By continuing you agree to eChinacities's Privacy Policy .
Sign up with Google
Sign up with Facebook
Q: Reponse to anti-western sentiments
This is for all the posters with loaded anti-western questions, be they self-hating westerners or dispirited locals.
While i've noticed a sharp increase in the anti-western sentiment we see on this board, I am happy to report that I have NEVER, not once in almost 5 years now been exposed to any anti-western sentiment in person. At least so far as I have seen, people have had the courtesy to keep their shit-talking confined to the internet; which is an absolutely fantastic place for it!
When I read the post about how freeloaders in China are a problem…and then reduced that problem to freeloading English teachers giving lessons at Mcdonalds, it got me thinking about something. We’re all a little bit racist...anyone saying they are not ranges from optimistically naïve to disingenuously sanctimonious. It doesn’t make us bad people either; as long as we are aware of our biases and try to use that awareness to point us in the direction of rationality.
We all tend to exaggerate the problems caused by the “other” group. What immediately comes to mind as a parallel is how you hear certain white men bashing white women for “only liking thugs” which is very very obvious code for “They like black guys and not me.” Statistically, it’s not true. Watching what people DO (and not what they say), dating website statistics show that by a healthy margin, more women of nearly all races, but especially white women, would prefer to be dating a white man based on who they respond to messages from. But all it takes is ONE girl someone likes dating a black guy to make it seem like a huge problem. Seeing as how the alternative is having to admit there is something unattractive about yourself…it’s very tempting to make it into an “other-group problem”.
This ties into the kind of anti-western attitudes we’re reading a lot of now. Demographically this is a terrible time to be an average Chinese guy. There aren’t nearly enough marriageable women to go around and then some “loser” from the west can just show up and by their passport alone get interest from lots of women? Of course there is going to be a lot of resentment. Things such as freeloaders taking advantage of whatever is take-advantageable is a big visible problem here; if you see a western person do it that can give a good excuse to vent at the “other group” for both your frustration with them in general, AND your frustration over the general problem of freeloading. Does that make it any less childish? No, it’s super childish and anyone who says that should feel stupid.
There’s nothing we as expats can really do about this…other than just carry ourselves like gentlemen (which we should anyway!) and try out damndest not to justify any prejudices. My advice to any locals posting angry anti-western comments here is just to really look in the mirror. Is it really “foreigners” who are causing the problems in your life? Are house prices sky-high because foreigners are buying them all up? No. Are salaries low because foreign firms refuse to pay wages as high as Chinese companies do? No. Foreigners didn’t cause any of those problems, and getting mad at us is taking time and energy away from working to improve your own life. People who get ahead, both Chinese and Western, spend a lot more time looking in the mirror than they do pointing fingers.
Oh right this is supposed to be a question…so what do YOU think?
I don't feel there are overtly anti-western posts here... When things talked about are not about China ("echinacities answers, the place to ask China-related questions", duh...), it's usually targeting USA, leaving completely aside all the other places labeled as "Western" : Australia, Canada, Europe, Nordic countries, NZ, and others I forgot.
Anti-western stuffs would be like "so I lived in N Western countries and issue X, Y, Z makes me mad, why on Earth those people are like that blabla...", or "all Westerners are X and Y", with no serious support for those claims apart from cherry-picked news item (ie. JustinF with his 'Westerner=pedophile" mania). It's not very hard to act a bit better than that, just being polite and pointing out the broken arguments will do.
Seems to me that the most popular type of bashing on this board is either "China bashing" (which is more so China venting) and America bashing (which is downright bashing). I generally ignore it because I think that all of the bashers have laughable or ridiculous parts to their own countries and systems, bashing is just a result of differences in reality in our countries.
Here's a quote from the Analects to summarize an appropriate reaction to all this bashing：
”A gentleman is open and poised; a petty man is unhappy and worried."
I know cynics may take a deep sigh at my quoting of Chinese philosophy (probably going to get me called out as a Chinese too) , but I honestly think people need to just chill out and live their lives more easygoing.
jetfire9000:
The reason I mentioned this quote was because I agreed with a statement Expatlife made, and I thought this quote worked well with it. In the face of all of this, there's nothing we can do, and that "we should carry ourselves like gentlemen."
Mateusz:
Like decent people.
Sorry... a bit pedantic maybe, but I don't like dividing rules of conduct into "Ladies" and "Gentlemen"... there aren't two different sets of rules based on your genitals. Basic decency is something everyone should go for.
jetfire9000:
I'm quoting Chinese philosophy here, somthing that takes a big thought and puts it into 4 tiny characters. The literal meaning appears to be very narrow, yet there is an implied meaning that is very broad and encompassing.
There's really no reason to separate this into "men and women" type "Western" rhetoric. It is the English translation states Gentleman, and in the West we often like interjecting "and women too!" into nearly every expression hat contains "man." When I read Chinese, I didn't really interperate "君子“ as literally, some manly gentleman. In fact, I only interperet it as "wise, noble, civil like person"
Let's just try to acknowledge that this sex war type ideology in our society is our own psychological and linguistic habit. This quote is meant to apply to all people.
sorrel:
on such a topic as this, i accept that the term 'gentleman' refers to everyone's behaviour, not just men.
not getting pedantic here, just lightening things up 
expatlife26:
@Sorrel: Right you are! gentlemen just seemed the right word choice nothing gender exclusive about it.
jetfire9000:
@Sorell: Oh yes, don't worry, I didn't read your comment as something angry. :o) I try my best not to do that, unless somebody is just trying way too hard to be sarcastic and cynical. If more people did that, there'd be a lot less anger here too !
99% of the foreigners i have met here in China are polite and respectful.
Enthusiastic and motivated about their time and work.
interested in participating as much as possible and learning about the life and country.
things don't always go well, but we are all aware of the danger of generalisation about any aspect of life.
having a secure place to share the frustrations is essential for sanity.
i know not everyone is going to agree with my pov, but i hope when i encounter that person i can still respond with a degree of respect.
it is interesting that when someone can't come up with a decent argument against your reasoned point, they resort to name calling.
Expat26 an interesting topic you have raised
expatlife26:
Thanks!
I agree yeah the vast majority of expats here are decent folk who are open about other cultures...especially teachers who tend to have chosen to be here instead of getting sent here against their will. Though they can become bitter and hostile if they feel trapped after a while.
There are a few comments I have to make here.
First, Expatlife has some good points. I think some of the negativity from Chinese towards Westerners could come from resentment, seeing Westerners with Chinese girls. Westerners do have an advantage with Chinese girls for a few reasons, including the simple exoticism. Westerners look different (well, Westerners not of Asian decent). Yellow fever, is a thing in the West, and it appears white fever is a thing in China, either due to physical features, or cultural background.
There is a strong view that anyone who is not Chinese (well, specifically, not Han Chinese) is a foreigner. By accepting the label "foreigner", and many Expats refer to ourselves, and other Expats, as "foreigner" as well, perpetuating that view, we accept that we are "One of those people", outsiders. "Foreigners" is a term that is not based on what you are. You're not "British", "Canadian", "German", "Australian", etc. You are one of "Them", as opposed to one of "Us". It's much easier to bash people, either individually or collectively, who belong to the "Other" category.
This is also exacerbated by contemporary Chinese culture. People in your group (Self, then family, and then close friends) matter, while people outside your group, don't. People labeled "Foreigners" are, then, the ultimate outsider. Not only are they not your family, they aren't even your own race/nationality. If you can't feel empathy for another Han Chinese bleeding out on the street, how can you feel empathy for "One of those people"?
Also, it should be noted that China really doesn't separate race/color/ethnicity and nationality. To Chinese, "Chinese" is genetic (as one student of mine put it, it's blood), and cultural, and also geographical. Yes, there are officially 56 ethnic groups, but the reality is that those who aren't Han, or look like Han, are only considered "technically Chinese". You can observe this in action whenever someone claims a person "looks foreign" or has a "Chinese face". "Chinese" = "Yellow", full stop.
That view is also taken to non-Chinese. "Foreign" is taken to be an ethnic group. "Foreigners" don't look like Chinese, don't think like Chinese, and don't belong in China... it's a view that would be unthinkable in the West outside of a Klan rally, or meeting of the British National Party.
In the US, there is a strong cultural view that everyone should be seen as equally part of America, regardless of race or color.
This also might lead to Chinese taking things differently than is meant. If a Westerner complains about Corruption in China, then they're insulting China the country, and the "Chinese race" (at least as it exists in the minds of many Chinese). Conversely, a Chinese complaining about US wars in the Middle East is less likely to be taken as "Racist against Americans", since there is no similar view of an "American race".
White Westerners complaining about pollution, or even lack of manners, are not saying, "Yellow people are filthy", but rather that China, as a country, has a problem with pollution, or empathy for others. However, to a Chinese mindset, it might be perceived differently than meant (though, that isn't to say all criticism of China are devoid of racism, but just that Westerners don't perceive China the same way Chinese do).
Sinobear:
You humans may disdain the term "foreigner." I, on the other hand, am quite comfortable with the term "alien."
People complain because they are too free. If they were so busy then they wouldn't have time to complain at all, much less raising anti western sentiments. However, some of them do go overboard with their criticisms to the point that it gets personal. I just don't see how one can criticize anyone without first knowing him/her. To me, it's just a lot of BS. Just be yourself and if you want people to accept you then you should also accept other people as well.
Nessquick:
very right.
always, when I have a free minute, I come here and read and sometimes release steam...
I was seriously thinking about, to stop this, because it gives me bad mood sometimes and turn me back into bashing machine 
. But I really like some people here on this board and very like their comments and inspirations. 
--
Scandinavian:
The lives that people strive to have is that they see on the primetime soaps on TV.
expatlife26:
it's the same reason americans hate sweden and norway...because those countries are clearly better than ours.
I'm of purely swedish descent but I would never admit that to another american. I just say i'm German.
bill8899:
I don't hate Sweden and Norway. Am I missing something? Is it FUN?!?!
I do hate it when there's no hot water for my shower, but I have nothing against those people. Unless they stole my hot water, then there's gonna be trouble.
icnif77:
@bill: 'In some Hotels in China, they have water faucets from Cayman Islands. Hot water is on other side than in West
. Before u step in the can you must think: 'I'll shower today with cold water!', and then hot water starts to pouring out. It happened to me several times. 
. Once I was in the middle of nothing, in between Jiamusi and Huachuan, Heilong. After few days of cold shower, I realize I should turn switch to the R side for hot water. I could brew tea in the shower, if on R. O2
We've always had trouble making anti-western posters, usually posing as westerners, Loke, Snowballs, some Chinese 918**8
I like 'Up-yours', because he stick it to them! He said: ''My 'leek soup' can be eaten with 'kuaizi'',
before he left HK for MamaP.
Is that 'anti Western' or...?
icnif77:
I know, you were absent at our last intel-meeting here! I looked at your attendace sheet carefully.
Despite our 'confidentiality agreement' I'll explain to you (in public) tread for the last time:
Q: 'What would be the most proper English replacement word for phrase 'Up-yours'?
A: 'Snowden'
In new meta-banana-data world, we're required to speak in codes!
