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Q: Should facist groups be banned?
Theresa May in a statement said Far right groups are banned in the UK. Although I hate racist groups they have a right to express themselves and assemble
6 years 35 weeks ago in Transport & Travel - China
I don't condone violence from either side and im no fan of white exsteamist bullies .
Just a question to the Americans here.
Those status and monuments to the confederatsy ..did General Lee or Andrew Jackson do everything noble or were they just aheet wearing slavers ?
Marcos_Cisneros:
The atrocious spelling in Bravery's post renders it basically unintelligible....i.e., extremist, please, confederacy, please, and what the devil is aheet ? Is it some kind of Australian slang?
iWolf:
Seriously marcos? Criticising spelling on a forum is the best you have. You really are a fuckwit. Phil is a better man on his worst day than a lying piece of shit like you could dream to be in your biggest fantasy facebook profile. Take a chill pill, dickhead.
Marcos_Cisneros:
iWolf, do write a book one day about what life in the gutter is like. And your current Cantonese wife ... which number is she? Five? Six? From what I hear, at least the third.
iWolf:
lol...you are a clown. And once again you prove that you don't know shit about anything. I understand that it must burn to see others happy who have a real life whereas your pathetically flaccid existence revolves around making up fantasy about yourself and others. Dude, that is just sad. Your life is just sad. You are just sad.
Interesting question Ted....
Yes, they have the right to express themselves and assemble but maybe the question is, should they have that right?
I hate them too, I put them in the same category as gangs, maybe not quite in the same league as far as being a menace to society but certainly in the same ballpark.
The thing with banning them is that, like gangs, it's pretty hard to stamp something like that out. In fact, driving them underground would probably make them worse.
I don't know that they should be able to march down a street, armed, spewing hate and encouraging more bullshit and violence in society though, there's enough of that already.
Englteachted:
That's the thing they weren't really encouraging violence. Watch the videos, they were actually attacked by the counter protesters. Essentially Trump was actually correct to blame both sides
Stiggs:
I meant what the facist groups do in general, not just what they did on that day although you could argue that them being there with their torches, flags, chants etc was highly provocative and they knew it and no doubt intended it to be that way.
When you go out of your way to get in people's faces and offend them, insult them, goad them then you get attacked... who really started the fight there?
whocaresreally:
when you apply to protest at a public park with notice, the people that don't want to hear can go somewhere else, they don't do this at work, trains, buses, airports etc.
anybody can protest without violence being used and people who violate their right are criminals. Can white racists block a Martin luther king Jr speech?, Can jews block Mormons from going into a Mormon temple with protestors? Can i get a bunch of people together and not let anyone go into the Trump Plaza in New York?
I may hate your guts but I will die defending your right to voice your opinion. This is the way it is supposed to be.
Stiggs:
Yeah I hear what you're saying, and I mostly agree with you.
But, should there be a point where the message you're promoting and the values you stand for just aren't allowed to be voiced in public because they're highly offensive enough that there are going to be people calling you out on what you're saying and trouble is inevitable?
For example, if NAMBLA (North American Man Boy Love Association) decided they wanted to hold a rally and got the permits and everything, should that be allowed?
Some would say 'if you don't want to hear a bunch of pedo scum don't go to the rally', but a lot of others would say 'nope, that's not acceptable in my society and I want to shut them down'.
Should a group advocating what they do be allowed to rally? Would the people who try to shut them down be criminals or stand up members of society saying this is not ok?
I don't condone violence from either side and im no fan of white exsteamist bullies .
Just a question to the Americans here.
Those status and monuments to the confederatsy ..did General Lee or Andrew Jackson do everything noble or were they just aheet wearing slavers ?
Marcos_Cisneros:
The atrocious spelling in Bravery's post renders it basically unintelligible....i.e., extremist, please, confederacy, please, and what the devil is aheet ? Is it some kind of Australian slang?
iWolf:
Seriously marcos? Criticising spelling on a forum is the best you have. You really are a fuckwit. Phil is a better man on his worst day than a lying piece of shit like you could dream to be in your biggest fantasy facebook profile. Take a chill pill, dickhead.
Marcos_Cisneros:
iWolf, do write a book one day about what life in the gutter is like. And your current Cantonese wife ... which number is she? Five? Six? From what I hear, at least the third.
iWolf:
lol...you are a clown. And once again you prove that you don't know shit about anything. I understand that it must burn to see others happy who have a real life whereas your pathetically flaccid existence revolves around making up fantasy about yourself and others. Dude, that is just sad. Your life is just sad. You are just sad.
What's that ol' maxim? 'Give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile' ....... to me that's the problem with all this social engineering and another reason I like PRC no PC approach to things.
You say down with Righty,, well, to be fair I can say down with Lefties. Fair is Fair, right? Then some gomer can say, hey, that Confederate statue sux 'nads! Get rid of it,,, it hurts my feelings! Then I can say,,, why the heck u memorialising Lincoln! He had us killed by the thousands,,, hurts my feelings,,, get rid of it!
I figure a person should be able to do pretty much anything they wanna do, short of actually bringing physical harm.
But, lotsa people say ,,, well, the majority wants it this way, ,,, that's when I say,, just be careful,,, take an inch,, then they take a mile.
Stiggs:
I agree. Mostly.
When you say people should be able to whatever as long as they don't bring physical harm that's where I have a problem with the hate groups. Seems to me bringing harm is what they're all about, if not actual physical harm then bullying, racial abuse and encouraging others to do the harm.
I couldn't care less about whether or not some statues are torn down.
I think of it from a forbidden fruit perspective. When you try and ban something like that you write the recruitment material for the people with nasty agendas trying to sound reasonable.
Same with all the protesting. There is nothing that people on the far right want more than to have a mob of leftists come and disrupt their speaking events...preferably a mob of unattractive people including overweight women and effeminate men (i.e. nobody that their followers would respect) shouting slogans which make it clear they have no idea what their target actually thinks. Then regardless of whatever trash they showed up to talk they have a valid point that a bunch of (fellow) losers are trying to silence them for political reasons.
Without the protestors nobody would give a shit about people like Milo. For god sakes, banning/deplatforming/protesting these people & groups is giving them exactly what they want!
Shining_brow:
If the media outlets weren't so intent on getting sales, this might be valid.
But, if one group protests, and the media covers it.. and there's no opposition, then it may be taken as a form of tacit consent or condonement.
So, if the KKK had a big rally in downtown Austin, and the media only shows them - and no-one else to protest against them, then the image given is that all of Austin supports the KKK. This is especially true when looking at tiny minorities who are given air time!
expatlife26:
i would disagree because that there need not be a huge rowdy counter protest to the KKK or nazis. At least in the context of america. Hear my out, my friend.
If nazis are marching down the street the BEST thing that could happen is the news covering them doing that to an empty street. Then you just see a bunch of trashy angry losers goosestepping around in nazi costumes and nobody giving a shit.
Going out and opposing these ass clowns validates them. The KKK has about 6,000 members nationwide according to SPLC. 6000 too many, of course. But 6000 is still a tiny tiny number in the grand scheme of things in a country of 330 million. They are poor, they are rural and they are irrelevant.
EXCEPT when the news covers them like they are a powerful, existential threat to american democracy. If a massive crowd is out there protesting them, they must be a big deal right?
Even counting for the fact that many hipsters are pathetic, there are enough hipsters in portland oregon to neutralize the KKK threat nationwide if they put their minds to it.
The other thing is that when you have an organization like the KKK or some nazi group marching down the street it's not as if there needs to be visible opposition. I know Charlottesville, it's a college town and about as liberal as you'd expect it to be. Nobody is going to read a paragraph saying white surpremecists marched in charlottesville to very low turnout and think that Charlottesville must be a Nazi town.
Shining_brow:
So - which do you think is better... the cameras showing the goose-step rally with no-one else in sight... or no media coverage at all?
Englteachted:
Shining you're wrong. People should be more sophisticated and more reasonable.
But expatlife your estimates are way off. Although the KKK may have officially that number of members but there are over 917 racist groups
https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:White_supremacist_groups_in_the_United_States
And let's not forget their sympatizers
The question with freedom is not should everyone have it, the answer is yes.
The question with freedom is, what for?
Here lies the tricky part, once given free will, how do you know what that person is going to do with it, join KKK, fly a plane into some building, or invent a cure for cancer?
En masse speaking, I don't see this experiment with free will going that well. Simply look at nature, the state it is in relative to a mere few hundred years ago.
ScotsAlan:
Thumbs up. Ultra left and ultra right both have a habit of denying free will. As does religion.
earthizen:
Under various labels extremist groups exist in abundance throughout mankind's history. What do they use their free will for? To conduct violence and deceit in the process of achieving their goals.
With KKK and the likes the question is, should they be allowed to use freedom of speech as their shield to promote racism? If that is fine do nothing. Not fine? Take away that precious shield from them.
If you steal, get caught, you go to jail and lose your freedom. It does not mean the entire world lose their freedom and go to jail with you.
Thoughts should never be a crime.
For example, that American dude that was arrested this week for planting a bomb in Oklahoma. Wow. Very dodgy. Because it seems the FBI sold him the dud bomb and "facilitated" it. Sting ops are bad. Especially when coupled with plea bargains.
Also in the news this week is a 26 year old teacher, in court for assaulting a Nazi at Berkeley last year. Her arguement is that there was no crime. She was defending herself and her country against Nazis.
Both my late grandfathers fought the Nazis. One on land, and one in the boiler room of HMS Sheffield. I will never know what they done, or what they went through, because they refused to talk about it.
Forget this Neo Nazi, alt right, white power shit. A Nazi is a Nazi.
Trumps comments this week, insulted my Grandfathers and Great uncles.He insults the Italian widow who lived next door to where I grew up.AI woman who was alone all her life because of the memory of her husband who died fighting the Nazis. A woman who fled Italy, and was taken in and cared for.
And lets not forget, those nasty people with their bamboo torches and Nazi chants hate white men who have married " outside their race". According to them, I am a race traitor.
They say they are defending "white European culture". Ha ha. They have no idea.
So yeah. Simple solution. Don't ban them. Banning is wrong.
Just make it legal to beat the shit out of them. The same as it was in Europe 39-45.
They took 50 million lives 70 years ago, and they took a life last weekend. No more life should be lost to these scum.
A strong opinion I know, especially coming from a so called Muslim apologist. But lets get it straight. These Nazis have no reason to hate. They hate for the sake of it. Privileged white guys who just need to hate. Fucking nutters.
But Trump says some of them are nice. Go to Arlington Mr President. Tell that to the people who died fighting them.
Englteachted:
"For example, that American dude that was arrested this week for planting a bomb in Oklahoma. Wow. Very dodgy. Because it seems the FBI sold him the dud bomb and "facilitated" it. Sting ops are bad. Especially when coupled with plea bargains.
"
You seem to not understand the difference between thoughts and action.
buying a bomb (even if you buy it from Micky Mouse) means intent to put thoughts to action
earthizen:
Focused continous thoughts, given enough time, become actions. This is the relationship between thoughts and actions.
Even CCP cannot indict you just for thinking about overthrowing them, alone. Who knows what you are thinking all day long if you keep your mouth shut?
It isn't that long ago when CCP's Confucius Institutes are evicted from American universities. Initially, they used cultural exchange and promotion as their cover to get their way in. When their hidden agenda got blown and they were caught promoting something else they got kicked out.
Are American universities anti Chinese culture? Of course not.
Coming back to KKK, should their operating license (probably registered as a non-profit making organisation) be revoked, is the American government against freedom of speech? No, the America government is against racism. It is important to have clarity here.
Here is a scenario. You are the owner of a radio station. KKK calls you up and offer you a big chunk of money for using your station to broadcast their messages. What would you say, yes or no?
Suppose you say no, why can't USA say no, and ban KKK? Let all Americans exercise their free will and vote on this.
ScotsAlan:
EngTed. I feel nervous about sting operations. I suppose there are two types. The first where the police act on a tip off, the second where they actively advertise a nefarious offer and seek takers.
The former, erm, ok. Scenario could be a police informant tipping off their handler about a man wanting to take out a hit on his wife. Yeah, sort of ok. But why escalate the crime?
The latter, not good. WIth the plea deal system it will never be known what sort of directed guidance the police were putting on their target. High possibility that they are entrapping fantasists.
Earth. You do have a vote on banning the KKK etc. Both at State level, house level, and Presidential level. It just needs politicians with the balls to put it on their manifesto.
Do I think Trump is a raging foaming mouthed Nazi?
Nope. I think he is just an ignorant old man, typical of his generation. He surrounds himself with yes men, has done all his life, and the spineless lackeys that surround him won't speak out.
He has been told what his base is, and he only reads the news that they read.
And you know what, I suspect Trump and his advisors have got it right. His base is a lot bigger than the MSM can accept.
People need to to walk away from him. Trump is a dumbass playing a game. His cabinet are smart people hitching a ride to glory. They need to start jumping off the Trump gravy train before it goes past the point of no return.
And I will be honest. Trump has done good things that Obama did not have them balls to do for fear of upsetting his doners.
Out of TPP for one, and banning the supply of arms to "moderates" in the Mid East is another.
The reason these people get banned is because they use coercion and force. Many are armed with the intent to incite, or actually engage in violence. They often twist the truth and some will twist history and lie. We see this among many religious groups now.
ScotsAlan:
I often read conservapedia. It's hilarious and terrrifying at the same time.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/anti-fascist-protesters-fall-neo-154710606.html
a different perspective that i missed.
