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Posts: 2531

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Q: So is China going to backup Russia in invading Ukraine?

As you may know or not know... 

 

Russia is planning on invading Ukraine because the people of Ukraine want to join the EU and form a more democratic country. Russia has had a stronghold on the Ukraine and doesn't want that to happen. The US is motioning to get Russia kicked out of the G8 and the G7 is canceled and will no longer be held in Sochi. 

 

Russia is still a communist country at heart and has strong ties with China. Will China backup their communist buddiy in this OR

 

Will China stay out of it because if they enter into a war, America will most likely default on their debt and this will cause China to look bad and possibly lose a lot of import/export trade... 

 

How does this effect you? 

 

If China does actively help their buddy, then this could make life here in China a lot worse for foreigners of countries that will work against Russia and China. So any opinions on this? Better to be safe than sorry. 

 

 

 

Well, 

 

10 years 12 weeks ago in  Relationships - China

 
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Shifu

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I bet these issues are just fuckingly annoying noise to China. They probably don't even get why people would fight over issues like society, religion, identity. I mean, why would citizens of whatever country fight for anything else than wealth in life? So inferior to harmonious China!

So they get the memos from Russia (not that they're friends, but at least not enemies, that must count somehow), water them down, publish them as lazy statements, sit tight and wait for next government to maybe prove sensitive to corruption (just in case).

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Shifu

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This does not affect me in any way, and same China. They will not interfere even verbally, nothing ofical will come out of china press about this case.

And Russia will not risk too much. it is just face show off.

 

They risk many customers can stop buying their gas and oil. EU can cover the demand from Scandinavian and M.East suppliers for some time, which will be enough to create serious damage to the Russian exports. and it may continue in many other ways.

 

This scenario simply will not happen. It is just game, if the new UA govt and its people is mentally strong enough to suffer few weeks with old machinery in their country ...

 

 

Nessquick:

So, from todays news, the Russian rubl went straight down, everyone sell out any russian bonds, price of crude oil is rising ...

10 years 12 weeks ago
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10 years 12 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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It would be silly of China to get involved in the Ukraine issue. Why would they? This is something happening on the other side of the planet and doesn't affect China in anyway. Getting involved would mean dealing with the UN and a host of new issues. China already have enough to deal with in their own backyard. There is nothing to gain and much to lose by getting involved. Let the Europe handle their own problems. At most, China will advocate dialog to resolve the issues. 

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10 years 12 weeks ago
 
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Some Chinese official has officially stated that diplomacy and chit chat, is a better response than military action........I tend to agree....even though I know politicians are incapable of agreeing on anything..... power to the people... that have no idea what they are doing, just like politicians..... and it goes on and on and on and on and on..

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10 years 12 weeks ago
 
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Hum, I think you do some fairly inaccurate observations here
  - Russia is *NOT* communist at all, not in name or in facts. You have a president, an assembly. In practice, it seems it's Putin and his friends/clients who got the country under a tight grip.
  - China is *NOT* communist in the facts, it's capitalism in its wildest form. Centralized state, yes, but it's not a feature unique to communism.
  - China and Russia having strong ties, I would be nuanced. They used to be enemies a while a go, especially at the time they were both actually communists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_Split). Things are much better now, granted. They even have some joint military partnership, but so far, it's minimal with no string attached.
 

China have like, zero interests in Ukraine. Chinese businesses and investments are very small. China never been so keen in direct military intervention : the only direct intervention is anti-piracy operations along the coast of Somalia. I guess Ukrainian citizens are a "bad example" for Chinese citizens, yet Ukrainian revolts are shown on public TVs. The most annoyed in this story are Russia (Ukraine was so far some kind of buffer and customer for their gas) and Europe (they buy Russian gas, which goes across Ukraine). China won't move one finger, they will just wear the 3d glasses and eat pop-corn.

DrMonkey:

The official declaration from China's Foreign Affairs Ministry
http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_chn/fyrbt_602243/t1133396.shtml

10 years 12 weeks ago
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Robk:

Yeah in terms of government and politics... I find Russia and China to be very... smudged. 

 

I didn't think they would intervene either... it would be horribly stupid but... I have seen things here in China (people and government) that totally blew away my previous sentiments of what "rock bottom stupid" was...

 

Plus they have enough internal problems as it is... 

10 years 12 weeks ago
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TMaster:

Agreed completely. Direct borders excluded, China will never move an inch for any country in the world or take side for anyone within a conflict, and official declarations will go in the sense 1) of their historical allegiances (mainly Russia) 2) of their economic interests 3) of the stabilization of the situation. Unstability is unwelcomed, hurts business.

10 years 12 weeks ago
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icnif77:

How did you see China/US, when they let 'Up-yours' go? Go where?

If US&China would be such a buddies, why they didn't let him exit somewhere, where US could pick him up? 

'Up-yours' took 'boatload', so they let him go to MamaP., where they can read 'stuff' in the shade together. But, US cannot 'blame' China for that. A bit maybe, but most of the US grievances are toward MamaP.

US goes, and do 'manure' in Ukraine (as re to Mama), and here we are! 'West is supporting Neo-nazi scum!' LOL. West: 'you pissed me really, really bad, so…..' Mama is repeating the same thing in Ukraine as Serbs did in the last Balkan wars in 1991. Russians&Serbs share the same religion. How do I do?

10 years 12 weeks ago
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10 years 12 weeks ago
 
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China will act similar as when 'Up-yours' landed in HK, and asked for asylum. 

 

US blocked almost all countries, except 'Putinland'. China let him go to Russia. Buddies.

 

China won't move militarily, but at UN China stands on Russian side.

 

Crisis in Ukraine is very similar to the last Balkan crisis in 1991. Comunists try to mix different nations in Yu, and after Coms. dissolved, Serbs wanted to protect Serbians living in other, newly independent parts of ex-Yugoslavia. Serbs claimed, 'anywhere Serbians live, it's Serbian territory'.

 

Russians have strong population (and military base) in Crimea, but Crimea is part of Ukraine. For many Ukrainians Russian is Native language.

 

West position on Ukraine is rather funny: ''they support neo-nazis', who want independent Ukraine''.

 

By Prof Michel Chossudovsky 'The U.S. has Installed a Neo-Nazi Government in Ukraine'

 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-u-s-has-installed-a-neo-nazi-government...

 

Real cause for Ukraine crisis is US reply to Russia for 'Up-yours asylum', IMO.

rasklnik:

Your English has issues.

10 years 12 weeks ago
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icnif77:

I know, butT…..I can copy&paste from Reuters: 'In Putin's eyes, the United States may struggle to claim any moral high ground. Some Russian and European commentators point out that the United States intervened in Kosovo in 1999 and invaded Iraq in 2003 without United Nations approval. And Russian officials have repeatedly said they regret supporting the UN-backed 2011 NATO intervention in Libya'.

How's this English? Any issues here?

10 years 12 weeks ago
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Shifu

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I bet these issues are just fuckingly annoying noise to China. They probably don't even get why people would fight over issues like society, religion, identity. I mean, why would citizens of whatever country fight for anything else than wealth in life? So inferior to harmonious China!

So they get the memos from Russia (not that they're friends, but at least not enemies, that must count somehow), water them down, publish them as lazy statements, sit tight and wait for next government to maybe prove sensitive to corruption (just in case).

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At first this appears to be as tricky as Taiwan, but let's be real. Once Russian troops are in Ukraine, only an all out war will get them removed.  Americans are in no mood for yet another costly war overseas.  If anything, the Ukraine should invite a coalition of German, French, and British troops under the UN Peacekeeping flag to come in and park until the people of the Ukraine can vote. Putin is a very intelligent and shrewd guy who has proven to be a good political chess player (strategically and tactically).  Remove Putin and the problem resolves itself since the Russian people consider the Ukraine to be an economic burden they do not want to shoulder. If China was smart they should agree to stay out of the matter if America stops plans to build a naval base in Australia or remains silent over the Diaoyu Islands. This precarious situation gives China a lot of political leverage and zero liabilities.

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It is unlikely that NATO can sit idly by while Russia pisses in their back yard. Ukraine is on the list of candidates for NATO membership. 

 

My guess would be that China would remain "neutral" (slight lean towards Russia) and the official narrative is they hope a peaceful solution can be found. 

royceH:

Yes, I agree with you.

China is at present having much more fun upping the ante in the argy-bargy with their number one trump card in the mission to keep their own people down, Japan.

 

10 years 12 weeks ago
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russia made a mistake in 1992 by giving land to ukraine where many russians lived in hopes of keeping the country pro russian and now like an indian giver, they are taking back the land occupied by russians like they took back areas of georgia that were russian on the eve of the beijing olympics, nothing new here, the question is will they take all of ukrain and the western portion that is pro eu.

if they take the western portion then the eu looks like a fool with no power and diminishes the eu and raises the influence of america by default. the russians have 840000 trained alcoholic troops within 400 km of ukraine and ukraine has an army of 130,000.

if russia takes the west portion and the west will apply sanctions and russian investors will invest more in china, a plus for china, china sells to the eu, so they will continue to be the ostrich with their head in the sand that never takes a moral or political position on anything unless it is to their benefit against the west, without losing money.

if putin takes all of ukraine, he want be able to keep it and the pro eu citizens will cause lots of headaches for him.

the biggest reason russia invaded is they simply dont want a border country to have nato troops staring at russian troops across a fence. they want buffer countries between russian and europe. china does not want a democracy right on its border and neither does russia, its against their national interests.

every country looks out for their national interests and the invasion was no surprise to me at all, but sadly, most leaders cant think in the other man's shoes.

 

icnif77:

Few days passed after your post, and I hope you realise there was no mistake in 1992! Russians & Serbs share the same Eastern Orthodox Religion. Have a look what Serbs did in Balkan wars 1991 - 2001. Very similar is happening now in Ukraine.

10 years 12 weeks ago
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ambivalentmace:

russia knew the small country of ukraine hated russia and wanted to be part of europe, so in 1992, they gave them russian land with russian people living there to balance the anti russia power toward europe, not they are taking those people and that land back, it did not change the feelings of western ukraine, so my point was they should have never given the land to ukraine to begin with, the plan did not work, the west ukrainians still hate russia and the east is still pro russian, a moderate middle of the road government than does not kiss the ass of the west or the east, for example finland, did not happen.

 

on top of that, clinton promised security to ukraine for getting rid of their nuclear weapons and obama promised security for downsizing their army and destroying stockpiles of ammunition from the cold war, obviously no one should trust america to keep their word on anything.

10 years 12 weeks ago
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All of us that have been in the last four administrations have drunk the Kool-Aid," James Jeffrey, a retired career U.S. diplomat said, referring to the belief that they could talk Putin into seeing the western system as beneficial. "'If they would just understand that it can be a win-win, if we can only convince them' - Putin doesn't see it," Jeffrey said. "The Chinese don't see it. And I think the Iranians don't see it." LOLOLOL

 

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/03/us-ukraine-crisis-intervention...

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Crimea votes to join Russia, accelerating Ukraine crisis

 

Putin has said Russia reserves the right to intervene militarily in other areas of Ukraine if Russian interests or the lives of Russians are in danger.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/06/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSBREA1Q1E...

 

Post 3 days ago (beating on one's chest):

 

Crisis in Ukraine is very similar to the last Balkan crisis in 1991. Comunists tried to mix different nations in Yu, and after Coms. dissolved, Serbs wanted to protect Serbians living in other, newly independent parts of ex-Yugoslavia. Serbs claimed, 'anywhere Serbians live, it's a Serbian territory'. 'Add-it'= End of the war in 2001. Over 100 000 casualties in the middle of EU! Mass graves are still being uncovered.

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http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405270230336990457942117147...

 

Daniel Henninger: Putin Carterizes Obama, Totally

 

International observers?

This calls to mind Humphrey Bogart's Fred C. Dobbs facing the gang of Mexican bandidos in "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre":

Dobbs: "If you're the police, where are your badges?"

Chief bandido: "Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges!"

We may assume Mr. Putin would say the masked Russians patrolling Ukrainian Crimea are "international observers."

 

 

This WSJ blog is very, very funny!

icnif77:

What does it mean 'Carterizes'?

 

Here's what else happened in the week when Mr. Putin captured Crimea:

- Israel on Wednesday intercepted in the Red Sea an Iranian shipment to Gaza of dozens of Syrian-made surface-to-surface rockets. These are our new Iranian negotiating partners.

- North Korea last Thursday test-fired four short-range ballistic missiles and another this Monday. Then on Tuesday it deployed a new multiple-rocket launcher that fired four missiles with enough range to hit American and South Korean military bases near Seoul.

- In Moscow last Wednesday,Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said Russia plans to use military bases in Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua for its navy and to refuel strategic bombers. Three months ago, Secretary Kerry ostentatiously announced in a Washington speech, "The era of the Monroe Doctrine is over." Naturally the Russians took this as a green light to return to one of the Soviet Union's favorite playpens. The next day, a Russian spy ship, the Viktor Leonov SSV-175, slipped unannounced into Havana Harbor.

- Then this Wednesday, a news bulletin: "China announces 12.2% increase in military budget." That boost comes within 24 hours of the Obama budget proposing a decline in U.S. defense spending.

This is all in one week!

'Soviet Union's favourite playpens…LOLOL

10 years 12 weeks ago
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icnif77:

 Wikipee: "The Monroe Doctrine was a policy of the United States introduced on December 2, 1823. It stated that further efforts by European nations to colonise land or interfere with states in North and South America would be viewed as acts of aggression, requiring U.S. intervention" Kerry: 'Era of Monroe doctrine…….is over!' LOL

10 years 12 weeks ago
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"Putin has said Russia reserves the right to intervene militarily in other areas of Ukraine if Russian interests or the lives of Russians are in danger" 

 

Notice to China.

icnif77:

See above excerpt from WSJ (last paragraph) about 'notice to China'. HK let 'Up-yours' go to P-land! That should tell you everything about Chinese position!

Only notice I see is 'US-shut-t-fork up, or else'….Russia, China, Iran, N.Horea

10 years 12 weeks ago
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China says no room for compromise with Japan on history, territory

 

China's Foreign Minister Wang Yi gestures as he speaks during a news conference as part of the National People's Congress (NPC) in Beijing March 8, 2014.

 

(Reuters) - Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi said on Saturday that there was no room for compromise with Japan on questions of history and territory.

China's ties with Japan have long been poisoned by what China sees as Japan's failure to atone for its occupation of parts of China before and during World War Two.

China's anger over the past is never far from the surface, and relations have deteriorated sharply over the past 18 months because of a dispute over a chain of uninhabited islands in the East China Sea.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/08/us-china-parliament-japan-idUSBREA2703W20140308    
  

 

 

 

icnif77:

Isn't that statement called 'backing'?

10 years 11 weeks ago
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http://www.debka.com/article/23740/Moscow-secures-Crimea-poll-with-air-d...

 

Moscow secures Crimea poll with air-defense missile drill. US steps up military activity around Russia

icnif77:

 

A US naval destroyer enters the Black Sea 
DEBKAfile March 7, 2014, 6:02 PM (IST)

The USS Truxtun guided-missile destroyer Friday crossed the Bosporus into the Black Sea to join the fleets of NATO alllies Rumania and Bulgaria in a naval exercise, the day after the Pentagon unveiled plans to put more US fighters on an air patrol mission over the Baltics. Additional US military exercises are planned for areas around the Russia starting Sunday. Twelve US F-16 fighter bombers and 300 military personnel are to be transferred to Poland over the weekend.

 

10 years 11 weeks ago
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icnif77:

Blame it on Verisonmail:

 

Another Obama-Putin call ends in discord 

DEBKAfile March 7, 2014, 8:55 AM (IST)

After signing fresh sanctions, President Barack Obama urged President Vladimir Putin to pursue a negotiated end to the Ukraine crisis in an hour-long conversation by phone early Friday. It was their second in a week. Putin retorted angrily that the Kiev regime and its actions are illegal. Their conversation he said revealed differences on the Ukraine issue, but.relations with Washington are important on international issues. 

 

10 years 11 weeks ago
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China is simply staying idle, watch and smile, without saying anything vague about the current crisis. China already said that they don't like meddle between the issues of two countries and ready to work along with both Ukraine and Russia. They should solve the issue with table talk. Though Ukraine is not the biggest trading partner, its business is improving. It got some military hardware from Ukraine (recent one was warship). It has significant business with Russia too. China is tight lipped because, supporting Russia is also supporting people's will or referendum for separation. Saying so, think what could happen if people closer by demand same thing here. On the other hand supporting Ukraine is to support people's movement to topple governments with mass protest. Again remember if that to allow closer at home or not?

So, I don't think there will be any preference for China taking sides.

 

 

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We are not about to back anybody up.  Russia is a partner, not an ally.  Many people don't realize that China actually has more common interest with the United States than Russia, but the ideological difference, namely China's totalitarianism, is causing the contention point.  Think about it, the annual China - US bilateral trade is in the trillion dollar club, and it creates billionaires on both sides (regardless of what these anti-globalization liberal freaks say).  With Russia, China just buys energy and there is nothing else. 

10 years 11 weeks ago
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'Did I tell you, or what did I tell you?'.....oh chest, my chest hitting with the fistangel

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/13/us-ukraine-crisis-china-idUSBR...

 

 

China warns of dangerous Russia sanctions 'spiral' China's top envoy to Germany has warned the West against punishing Russia with sanctions for its intervention in Ukraine, saying such measures could lead to a dangerous chain reaction that would be difficult to control.

In an interview with Reuters days before the European Union is threatening to impose its first sanctions on Russia since the Cold War, ambassador Shi Mingde issued the strongest warning against such measures by any top Chinese official to date.

Chinese President Xi Jinping, who will visit Berlin and other European capitals later this month, held separate phone calls on the Ukraine crisis with Merkel and U.S. President Barack Obama earlier this week.

Still, Ukraine presents Beijing with a dilemma. On the one hand it is a traditional ally of Moscow and has routinely sided with its northern neighbor in major international conflicts. On the other hand, the question of territorial integrity is a tricky issue for the Chinese because of Tibet and Taiwan.

''OP is convinced, O. should change his strategy toward P.----> 'Sprint PCS is much more reliable phone provider than Verison'' LO...O2

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10 years 11 weeks ago
 
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I just don't think the slowing market in China needs this issue right now, nor does any country. I hope China slows Putin down.

icnif77:

Chinese won't hold P. down! Only thing they'll hold, are their hands. "If West sanctions are imposed, Russian will use 'China buddy' as 'mouthpiece' with West'' is my bet! Stock market in China behave much differently that in US. In China, it's 'controlled' and in US is 'manipulated'. What do you prefer?

10 years 11 weeks ago
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icnif77:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/14/us-fdic-libor-idUSBREA2D1KR20140314

 

U.S. regulator sues 16 banks for rigging Libor rate

10 years 11 weeks ago
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ironman510:

Good point

10 years 10 weeks ago
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