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Posts: 430

Shifu

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Q: As a secular society, why does Atheism not have a greater voice here?

In many Western countries I feel like there's always a raging debate going on between the Christian camp and the atheist one. I even saw posters advertising atheism when I was in the UK a few years ago. I haven't really noticed any debates here. Religion in generally doesn't seem to be talked about here much. I find it strange.

12 years 8 weeks ago in  Culture - China

 
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Posts: 2604

Shifu

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Religion isn't talked about in many places including the states. Your not supposed to talk about religion at work or at school. If you want to follow your religion do it at home or go to the church. I'm not sure where your from but that's how it is in the states too. At least at work and school your not supposed to bring that type of topic up unless you are taking a religion class.

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12 years 8 weeks ago
 
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Emperor

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Despite what the oh-so-knowlegeable Mattie says, religion is still a very restricted topic here in China.  The government sees it as a very real threat to their power and they control it very tightly.

It is against the law to actively advocate any religion outside of strictly controlled venues such as recognized churches, temples, etc...  That is why you won't see it debated, advertised, etc...

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12 years 8 weeks ago
 
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i can only speak from my experience in america. for some dumb reason many people in america believe that they must make others believe what they believe. also they believe they should force the govt to make laws forcing others to adopt their religious practices/ non religious practices. (sunday blue laws) one of the things china does right is this principle: your religious/non-religious beliefs are your own personal do not try to make converts!!

in usa the atheist movement was neccessary to repel churches from influencing the govt, now the atheist movement is slowing becoming just as intolerant as some churches. 
people need to understand that religious beliefs are between us and our god/ non god. we should not use the govt to try and enact laws that places anyones personal beliefs over others. 
exhibit A: a woman was fired from a religious (christian) private  school. the reason she was fired is because she got sick, she took time off, got better, and wanted to return to work. the supreme court ruled  (unanimously) that the church law trumps the americans with disabilities act. (mind you they are not acting as a church in this regard but as a school and an employeer, and becoz of their tax free status they could have afforded to take her back) 2012 better be the end mankind does not deserve to see 2013.
already local govts are moving to pass law that muslim law is never to be applied. i am not a gifted writer and 90% of the time i'm not in a clear state of mind. but WTF

Shining_brow:

Just a quick question - if Muslim law is being banned, what about the position of Christian law?

12 years 8 weeks ago
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crimochina:

that's my point . it is a despicable policy. the supreme court decided that religious groups fall outside of some civil laws (which i disagree with) but that policy is not going to be applied to muslims. it is so stupid

12 years 8 weeks ago
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GuilinRaf:

Ineresting, would you havee name and or citation of the case you mention in Exhibit A?

12 years 8 weeks ago
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xinyuren:

crimochina, this "dumb" reason you speak of is because it is a Bible command. This is obvious to those who actually read the book. If a person who sincerely reads the Bible wants to act on their faith, they are compelled to share it for the Bible itself advocates such spirit. Of course, many misguided people in history have been intolerant and even violent in their efforts to "share" Bible knowledge, not to mention countless so-called holy wars. This does not change the fact that the Bible was not written for just personal use. By it's own claim, it was written to be shared with others.

12 years 8 weeks ago
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crimochina:

daily show 1/26 7 and a half minutes in. discusses the decision here is an article http://www.employmentattorneyoh.com/2011/10/school-teachers-disability-discrimination-case-heard-in-high-court.shtml

12 years 8 weeks ago
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crimochina:

http://www.disabilityrightsoregon.org/the-dro-blog/supreme-court-decision-allows-disability-discrimination this is a recent article

12 years 8 weeks ago
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GuilinRaf:

Thanks!

12 years 8 weeks ago
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crimochina:

shared with others vs imposed on others. i agree the bible does state to spread the word. minister to others if they refuse to accept your message knock the dust of your shoes and move on. where does it say petition the govt to make christian law the law of the land. where does it say to come in with a gang of missionaries and annoying the hell out of people until they submit. where does it say launch military campaigns to spread religion. the problem is churches corrupt religion. people use religion to establish a power base and gather wealth. and then they corrupt govts in order to protect it. i rather the religious culture of china vs the religious culture of america.

12 years 8 weeks ago
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12 years 8 weeks ago
 
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Why would they bother? Most people here don't have a clear idea of their religion anyway.

They can't outrightly ban religion, because all of those cultural superstition come from religion.

I've met many who say they don't believe in something, and then say or do something which indicates that they quite clearly do!

But (other than the above answers), why would atheism try to preach to people? For most atheists, there's no need to preach to anyone about anything... it's the other religions that would need to do some work to get converts.

GuilinRaf:

Actually, I know of one "Evangelical Atheist" back home. If he hears any mention of religion, no matter what kind (Eastern, Western, Animist, Pagan, Spiritualist, etc.) he will rip into the person and try his best to convince him/her or the error of his or her ways. He will start polite and if the chat goes his wayh, he will remain so. However, if the person does not back down or tries to change the subject he becomes more heated. The irony is that he does not see that he has become exactly like many of these "in your face" preachers. Granted, he is the only one I know personally, but being a big world out there, there may be more like him.

12 years 8 weeks ago
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12 years 8 weeks ago
 
Posts: 660

Shifu

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I think the simple answer is that as a secular society, they just dont care. If religion doesnt have a loud voice in a society, then of course there wont be any loud voice opposing it.

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12 years 8 weeks ago
 
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Perhaps the reason you see the "great debate" going on in the west is because for many of those involved, it becomes an "either/or" argument, as if the existence of one viewpoint negates the other. This is simply based on many of the assumptions of western philosophy. The west, for the most part, hasn't reached that point where if someone believes one thing, it is perfectly acceptable for someone else to believe something else. Live your life according to your belief, harming no other person in the process.

And, as crimo stated, atheistic belief is becoming just as adamant about proving it's point, through such writings as Richard Dawkins and the arguments of Kai Nielsen. At stake is public perception, and the attempt by one group or the other to knock their opponates ideas out of the public arena and thus, from public consiousness.

Eastern philosophical trends have mostly been argued along an "either/and" discussion, meaning there are multiple answers to the same question. If you want to believe something, fine. I can beleive something else, even if it is inherently contridictory.

The bottom line is, in China, you can believe anything you want to, as long as it doesn't upset the status quo, meaning, current sociological and political structure. Although offical government policy, China, as a society and culture, is far from being atheistic, which is essentially, a rejection of belief in any deity or deities (or the supernatural). Many Chines believe in a host of incorproal beings which influence and shape events and outcomes.

So, the reason why you don't see the debate here could be that it is really a moot point. Believe what you want, just give others the same courtesy. For most, it's just different food on the same table.

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12 years 8 weeks ago
 
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Religion is like a penis.

It's fine to have one.

It's fine to be proud of it.

But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around,

And PLEASE don't try to shove it down my children's throats.

Shining_brow:

Does size matter?

12 years 8 weeks ago
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crimochina:

i agree. 100% and my religion is bigger than yours!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)

12 years 8 weeks ago
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12 years 8 weeks ago
 
Posts: 458

Shifu

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The debate just doesn't apply, the atheist movement has not had to face the idiocy of the Intelligent Design retards, and nor is there an 'atheist movement' to speak of. That, more than anything else, has been the driving force in the 'God' debate in the English-speaking world for decades. Further, nothing else is properly debated, or allowed to be properly debated, I'd find it exceptional if this was the one issue that were to gain that mantle.

crimochina:

where are you from? in usa there is an atheist movement it is necessary to repel the church control of the govt. but the way they are going about is by insulting people for their beliefs instead of addressing the issue of churches should have no influence over govt. there are many church going folks who dont want churches to influence govt. the atheist movement should tap into this instead of insulting them

12 years 8 weeks ago
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yian:

The whole thing in the States is unique to there. I'm from the UK and the debate has very little to do with politics. Do give an example of the difference: in the USA potential presidential candidates MUST show that they believe in God; if you do this in the UK you're likely to lose. We like our leaders to be athiest, or to keep their religious beliefs private.

12 years 8 weeks ago
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