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Q: Should there be more rigerous tests for Expat teachers in China?

This article has just appeared on the BBC news site and refers to teachers in  England. 

 

"Entry tests for people wanting to become teachers will be more rigorous to raise the quality and standing of the profession, the government says".

Given the recent reports of abuse here in China do you think that more rigorous testing here would help improve standards?

11 years 22 weeks ago in  Teaching & Learning - China

 
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Comments (14)
Posts: 6321

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I do think that there has to be some kind of testing/auditing system for people who want to teach here, no doubt about it.  However, I am not sure what would be the best way, as we are all much more than just a CV. But I do agree that at present, there are way too many people who are teaching who should not be (both with and without diplomas). 

lokethebloke:

Thanks Mr G.

 

11 years 22 weeks ago
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GuilinRaf:

My pleasure!

11 years 22 weeks ago
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11 years 22 weeks ago
 
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There is a perfectly good set of examined standards already in place, in the UK it is called PGCE or Post Graduate Certificate of Education a two or three year program designed to teach you how to teach.

If the Chinese authorities concentrated on requiring that rather than accepting a degree in Art Appreciation things could improve overnight. However as with many things passing laws does nothing if those laws / requirements aren't enforced.

 

P.S. In your headline / title you miss spelled rigorous. (You spelled it rigerous)

lokethebloke:

Thank you teacher. I'm still learning!!

11 years 22 weeks ago
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11 years 22 weeks ago
 
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  There absolutely, definitely should be more solid guidelines for teachers of the young. In my experience anyone can walk into a position of responsibility over young children without any awareness about what is and what is not acceptable behaviour. One teacher I knew would allow ten year old girls to sit on his lap and even allowed one to put her legs around his waist. I argued about this one night with a guy who had been teaching for years and he supported such shows of affection, arguing that Chinese parents don't show enough affection themselves and so the children were deprived of love. I wanted to vomit listening to this idiot and had to restrain myself from beating the living crap out of him.

  A teacher's chief role, in my opinion, when it comes to teaching young children, is to enforce necessary boundaries of what is and what is not acceptable or appropriate contact between themselves and people outside their own family unit. Teachers who do not respect those boundaries (which in my mind do not extend beyond an encouraging pat on the back) are teaching their students by example that it is just fine to allow those outside their family to touch them in familiar ways, a very VERY dangerous lesson indeed.

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11 years 22 weeks ago
 
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Governor

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One good question and one first sensible rely. I had thought about this 4 years past and having  carried out some research in Zhangjiagang and surrounding area's with regards to setting up a teacher/tutor assessment center, it did turn out that the local authorities would welcome such a move and would encourage such a center. And approached me in this matter. Unfortunately I become very ill and returned home for hospital treatment before it could proceed further. Personally I  tend to think  that to a teachers proficiency assessment center would benefit schools and students here. [At a price of course] As some schools and Universities require and set high standards  yet they do not want to pay the price. Because someone goes the the internet and completes a  weekend 40 hour or 120 hour test assessment does not make them a good or qualified teacher/tutor. On occasions I have been challenged by students with regards to the various accents, pronunciation, teaching methods, attitudes, ability , and proficiency of the previous teachers speak ie: German/Italian/ French/African/ American/Hindu English etc. I always make it clear to a school/University that I do not do world accents in English. And that many teachers, if not all will display their own methods, whether it is right or wrong.  [I'm not being disrespectful] towards other tutors. But I do tend to agree that some should not be teaching English. Saying that, this also applies  greatly to many Chinese English teaching teachers, who, many tend to think that their English ability or standards are either excellent or very high, when I would tend to think they should never be teaching or tutoring English at all. Also many schools like foreigners to teach English, however it must be the Chinese way .

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11 years 22 weeks ago
 
Posts: 458

Shifu

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I agree that better safeguards should be in place, especially when teaching children. To teach children in the UK (or work with them in any capacity) one must undertake a comprehensive police check and become registered with the relevant authorities; this certificate is also updated every year. There must be two adults in the room at any one time in most private enterprises, with many companies teaching the mantra 'watch my hands' when actually touching children for things like help with jacket zips etc.

 

A genuine fear of mine in teaching would be accusations of improper behaviour becoming a case of my word against a child's. In fact, I've seen this with a child accusing a fellow foreign teacher of hitting them. It was an absolute lie, the child simply wanted to avoid taking English lessons. However, had the parents involved not been able to see through the lies of their child things could have got really nasty.

 

Personally, I'm not the kind of person who goes in for physical contact with children (minus a high five) as the diseased brats tend to make me sick and, less jokingly, I think it's inappropriate for a teacher to give anything but emotional and moral support. The example of letting a ten year old child wrap his/her legs around my waist is a repulsive one in a professional context. That person should evaluate their actions.

crimochina:

i've had to dodge kisses. and when a student hugs me, i just want to immediately push them off. simply because i do not want any false accusations and it just feels weird.

11 years 22 weeks ago
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11 years 22 weeks ago
 
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now, chinese teachers abusing students is very common (according to the comments to the article about the 5 year old girl and others being smacked around for not knowing math. (see chinasmack)

how exactly does that lead to a question about testing expat teachers? (and referring back to recent cases of abuse) clever clever

of course there should be testing and background checks for any teacher , but how can we trust a govt that can't even do this with it's own chinese teachers to do this with expats from many different countries? are you talking about testing the english competence of teachers? yes the chinese testing native english speakers, to make sure their english sound like chinese english speakers. (that is retarded) 

should there be psychological testing? yes! i'm sorry if you are bi-polar, or have any other kind of mental deficiency, i do not believe you should be allowed to enter china. for your own well being, and those around you. 

the reality, this is not feasible in china. china does not have the know how, will or competency to administer any such testing. (they can't even do it for their own people, i've had 2 students who quit school to start working as teacher in small cities) 

lokethebloke:

Although I can't understand the meaning and context of some of what you're trying to say, I agree with you entirely about standards of actual english that is being taught.  (as you well know, my standard would be english english, but as with everything perfection is impossible to achieve).    Also agree about the psychological and criminal checks. 

 

Obviously these standards and checks should apply across the board and getting the chinese authorities to accept and implement them is going to be a mammoth task.   For the sake of the students surely we have to try.  

 

Is it not a part of being a good teacher?

11 years 22 weeks ago
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Hugh.G.Rection:

We're teachers not Saints and not political activists, it is for China and the Chinese to decide what rules and regulations they want in THEIR country to care for THEIR children (and in my case young adults).

Their problem (well one of them anyway) is that the demand for English teachers hugely outweighs the availability. Such situations are ripe for abuse. Loke, if you care so much for the quality of English teaching in China why don't you organise a protest march........... I'll even be a character witness at your trial.

11 years 22 weeks ago
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crimochina:

let me make this absolutely clear. chinese teachers are abusing students. that seems to be the norm in china by chinese teachers. how is that related to expat teachers? you post a question asking if expat teachers should under go more rigorous testing. and you state due to the recent cases of abuse. someone who is not familiar with these stories would be led to believe that these cases of abuse involved foreign teachers. you do not mention any details of the story. you do not mention where to go look at these stories. almost as if you were trying to mislead people into thinking that there are expats running around abusing chinese students. 

11 years 22 weeks ago
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crimochina:

is there any story about expat teachers abusing students in china??????? why are some people trying to paint use with the taint of chinese teachers?

 

i come from a civilized society. 

beating students is not the norm. teachers who do things like this never teach again. 

students are not taught that teachers are infallible . so if a teacher puts their hands on a child they would have to deal with the parents.

11 years 22 weeks ago
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crimochina:

so the ccp party line on the chinese teachers abusing students is "how can we prevent expat teachers from abusing students?"

 

poor pathetic ccp

11 years 22 weeks ago
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诸葛亮:

Dead on again.

 

There's another expat student at my school who can't hear very well, and the teachers seeth with rage each time they're required to interact with him. I've seen one of them stomping and screaming at him like a baby throwing a tantrum. All he wanted to do was learn to write characters.

 

Then he stopped going to class, and the teachers wonder where he disappeared to, and WHY.

11 years 22 weeks ago
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mArtiAn:

  Where the hell do the ccp come into it? Don't you know you're embarrassing yourself with this nonsense. Hugh has proven (at least to PhilBravery, who checked him out) that he is not the ccp member you've been accusing him of being for four months. I've proven by my repeated posting of my face every time you make your silly accusations, that I am just another expat. So what? Now you're left with just Loke? But you're still adamant that you're right, right? Do you NEVER learn? Are you TRULY that bloody-minded and stubborn that you cannot simply admit, at least to yourself, that you are wrong? You are being laughed at with this shit.

  And for the record, since I first worked here, ten years ago, for a period of 7 months, followed by 2 and a half years back home, then the following 7 years here teaching full time, I have never come across the abuse that you insultingly suggest is 'the norm.' I would not, nor ever shall allow abuse towards children were I to be made aware of it, and I have known countless teachers, both Chinese and foreign, and I am truly sorry to say, as I know that it will not be a satisfactory answer to you, that the only cases of 'abuse' towards children from those teachers i've known, has been from my fellow expats. That is probably because they have mostly been people who were not professional teachers and were overcome by the stresses of teaching until they behaved unprofessionally. NOT because 'they are the bad guys,' i'm not so stupid as to try to label such large groups of people in such a limited manner, though the very fact that you continually insist on doing so with the Chinese only convinces me that you have been deeply disturbed to the point of genuine racism, probably because you have grown up in a society that has treated blacks as second class citizens for so very very long, only to come to another country that does the same. But you refuse to 'play the race card', even though i'm convinced that that is the root of your gripe. And why? Because you would not get the support of your online peers, and THAT makes you a sell-out. They would think you a whiner, probably because to think otherwise would drag up the feelings of white guilt that so many westerners try to ignore in just such a deflective manner. In fact you would probably have as little as three people truly supporting your corner. Do you want a guess at who they'd be?

11 years 22 weeks ago
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Hugh.G.Rection:

Awesome answer mArtiAn, way too good to get a response from CoC though.

11 years 22 weeks ago
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11 years 22 weeks ago
 
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What is "rigerous"? (I refer to the title of the post). Maybe a British spelling.

lokethebloke:

No, not a British spelling, just my mistake.

11 years 22 weeks ago
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11 years 22 weeks ago
 
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Good question, but one you can simply answer by looking at economical factors. At this point schools are settling for what they can get. In big cities at proper institutions this may mean at least native speakers are recruited, some with some kind of degree (not even necessarily in education-related majors). But of course there are more parents with kids who want to give their offspring a chance at something better. That's where you got your standard crap coming in. Non-natives, very little insight or interest in children and/or teaching. But will more rigorous tests change that? No, because where do you recruit those people who are both native and qualified? It's just too costly and people will still want their kids to learn English. If there were tests and it could be enforced (which I doubt) the kid's best shot then would be a Chinese teacher, and let's face it; most people would rather learn Chinese from an unqualified Chinese teacher than from a qualified westerner. Whether that's always warranted remains to be seen but it's logical in terms of "nativeness".
Edit: By standard crap I don't mean those teachers are bad people. In fact many do care about the students, but then again, everyone cares about a cancer cure. Doesn't mean we're all qualified to create drugs and test them on people.

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11 years 22 weeks ago
 
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It's all bullshit if you think about it. No matter what standards are put into place, the Chinese will continue to create fake diplomas, awards, and credentials for the foreigner dumb enough to accept the lowest pay possible.  If you can speak English, they will hire you and call you "Teacher".

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11 years 21 weeks ago
 
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It's all bullshit if you think about it. No matter what standards are put into place, the Chinese will continue to create fake diplomas, awards, and credentials for the foreigner dumb enough to accept the lowest pay possible.  If you can speak English, they will hire you and call you "Teacher".

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11 years 21 weeks ago
 
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BTW  Loke... if you are an English teacher, look up "rigerous" in the dictionary of your choice.  Relax, just playing with you - you  make a good point with this thread.

lokethebloke:

No, I'm not a teacher, but some would and do say a manipulator.  

Can't spell to save my life and don't get my knickers in a twist if I make the odd mistake.

Just seem to meet a lot of folk who seem to have been sold short by some of the expat teaching fraternity  -  very sad and not fair.

11 years 21 weeks ago
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11 years 21 weeks ago
 
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