV), which is worse?
xinyuren, you refuse to see this very complicated issue objectivley and are almost obsessive in your objection to any form of prostitution based almost soley on moral grounds.  You base this opinion on a few ex-prostitutes you know.  Is that a scientific study?  Or your opinion based on a couple of second hand experiences?
Contrary to what you stated earlier, most people here that have made comments are not as you say against prostitution in everyway.   In an ideal world prostitution would not exist.  Neither would drugs or crime or war or starvation.
Family pressures for children to send money home is huge, and working in a factory sucks, and makes very little money.
THIS was my main point.  Which is worse?  Compared to the alternatives?

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8 years 13 weeks ago
 
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I will not waiver on my point because it is a very strong one.  It is a matter of principle.  You are saying that if these girls don't sell their bodies they will starve.  I strongly disagree.  There are many favorable alternatives to prostitution.  I could choose to rob banks because it is easier to make lots of money.  I don't think society will agree to make bankrobbing legal.  But what if I used rubber bullets and didn't hurt anyone.  Insured banks would get their money back.  No.  I don't think so.
What's more, you are assuming legalization will make things better for the prostitues.  If you think this, you really don't know China.  You said some factories in China are worse than prostitution?  Well what about sex factories?  I shudder at the thought of it.  State instituted wholesale sex.

Principles are what makes humans different from animals.  We stick by them because they are what make us civil to each other.  To abandon them or compromise them because it is inconvenient to enforce them, is to let our fellow humans down.   Here is an interesting statement from the United Nations regarding this principle

The Convention states that "prostitution and the accompanying evil of the traffic in persons for the purpose of prostitution are incompatible with the dignity and worth of the human person".[

I could not have said it any bettersmiley

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8 years 13 weeks ago
 
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I don't think prostitution is a bad thing. And thats not big Teds opinion either. I don't think it's evil and women should not be punished for being one.

I never had any dealing with this before I came to China. I did not come here to look for it either. I would have gone to where I thought (naive) it was more prevalent, Thailand, Phillippines.
From my perspective i'm taking advantage of a girl no matter how much I pay. I think men have stronger sex drives ( I may be naive here also) but one man could repopulate the world. One woman could not.. Most men will nail almost anything they can get. I don't know many women who are this way and then we call them sluts. You know the joke ;what is the difference between a slut and a bitch" a slunt will F anything, a bitch will F anything except you.
I met a couple of hookers at home recently and had a long talk with them. I asked how can you do this? Because I think for me to be a prostitute I would have to have sex with Mattayas grandmother to be in the same boat and I think big Ted wouldn't like that or agree to it. Worse would be the reality version where it would be Mattayas grandpa, because women can get guys easier than we can get women. The hookers told me they don't mind doing it and they provide a service for money. If there was no need they would not make any money. So now I'm thinking who is taking advantage of whom? We are all trying conciously or not to manipulate each other at some level. Even my attempts to make others laugh is manipulation. 
Is prositution bad or evil, no especially compared to some of my bad jokes.
  I'm sure there is an evil element envolved where the women are beaten either by johns or pimps.
 

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8 years 13 weeks ago
 
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Women should have the right, and freedom to choose a profession or job using there skills, just like anyone else. I have known house wife’s that are what I call high class, and medium class escorts that get a huge self esteem boost, and measure there sensuality based on the amount of money they earn, or the gifts they motivate a client to give freely. It is the lower class street, and hotel workers that Society worries more about, where the motivation is money, and more money. And if the money is used to buy drugs, it is not health.

Affairs are becoming more common in every culture, with birth control. A woman with strong desires . . .  why not enjoy intimacies with men that elevate the heart beat.
Marital sex can become mundane over the years. And most women need the romantic excitement of an affair to rejuvenate her body and mind. Women need more mental stimulation, and are capable of multiple, longer, and more after the husband has given up.

I know an older man with an Asian wife that helps her find generous men for dating. They select men friends carefully that she likes, and that there is a spark of lustful attraction. He likes to drive her to her dates, and pick her up. 
With married couples, where the husband has a cuckold nature, that willingly shares his wife for lustful  dating it is legal in most countries, and cultures by common law, if there is consent, approval, and knowledge of the spouses. Both the cuckold husband, and his hot wife both enjoy the adventures.

Prostitution . . . . there needs to be a better word, that dose not have a negative stigma. It has been legal in much of history. Being discreet, and done privately may make it more exciting, and perhaps commands a higher dollar.

If my daughter wanted to engage in the lifestyle, I would be the first to accept, encourage, and help them make is more safe.

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8 years 13 weeks ago
 
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It is incredible INPORTENT and incredible dangerous
First
men outnumber women by incredible numbers In china there are not Enough . I have had the same argument with friends and I lost the simple answer is that there are not Enough  women, but there are Enough  whores in china that’s why they let it happen and that’s why they cannot make it legal there are not Enough  women to go around and they can not just say that.

secound
I have no idea how they treat sexual disease in china or how they practice safe sex and considering how it is only going to go up it is something to really worry about.

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8 years 13 weeks ago
 
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I am not going to take the time to read all the comments, but in case someone hasn't said it yet; prostitution is not so dangerous here as it is in the West.

I mean, I don't think a college student who does it for extra cash has to worry about being chopped up and stuck in a freezer.

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8 years 13 weeks ago
 
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Blast from the past ...

surprise

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3 years 30 weeks ago
 
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Hong Kong is a perfect example. Great place to live, visit and do business. Legalized prostitution demonstrates forward thinking and the women are independent (except those smuggled in by their own countrymen). 

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3 years 30 weeks ago
 
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Resurrected question after a 4 year hibernation... boring; must be hard up for points.

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3 years 30 weeks ago
 
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A: Going to HK would be the best bet I reckon, especially if you were loo
A:Going to HK would be the best bet I reckon, especially if you were looking for a church wedding. Chinese weddings are pretty grim IMO - you go to a barren govt dept with souless officials and navigate red tape so some guy can give you a red stamp and a marriage book. You get expensive pictures taken of you both posing in places you'd never go to in everyday life that is somehow supposed to represent your wedding, then a while later it's off to a restaurant where a game show host kind of guy makes sure it's as tacky as possible while the guests eat as fast as they can so they can leave as soon as they finish eating and gave you money. Hell, I'd go to Thailand or the Philippines and get married in Paradise.   -- Stiggs