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Sign up with Google Sign up with FacebookQ: Rejecting a drink
I had a dinner with several Chinese bosses (not big bosses) where alcohol and beer were served but I told them in advance that I never drink to avoid causing them any kind embarrassment. Although they all know that i don't drink , they kept trying to push me to drink and the workers came to me and talked to me aside to let me drink at least a sip just to avoid embarrassing their bosses. I kept rejecting and I explained them why I don't drink and they didn't accept my excuse as if I said nothing. At last one of the bosses turned to red and could not continue eating , so one of the workers suggested to me to pretend drinking (just pretending) and I did and then he hardly recovered. It's not the first time to happen to me. What should I do if I encountered this situation again?
Say you're religious and not allowed to drink? Worth a try. I think it's really childish when this happens. I know it's a cultural thing, but get over yourself, China. Some people don't drink, stop making everything so personal.
Silverstein:
I will try it, I will tell them if I drink I will get wrath of God and he shall burn me with lava and brimstone
Eorthisio:
Yep, they take everything so personally. "If you don't work for me then I will make sure that you will never work in China again!" and other threats for various things insignificant or important. I am so tired of this mindset.
It's a tough situation. Stand your ground on principle or endure the shit at work.
When I was an FOB I fell for the drinking a couple of times. It is a test to see how much you can drink, ergo, if you are a "man". These usually turn into one guy offering you a toast to ganbei, which you foolishly do....then one by one each person will stand and say cheers and down a glass, so basically they drink one and you drink a dozen. It is hilarious for them to see a foreigner so drunk.
I just refuse to drink nowadays and if someone loses face....meh!
andy74rc:
I had the first episode during my early days in China 10 years ago somewhere in the countryside of Nanjing. The funny thing is that I've been the one enjoying the view of the factory boss been dragged out by 2 of his managers.... :)
Nowadays I'm lucky enough to deal with suppliers that just cut on these bullshit, but if I really have to, I just bring the glass to my lips without drinking.
Which wouldn't be such a huge issue should they not mistake alcohol for piss and detergent.
The solution is to not give a shit, anyone who considers a failure to coerce me as a loss of face has it coming.
And I make sure this feels through my tone and attitude, so, no even an attempt on record to this day. They know alpha when they smell it.
I have a friend that doesn't drink. He has perfected the art of switching a glass of baijiu with a glass of mineral water without even getting noticed. It may take a bit of practice but ask for a glass of mineral water at the beginning of the evening. When you are asked to make a toast, ask for baijiu then switch. You would be surprised how often they are taken in by it.
I judge a 'man' by how well he (or she) can take rejection and not getting his way all the fkn time!
(and on standing on principles).
I agree with Riri on this one. Its the people that are all akward and uncomfortable that mostly go through this. You know chinese, they like the easy targets. If you look all mad like you might punch someone in the face at any second, youll be fine.
In your situation , when you dont want to drink at all, just fucking leave, why go? Those red faced angry Chinese are just drunk. They wont give a crap the next morning.
As for the situation when 4 guys are teaming up on you each drinking with you individually to get you drunk you really have 3 options.,
1: Go for it, just make sure its their booze. Your going to outlast them.
2: Everytime one person sais GanBei! Hold your drink up to the middle of the table and look at them all. They cant say no either. Make them all drink when you drink. It will stop, and they will stop well before you need to.
3: The Mike way. Tell them all to go &uck their mothers. I get tooo pissed off when I feel im being disrespected. You want to have some fun with the laowai?? Im going to emasculate the living shit out of all of you because not a single one of them is going to do anything about it.
When I worked, I had one of these dinners per week, at least. I've never had a single drop of alcohol during these business dinners.
Usually most dinners would be with some Chinese colleagues, a fellow countryman and some customers. There are 3 excuses used for the different groupings
Chinese colleagues: "I don't drink because I cannot tolerate alcohol and I want to be alert to not make mistakes"
Chinese customers: "I am trying to get my wife pregnant" - seems to be a totally legit excuse as people think this really matters.
Fellow countryman: "These people are nuts" - and we would often sit and drink mojito after the crazy drinking had floored all the locals.
Don't lie anymore. If they ask, straight up and tell them no and repeat until it finally burrows its way down to that tiny spot of 'empathy' within their brains. Futile, I know... but it can be achieved.
If I asked you down a bottle of bleach because it's a part of my culture, would you do it? Hell no. The only person who will feel as though they've lost face are the people forcing you to do something you don't want to do and that is that.
Stiggs:
That's what I do.
When I first came to China people told me it was polite to drink with people because it would show them I liked them. I guess this was another way to say give them face.
I usually don't have a problem drinking (unless it's that horrible baijiu) but when people try to force it on me, or I've just had enough beer and don't want to drink anymore I just say no. If the person doesn't like it too bad and if they feel I don't 'like them' because I'm not drinking with them then they're most likely right too. I would have liked him just fine until he started trying to make me puke.
This is one aspect of the Chinese culture that I really don't like. I think it's just childish and crude.
I was at a function recently with about 3 younger females and a few older people. The girls obviously didn't want to drink anything, couldn't stand the taste of it and basically got bullied into getting drunk by an older manager because "we should all be happy here". It pissed me off just watching it and my opinion of that manager went from being not very high to begin with, to disgust.
In my experience, most Chinese men are womanizing chain-smoking alcoholics, among other things. If you tell them that you don't drink, some of them will look at you like you're from another planet. I've managed to get around it by accepting one little drink, and then acting like I'm hammered. Saying something about my body not being able to adequately process the toxins in alcohol and wondering aloud whether I might die that night also helps. As it happens, my body actually cannot process alcohol very well due to one branch of my genetic heritage.
QDasmond:
There are always two dislikes from two secret Chinese men who frequent this forum.
I drank a group of Chinese under the table, felt like death, and they never invited me out again. They hate to lose.
Haha...
I have had my fair share of these games. I spoke to a bunch of businessmen while drinking and decided to cut the bullshit. I offered up some theories and they agreed that I was correct. So here is why the main reason why Chinese will try to push you to drink:
- Because people usually get happier when they drink thus creating a good mood all around and Chinese think if people aren't happy during an event then it is a failed event (well dinner and drinks anyway)
- Because people are more open when drunk, so businessmen like testing your resolve using this method to see how strong you are mentally
- Because yes, they want to see a drunk foreigner and feel superior (pissing contest)
- Because toasting gives face (or otherwise boosts their ego) and drinking is a part of male bonding and companionship
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Basically, they do this with smoking and drinking (which is why 1/3 Chinese males dies of cancer or liver failure). But anyway, if you want to not drink in a way that does not offend them you have to assert dominance. Rather than them making you feel bad about it, you have to turn the tables and make them feel bad about pushing you. Like Mike and others have said, they won't do anything but not invite you anymore (oh big loss!).
Chinese just place a ton of importance on "guan xi" and this is how they build it. Foreigners don't rely on it because we have a bit of immunity in China and also, we normally make enough to not have to rely on others to help us like the locals due to corruption.
If you want to handle the situation with finesse (like a business deal with drinks) then I suggest having a drink or two to lighten the mood but at your own pace. If they try to baijiu gang bang you then you probably don't want to do business with them anyway as they will create a ton of headaches for you with their ignorance.
Foreigners have died trying to impress their Chinese counterparts with trying to drink a lot of baijiu. I know of one German and one Korean that have done so personally.