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Q: RP transfer and new FEC (tricky question)
Here's my situation:
My current contract doesn't expire until the end of July, but my boss is willing to provide paperwork to the next school for successful transference.
Working together with my employer, I had a small university in Beijing attempting to do the online portion of applying for my FEC earlier this month.
After half a month, they still had not answered many of my questions about transferring my residence permit, and the new HR staff even admitted she had no idea how to do any visa processes (a French major with no experience).
After a month I found they were attempting to apply for a completely NEW z visa, and the HR staff asked me how to do the work permit part of the process....
After I convinced them they are doing the wrong visa process, I realized that they wanted me to transfer my RP and FEC under their name starting in July. This means when I finish I must wait all of August with no pay or housing before the contract started Sep. 1st.
Their HR was incompetent and kept failing at simple tasks as her paperwork kept getting rejected by the online system.
She asked me multiple stupid questions and in the end tried to put the blame on me when I told the Dean I want someone more competent to do this process.
These factors made me change my mind and tell them I'm going with another employer.
They weren't very happy and even threatened to 'tell the FEB and other universities that I was not loyal, patient, and did not cooperate with them on the process".
First of all, can they carry out any threat like this? Sounds childish and benign to me.
Second of all, if my new job (with equal or more guanxi) begins processing my paperwork online, will they hit a problem at all that the uni could have caused through their incompetence and failure?
7 years 47 weeks ago in Visa & Legalities - China
All paperwork needed for successful RP transfer are two documents: Release letter and FEC Cancel certificate.
If your present employer is willing to let you go - terminate the Contract, they must issue Release letter (with red stamp and signature on the bottom) and they must cancel your FEC online, and give you cancelation cert.
With both docs. your new employer will be able to apply for new FEC and change records at PSB about your (new) RP sponsor. There will be no changes in your passport.
You'll might be required new Medical exam, especially if you'll change Province.
If your new employer will apply for new Working permit and Invitation letter, you'll be required to exit China and apply for new Z visa, most likely in your home country's Chinese Embassy (or HK, if lucky!)
Dial SAFEA (Foreign Expert Bureau) in your Province and ask them for help and advice. Enter 'SAFEA' in search above for address and contact no. of Provincial Headquarters.
Ring a phone and offer detailed explanation of situation/problem over the email, after you'll get an email address of answering SAFEA's agent, i.e. 'don't use email posted on the web link, because that rarely gets answered'.
Good luck!
Zethe:
Thank you, I know the process through and through.
The university, however, did not. They kept asking my boss and I for visa advice..
Zethe:
My current boss even offered to give the release letter and FEC cancelation papers at the beginning of July to help the university get the process done early. The university was refusing to do any work on my visa transfer in August, and my visa was going to expire Sep. 7th.
icnif77:
If I understood your post right, you want new employer apply for new FEC, before old one is canceled. That is impossible!
For new FEC, employer must present signed Contract, Release letter and FEC Cancel cert. You must resign your job in order old employer can cancel FEC and then give you FEC cancel cert. with which new employer can apply for new FEC.
PSB is very tied up with extension of RP, i.e. PSB won't extend your RP earlier than a week, before expiration. I was pushing my employer in Henan last year at Contract renewal to hit PSB for extension two weeks ahead of expiration. We were send away with instruction to return a week before the end of RP.
Zethe:
I think you misunderstand buddy.
I know the documents necessary for the FEC process.
The university kept INSISTING that my boss provide a release letter and FEC cancelation a month before my contract with her ended, and was trying to start the online procedure of getting a new FEC a month before THAT (in total 2 months early).
I kept telling them it's better to do it when my contract ends the end of July, as I still have until September when my visa expires, but they did not want to do any work in August, and wanted me to start the process very early.
Not only that, but the way they arranged it, they wanted me to work a my current employer's place until the end of July AFTER cancelling my FEC, so they can start the transfer process early and force me to work illegally a whole month while they take their sweet time messing documents up.
icnif77:
Your new employer doesn't have a clue how the Release letter can be done properly. They don't even know meaning of RL. It means, FT doesn't owe anything to the Co., it means FT returned all stuff Co. supplied...i.e. apartment and all Co.'s stuff in it. How can an old employer issue RL before the end of the Contract?
I had similar request from my present employer. After lengthy explanations, I realized she just don't know anything about foreign employee and quitting the job. Reason, why police almost arrested me in the classroom last week was also, because she didn't tell cops I moved into new apartment.
You'll get a lot of talk, but no actions. Just tell them you'll find new suitable employer. You will also dial SAFEA for the real Chinese employment rules explanation. Once, you'll mention SAFEA, they'll shape up fast.
TIC.
All paperwork needed for successful RP transfer are two documents: Release letter and FEC Cancel certificate.
If your present employer is willing to let you go - terminate the Contract, they must issue Release letter (with red stamp and signature on the bottom) and they must cancel your FEC online, and give you cancelation cert.
With both docs. your new employer will be able to apply for new FEC and change records at PSB about your (new) RP sponsor. There will be no changes in your passport.
You'll might be required new Medical exam, especially if you'll change Province.
If your new employer will apply for new Working permit and Invitation letter, you'll be required to exit China and apply for new Z visa, most likely in your home country's Chinese Embassy (or HK, if lucky!)
Dial SAFEA (Foreign Expert Bureau) in your Province and ask them for help and advice. Enter 'SAFEA' in search above for address and contact no. of Provincial Headquarters.
Ring a phone and offer detailed explanation of situation/problem over the email, after you'll get an email address of answering SAFEA's agent, i.e. 'don't use email posted on the web link, because that rarely gets answered'.
Good luck!
Zethe:
Thank you, I know the process through and through.
The university, however, did not. They kept asking my boss and I for visa advice..
Zethe:
My current boss even offered to give the release letter and FEC cancelation papers at the beginning of July to help the university get the process done early. The university was refusing to do any work on my visa transfer in August, and my visa was going to expire Sep. 7th.
icnif77:
If I understood your post right, you want new employer apply for new FEC, before old one is canceled. That is impossible!
For new FEC, employer must present signed Contract, Release letter and FEC Cancel cert. You must resign your job in order old employer can cancel FEC and then give you FEC cancel cert. with which new employer can apply for new FEC.
PSB is very tied up with extension of RP, i.e. PSB won't extend your RP earlier than a week, before expiration. I was pushing my employer in Henan last year at Contract renewal to hit PSB for extension two weeks ahead of expiration. We were send away with instruction to return a week before the end of RP.
Zethe:
I think you misunderstand buddy.
I know the documents necessary for the FEC process.
The university kept INSISTING that my boss provide a release letter and FEC cancelation a month before my contract with her ended, and was trying to start the online procedure of getting a new FEC a month before THAT (in total 2 months early).
I kept telling them it's better to do it when my contract ends the end of July, as I still have until September when my visa expires, but they did not want to do any work in August, and wanted me to start the process very early.
Not only that, but the way they arranged it, they wanted me to work a my current employer's place until the end of July AFTER cancelling my FEC, so they can start the transfer process early and force me to work illegally a whole month while they take their sweet time messing documents up.
icnif77:
Your new employer doesn't have a clue how the Release letter can be done properly. They don't even know meaning of RL. It means, FT doesn't owe anything to the Co., it means FT returned all stuff Co. supplied...i.e. apartment and all Co.'s stuff in it. How can an old employer issue RL before the end of the Contract?
I had similar request from my present employer. After lengthy explanations, I realized she just don't know anything about foreign employee and quitting the job. Reason, why police almost arrested me in the classroom last week was also, because she didn't tell cops I moved into new apartment.
You'll get a lot of talk, but no actions. Just tell them you'll find new suitable employer. You will also dial SAFEA for the real Chinese employment rules explanation. Once, you'll mention SAFEA, they'll shape up fast.
TIC.
If they were rejected then the chances are there will be no problems. Chinese have a severe inferiority complex and therefore will often resort to empty threats to try and make themselves seem big. Now what you said about waiting, some schools will do that if your visa will not expire and will be assholes about not allowing you to move in until a few days before your contract starts. During the interview ask about the move in date. Make clear that this is important to you, many schools will oblige.
"I realized that they wanted me to transfer my RP and FEC under their name starting in July. This means when I finish I must wait all of August with no pay or housing before the contract started Sep. 1st."
So? What's what ALL of us have to go through!! When you change employers, you don't get paid for your time off. Why would you expect otherwise?? I've NEVER heard of a situation where a BRAND NEW employer will employ someone to do NOTHING for a month or two - and yet get all the benefits.. (well, ok, not outside of management of the owner's kid, or guanxi things...). So, on this factor, you're being EXTREMELY UNFAIR on the school!
"First of all, can they carry out any threat like this? Sounds childish and benign to me."
Well, yes, they can do that. Will it make any difference? Possibly. Depends how well they get on with the other school's bosses... if you have the qualifications, experience, and looks, no-one else will take it seriously. If you don't, it could be an issue.
"Second of all, if my new job (with equal or more guanxi) begins processing my paperwork online, will they hit a problem at all that the uni could have caused through their incompetence and failure?"
Unlikely to be a problem. The stamps are all that matter. And especially unlikely if changing province. And, if it's rejected online, then she probably didn't put in the right information in the right place - so should be rejected.
But...TIC. So, yes, probably you'll never be able to work here again due to one incompetent person (who isn't actually the HR girl.. it's the boss who hired her to do the job that's actually incompetent!)
Zethe:
They never called the bureau once for advice, instead calling my previous boss multiple times for advice on how to do the visa.
My documents are all legitimate and I'm (over) qualified...
icnif77:
The SAFEA apparently doesn't give any info to Chinese employers. My boss is working on new FEC asked me last week:
- 'Where did you work in China?'
- 'Tell me all FECs durations you had!'
Me: 'I don't know. Why don't you ask Gov.? They have an online data for each FEC issued?'
She: 'If you don't have 'relations' (guanxi) with them, they won't tell you anything! I must fill-up form for FEC.'
Zethe:
I emailed the university officially ending our 'agreement to have a contract and transfer my visa to them', and stating clearly in the email I have conversational proof (pictures and phone recordings) of their HR asking my boss and I multiple times HOW TO DO A VISA, as well as pictures of them apologizing for botching some paperwork here and there that ended up getting rejected (bad translation of resume, contract had no page numbers, etc.).
Then I insinuated to name and shame on every ESL website I find, and have my boss help me call the FEB to explain that the university was incompetent and uncooperative in our visa transfer, so we chose a different job.
Then I wished them luck on their foreign teacher search.
They emailed me saying that "it is better that both sides remain calm and not waste time on such trivial issues, we wish you luck in your future jobs in or outside Beijing".
I assume this is a way of saying forget about it.
Zethe:
I don't think this is unfair at all. I was asking for housing on campus at the very least, with no pay the first month. After all, my RP and FEC would be under THEIR name, and the housing doesn't really cost them that much extra compared to the hundreds of thousands (or more) they make off their students and the government..
Also, half pay during holidays?
I was not asking for much.
Chinese companies (including universities) are generally just cheap and styngy.
Zethe:
Shining_brow...as for your TIC comment.
I'll have to take advantage of that in some other ways to make sure I do stay...
Shining_brow:
"it is better that both sides remain calm and not waste time on such trivial issues,"
Is the usual line when they've fucked up and don't want other people to know about it! And, they can't find an easy way to blame someone else (ie, YOU!)
Inability of a HR person specifically placed to handle the FTs visa is NOT a 'trivial issue'.
Expecting free accommodation for a month - for a complete unknown - is something that's highly unlikely to happen! It doesn't matter how much money they are making, or any other considerations YOU may consider - it just doesn't happen!!! Half pay for a school you've never worked for before??? Hell no! If you were an employer, would you risk losing that money??? YOUR money?
You might get a week's accommodation out of them... if you're lucky.
And - yes, it actually IS unfair! To them...
Zethe:
@Shining_brow, ok I think I see your point about the housing part.
However, my line of thinking was that my RP and FEC would be under their name, so they wouldn't have to fear me skipping out on them. Why not provide the housing on campus in August? It's the same as when I would have started work in September.
If I left abruptly...TIC...so it wouldn't bode well for me obviously anyway.
Shining_brow:
Because you want free accommodation... I mean, just using the word 'free' is punishable by death here! (obviously, that's only true when it's the foreigner who wants something for free...)
Trust me, they're going to give you so many excuses for why you can't.. AND, even if you suggest a 'fair' price to pay for it, there will still be lots of excuses. Most likely, you'd have to cough up a LOT more than the actual costs to be able to stay there...
As for the point about not running - tell that to everyone else who has been done over by a runner!
Zethe:
Well anyway, they were incompetent in doing the visa, so I went with SMIC Beijing.
Much better offer, professional environment, and a 2 bedroom apartment for my fiance and I!
The levels of incompetence, combined with a morbid fear of exercising initiative, along with a shocking lack of motivation, produce crap. Which is what they've got.
Objective confirmed.
royceH:
That said, good luck mate.
And the same to me too, as I'm going through the same process even as we speak.
Shining_brow:
Sorry - but you did forget to mention "complete and utter lack of personal responsibility".
