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Q: should i risk china or not
Hi Everyone I search for advice from the people in the know. I have been to china on holiday for a couple months and i love asia been to thailand done teaching english for a couple months only in a school in Thailand. I am graduate of UK university with a degree environmental health i am late twenties from ireland have a job here make $2.5k a month but boried with it with it and need a new challege in my life. if i come to china will i find a job or will it be a low paying cycle of poverty or is it worth it just stick it out in the west. i know there are plenty of expats out there with the answers i would love to hear from.
It depends on you.
Many laowai come and live in poverty as you say and your salary will suck compared to whhat you earn now. This often a choice they have made. They live in smaller cities or work insanely low hours.
Others work 5 days a week and work 8 hours a day and make quite good money.
If you want to come close to your salary, then you will need to do that and only work in Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzhen or Guangzhou. Probably a training center or perhaps an international school. Training centers are an easy job to get, you can just go to a city center walk up and pretty much get hired.
With that salary, youll be either able to save more than you do now or youll live well but still be poor every month. Depends on if you choose a luxury apartment in the city center and go to expensive restaurants and pubs every day.
Most will choose to work and enjoy the center, but live a little ways away. Find a balance between cheap food and expensive food. And youll be living wonderfully.
Have fun!
By the way, many many people swear never to go near training centers, but judging from your post, age and love of money, im pretty sure youll thrive.
You'll probably have problems in China with your 'environmental health' diploma. There is no such a thing as 'health' anywhere in China.
Look occasionally at this web link:
October1st:
No, Environmental Health is a great major, and it is much needed and welcomed in China now.
Irishguy, there are foreign invested companies here doing business in consultation, such as EHS (environmental health & safety), and you could try those positions. Those companies require the working platform of English language, so if you don't know much Chinese language that'll be also fine. I worked and still working in that company and there had been great western guys working with us.
irishguy:
Yeah there many environmental health issues that need address in china currently. how would i go about trying finding a job in this filed. what is the best method of attack do you think
icnif77:
@irish: try job search here, top R of the screen. I tested with word 'environment', but I got only School's jobs. I'm not sure, what is the name of your profession, but you might get some job adverts with right '(environment) title' word.
You could also search at !Yahoo search ( we can't 'afford' Goog search in China) with title of your profession and add 'jobs in China'. I (we) use air quality link, before I agree to move into the new city.
donnie3857:
Environmental Health may even become a "special skill" in China.
icnif77:
Indeed! Valuable and well paid! It MUST became.....Env. here is bordering on disaster!
Teaching English is a sure shot for a job, it can give you a safe income while looking for something else. Don't ever try to get a job with a agent, find if by yourself. Come on the right visa, the Z visa. Mike's advices are very sensible.
Cost of living is low, as are taxes and travel expenses. Your life will definitely change, and more expats report social isolation, though some seem to thrive in expat communities or immersing with local culture. Personally, I found locals to be very petty, ethnocentric/passive racist, and difficult to have a normal conversation with, even if the can speak English. It may be cultural differences, but it really seems like locals aren't very interesting at all.
If you're going to date pretty girls here, you may enjoy it so much that you don't even notice the intellectual void. You'll be more popular with the ladies than you ever were back home, simply due to how rare foreigners are here,and how rude and lame local men are.
Practically speaking, Chinese hospitals are a disaster. Good health care is lacking, as are bedside manner and customer service. You'll pay a high price for western food, though some of the Chinese fare is affordable and tasty. But ordering is difficult when you can't read anything.
You will be able to save a lot more of your salary than you could back home. After expenses, this might even bring your savings over your 2.5k job at home. But there are risks. You won't be paying for any pension plan. Health care might or might not be payed by the employer. Chinese bosses are accustomed to bullying people, and will try the same with you. Chinese are quite xenophobic, and have no qualms about discriminating against laowai in business.
In my experience, if you have little cash, costs and bureaucratic resistance are high. When you have a lot of cash, expats report how easy it is to transfer funds and do business.
If you ever have kids, get them out of China ASAP if you can. Education is disastrous for their formative years.
I made the move and regretted it, now i'm stuck here. but there are others who are quite happy here. I can't decide for you, but I suggest trying it out for a year (contract) and see how it suits you. And be sure not to burn your bridges!!!
Go work in big cities in China,better the international one has lots of expats.Then you can enjoy something Chinese and western.Because you might feel miss home and lonely after been here for a while.Might miss hometown food,so live in international city in China and try local and western food.Western food is usually more expensive than Chinese food,if you keep live in between you will save lots than you may can back to home.If you have teaching certificate and get degree,I know in Shanghai you could probally get paid around $2k-$2.5k.But I do not sure about the insurance,but I guess you may get insurance if u r working for an international school here.I personally do not recommend you to work in train centres,public international school is better choice,you will get more holidays off and get good salary.My ex is an America,So I know those teaching salaries here.Another American school was interested in him and told could pay him $2K.
Go work in big cities in China,better the international one has lots of expats.Then you can enjoy something Chinese and western.Because you might feel miss home and lonely after been here for a while.Might miss hometown food,so live in international city in China and try local and western food.Western food is usually more expensive than Chinese food,if you keep live in between you will save lots than you may can back to home.If you have teaching certificate and get degree,I know in Shanghai you could probally get paid around $2k-$2.5k.But I do not sure about the insurance,but I guess you may get insurance if u r working for an international school here.I personally do not recommend you to work in train centres,public international school is better choice,you will get more holidays off and get good salary.My ex is an America,So I know those teaching salaries here.Another American school was interested in him and told could pay him $2K.
i work in china because of age discrimination in developed countries, with teacher certification , saudi, japan, korea all pay better, dont come here until your have to.
Mike and Coineineagh have a good answers above, and i'll just add a few other things.
Public schools are more reliable to work for but lower paid than training schools, but even then it is possible to save money.
You can live cheaply if you want, or blow it all if you are a party animal who eats only foreign or 'western' food - i would not recommend that as it tastes terrible and is over priced.
You can feel isolated at times, so being happy in your own company and well stocked on down-loads it essential.
prepare for internet restrictions - they are getting worse, even with a VPN.
Even in more international cities you will be under scrutiny the whole time from locals.
You would have to be prepared for being BS'ed most of the time.
Make sure EVERYTHING is spelled out clearly and to your satisfaction before you sign anything - keep asking questions.
China is a great place to work in - for a limited amount of time - and a great experience.
but be sure you want to go and make sure you are well prepared
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Thanks everyone for the advice guys
i am prepared to work hard and long hours in china for a round the same money i am on here even if its a bit less than the money but am not prepared to work long hours for low pay. The cost of living in the western is getting so bad now its hard to afford a good standard of living your really need a good job of maybe $60000 plus a year for a house and kids much when i was in china everything was relatively cheap and i enjoyed my last trip to china for a holiday. Maybe i could try a short term contact to see what its like of about a year. but what about holiday is the minim 5 days that chinese workers get which is desperate
DrMonkey:
1 week of holiday is just for starter. Wait to go to the hospital, to breath the winter smog and to experience society with Chinese characteristic. It's livable, but don't forget your thickest skin.
I think the question you gotta ask yourself is whether you'd be bored in ANY job or whether it's just a bad fit with you and your current position. You can come here and it'll be an interesting experience for a while living in a foreign country, but that'll get old and so if you still hate the job you'll be miserable.
You don't have to live in poverty here if you're willing to work. You can make close to $40K a year pretty easy and that can go decently far here as long as you're not expecting to be really flashy. If you can live with a 30 min commute to downtown you can live in a perfectly good new complex for something very reasonable.
On the other hand...if you have higher aspirations than $40K or I guess maybe $50K at the absolute high end you might want to look at what you're doing now and ask whether there might be an opportunity for advancement in the future even if you don't like it now. If you don't like teaching, you'll fucking hate forever it no matter what they pay you. There's no executive level pot of gold at the end of the ESL rainbow to keep you motivated.
Some people DO manage to come here as teachers and move into something more lucrative/interesting. On this thread Dr. Monkey is a scientific advisor, MikeCA i believe is a manufacturing rep or some kind of white collar factory position and I'm a financial analyst. But don't let that fool you into thinking that's common, it's really really rare and I got extremely lucky (i'll give those other guys the benefit of the doubt they were genuinely talented). Just a coincidence that 50% of this thread is the tiny minority who pulled it off. I wouldn't recommend to anybody that in 2014 it's a great career move to head to china to teach expecting to transition into a business role.
China does suck a little bit in terms of environment. I went to ireland with my dad 5 times growing up and I have to say that ireland is possibly the greatest place on earth. I LOVE ireland. Chinese people would KILL to get to live in a place so pleasant, so for what it's worth that should tell you something about China.
Victoria1987:
I agree most part expatlife said.Moved to China to save more for a few years when it is time for u to built career in Ireland?You said u r in ur late 20 S,it is a good time to built ur career right now.Most coporates like new young blood,when u r older,the reason for a coporate to give u good position usally that ur better than those young blood to fill the management role. Why not stick there and get urself promoted to 7K or more?With good money,you can travel more to get bored. My another advice is do not move to China.Work hard in Ireland.I hope u will be in a management position five years latter.
expatlife26:
Yeah i agree with victoria, late 20s might be a bit too late to go for an adventure and still be able to eventually make it as a middle class westerner. That may not be important to you, but its something to think about.
You do need to think about whether your current job might have some future potential. ESL doesnt. If you have the right information you can make close to max level ESL money deal fresh off the boat. Which is a respectable income. In fact you can make MORE than you do now. But it wont grow as your responsibility grows they dont really give a toss about experience. As you get older your expenses go up, so youll effectively make less every year. The richest you will Ever feel is the day you arrive, before you have kids wife or other expenses.
just gotta really look at your situation to make the right call
If you have a degree in environmental health then China definitely needs you.
Yeah i would love to have the chance to apply my knowledge and skills in china in my field. It may not be long term thing or may not work or even possibly without knowing the right people but it would definitely be be very good for C.V. In terms of working in the west in my position if i wanted progress it would probably take a long time and would not be graduated in the company. I feel even at on a short term level i could try china and give it go if it were not to work i could always walk away having had the experience and gaining in life from in it.
You probably won't be able to show up and work in your field - the people I know doing this were either transferred here or had a long history of Chinese academic study which make them valuable enough to bring. So assuming you don't want to teach (funny how everyone just assumed you were wanting to do that), can you see if there are ways you can "lateral" over to China from somewhere based in UK?
As in an internship, or something like this? Seems like 10 years ago you could probably easily do this, but now there are boatloads of locals coming back (however unwillingly) from overseas study who can do the same but already know how to navigate the country, its language and culture etc.
My advice: don't listen to the naysayers, but play it smart and make sure you're building bridges rather than burning them.
expatlife26:
Yeah definitely don't show up expecting to get a job in your field...
Takes a lot to justify hiring an expat over a local to the visa bureau. If that's what youre looking to do you'll have to try a less developed country.
There are like 10 (supposedly) qualified chinese grads for every halfway decent job in this country. There is a real need for expats because we bring a different skill set, but there's just not a ton of demand on the ground, especially at the entry-junior level.
Hi everyone thanks for the advice so far
how would i go about getting a work visa in china would apply for one outside of the china or turn up on a tourist visa and get one. I am not too sure how i would go about if i were to come to China.
I do know that there is so many graduates in china that are unemployed or underemployed that it would be tough completing with them for similar type jobs.
Hi everyone thanks for the advice so far
how would i go about getting a work visa in china would apply for one outside of the china or turn up on a tourist visa and get one. I am not too sure how i would go about if i were to come to China.
I do know that there is so many graduates in china that are unemployed or underemployed that it would be tough completing with them for similar type jobs.
if you have decided to work in China, your best bet is as an English teacher.
don't go as a tourist and hope you will find a job there - you will have to leave the country to get the correct visa
There are many websites with jobs advertised:
for example:
be sure not to accept a job that does not offer a 'Z' visa
Don't believe anyone who tells you different.
do your research carefully - there are many questions in this section you can look up
only accept an offer that sends you the official documents so you can apply for the visa in Ireland.
Ask ALL questions about work hours, accommodation etc
ask for clarification on any fuzzy replies.
PM me if you need more information.
Apart from all that's been said, you need to know your level of tolerance for a lot of nasty habits locals have here. This is all over China, doesn't matter which city. You get people spitting, smoking in restaurants, peeing on pavements, shitting on the sidewalk, old aunties doing line dancing in almost any given open area with loudspeakers, the list goes on and on. If you've never been to this part of the world before then be prepared for the culture shock of your life. Now, before you go say I'm scaring you, ask those who've are here. If you are in a big city, you'll have to deal with jam packed metros - makes the London tube seem a luxury to travel on. The rush of humanity here is something not known in many cities I've been to.
However, if you do go to a smaller city, life is much slower. Cleaner air, nicer people, even cars give way to you sometimes. In bigger cities, all cars want to kill you.
Anyway, give it a shot. What have you got to lose anyway? If nothing, you still can get something for the experience and go back with something to show for it.
Listen to Sorrel, she's right about what you need to look out for.
Spiderboenz:
What to lose? Your health. Your faith in humanity. Your life.
Meh, go for it.
You should be able to last at least 6 months and then you can decide what you are going to do further from there.























