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anonymous
Q: So when will we have to leave?
I've been reading all of your post's and theories from Tmaster, Ironman, Ironmonkey, Expatchina and more about China upping visa requirements and making it nearly impossible to work and stay here..
I am from the U.S, married in China with twin Chinese American daughters..
Should we plan to return to our home country? Realistically?
How many more years until they require certified teachers? Which I'm far from, I can say I'm a great fun teacher..But I know it's not enough..
Should we be ready? Say in 5 years?
If you do or don't agree with members on here please tell us your ideas..
10 years 10 weeks ago in Family & Kids - China
If you are not educated to what you do, maybe rather than planning your escape, educate yourself to be able to do the job you are doing og seek another career.
ironman510:
As a family guy myself, i understand him..Scan, be realistic, we just can't stop supporting our families and magically go back to Uni and score these educational requirements over night, this takes time and maybe some people don't have enough time to be a family supported and a student at the same time..
Scandinavian:
evening classes, online studies etc. you are exactly right, cannot just abandon supporting the family, which is what people who let their career die does.
Realistically? Not in a long while. In numerous reports, surveys and guesstimates, the number of people learning English hovers around 300 million. Ok, so maybe this is a little too many, so let's say we discount this by 50%, you'd still have 150 million. Let's say the average class is around 30 students, including all forms of schools private and public and each teacher takes 3 classes, you will still need 1.7 million English teachers. And that's being conservative. There is a lot of talk about returning Chinese who can take up this vacuum but being Chinese citizens, do you think they will after enjoying the lifestyle overseas? Then insatiable demand for English is market driven and supply of teachers simply can't keep up. However, there have been numerous reports (real or trumped up or otherwise) about rogue teachers which prompted the local authorities to review the recruitment process and entry requirements. So, the move to regulate the industry is good, but only if enforced appropriately. Chances are that laws will be interpreted and applied in various forms in each province, city and township. In the end, nobody really knows what applies. At the moment, visas approvals are tightened due to several foreigners overstaying, working without a visa or on a wrong visa, etc. When there is a change in leadership in the government, the incoming honcho needs to make an impact and be visible to show that he means business. So corruption, vice, etc becomes the hot topic. He needs to show the public that he is working for them. I guess this is something like the first 100 days in USA for any new President. In my opinion, this will eventually blow over and everything will be back to normal. China has more pressing issues than to eyeball foreign teachers' activities to ensure they toe the line.
No one can say for sure. There's the whole rumor that the party wants to tighten up requirements to hire foreign teachers like you mentioned. I actually don't think that's a bad idea for anyone involved. If you really want to stay then just find a program to get certified like Scandinavian said. However, I also find it hard to believe they'd find enough certified foreign teachers as due to all the pollution nobody wants to come/stay here.
Whatever you do I would plan a backup plan that involved getting out of China all together. If you don't have then find some skills that would transfer out of China so you could make a decent living back home. Not withstanding this English teaching theory, there are China watchers and political scientists who think the next several years could be real chaos in China to say the least.
check abcte.org for a backup plan, i took the courses and and passed the test so now i could work in several states in america as a certified teacher and as soon as the present leadership is gone in 3 years and the country swings right again, many teachers will be retiring and creating a demand, right now, nobody is retiring early and afraid of the future, so unless you teach subjects that are hard to teach, ie special ed, math, not much opportunity right now but this will change.
some friends have had good luck with this, some not so good and thought it was a scam, others just took the praxis direct, one of our teachers last year took the praxis and now works in hawaii, pays is not so good but the weather is great. it seems mainlanders miss their family and dont stay teaching in hawaii more than 3 years so they have to hire about 200 teachers every year.
ironman510:
Could you share your experience going through it? Was it difficult or easy to get through? I'm guessing after reading the site I would have to take a trip home to take the test..No prob there.
Spiderboenz:
Dont have to go home, there are testing sites jn south korea, taiwan, abd the philippines
Spiderboenz:
Damn typos. I checked with them on online testing today, will let you know what they respond with.
You'll know about any changes before it happens, any new laws as well, they'll be tested first and I can't see this happen now, maybe in 3 to 5 years later. So yes having a back up plan is important.. Like Hulks advice, I'm already on the second stage to get my wife a green card. If the sh*t its the fan, we'll be ready for a new adventure.. But I'm like most in China with family, I don't wish to leave after finding a good balance in life.
There is now a glut of fluently bi-lingual Chinese uni grads come back to roost in China and there is a lot of pressure on Big Red to find these kids whose influential parents spent $100K for their diploma abroad to get them hired in China. A job war has begun friends. The visa laws for foreigners will keep getting more stringent as these bi-lingual Chinese displace the FTs now in China. It may take 2-3 more years but according to the CFTU 2013 teacher census, there are already 8% less foreign teachers working in China today than 2012. Teachers in China should be looking for other gigs here if they plan to stay long term.
http://open.salon.com/blog/china_business_central/2013/09/11/cftu_report...
ironman510:
Let subtract 2% from that 8% of teachers the worked at EF and resigned due to BS, haha joke.
TMaster:
Your statement assumes that all those miracle students educated abroad will live up to expectations.
They won't. But the illusion will work for some time.
sorrel:
back in 'foreigner land' most of the Chinese students i meet here have not significantly improved their English due to the herd mentality they have. They stay in groups where one spokes-person does all the interacting with locals. If they are expecting to use their english 'skills' to become teachers, and replace native speakers in China, then the level of spoken english will not improve in China.
Each school and university here recognises the fact that native speakers give students a better idea on how a foreign language is used by a (well) native.
True, China will probably work towards eliminating foreign teachers as much as they can, but the long term result will be the level of spoken english will remain poor.
A foreign language teacher also brings the cultural aspect to the class, something that can not be replicated by a local teacher. My knowledge and understanding of European langauges and culture was enhanced by my interaction and teaching by native speakers.
ironman510:
To be honest Sorrel, China probably wants us to speak Mandarin in the next 50 years as the number#1 language. That will never happen, but I wouldn't be surprise if the they fool them selves into thinking that..
coineineagh:
@sorrel: but the cultural aspect is not wanted, in my experience. when we share western culture with chinese, we promote values like individualism, creativity, independence, freedom, and other subtle concepts which undermine the vision of reality that Chinese schools are putting out there. For the rest, it's obvious that no Chinese student could match the level of English a native speaker has, but culture is not a perk. A Chinese, who never tried to challenge his/her own preconcieved notions of foreign countries while traveling abroad, is much preferred. Confirming prejudices is comforting, and that's what schools like to sell here. That herd mentality has the added perk that the Chinese student returns to mother China with biases intact. Even the ones that want to stay abroad don't even change much: They like to take advantage of the freedom, but they don't try to understand the underlying values.
sorrel:
@coineinagh
I agree about the cultural aspect not being of any value as regards English learning in China.
However, i was given a book to use on the different cultures of English speaking countries to use for my classes. It was so laughably inaccurate i didn't use it at all. 
I regularly receive demands to 'tell us about your culture'
BUT while local education promotes a 'harmonious society', this is being undermined by the internet. The result seems to be a country that is both 'traditional' and 'modern' without the necessary tools to critically process either: a version of schizophrenia. Even when 'traditional' ideas are blindingly obviously farcial (take the attitude to women who have given birth and the "1 month in bed" as an example), there are those who know it is insane but still accept it, despite all evidence to the contrary.
of the students i have been in contact with, a few have understood the connection between language and culture and have actively engaged in understanding both.
I'll just say AGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH ! it is a frustrating situation to be in, but i challenge my students as much as i can 
philbravery:
I have to agree with EZ4ME2b In is no surprise that China would use protectionism to keep local Chinese jobs . However like everything else in China that is half done the system will stall till they find a Grad student that didn't buy their degree .
ironman510:
I've really got to thank you for posting that article link. It's really good knowing that SAFEA and China knows that those burglar agents are really giving China bad record. After reading this it looks like Certified English teachers won't be enough to replace those of us with Masters or Bachelor Degree + TEFL or TESOL and experience..
Englteachted:
cftu is a BS organization possibly run by the govt in order to help schools know who is reporting on them so they can be blacklisted.
Trying to either get rid of or replace native english teachers with Chinese 'expats' would never work here;
1) the parents would never go for it, they are the payers, and will not want their chidren/teenagers taught English by Chinese 'teachers'. They would feel they were being duped.
2) The Chinese teachers' pronunciation is, at best average, this they would pass on to their students.
3)They would & do teach English as it's another subject e.g. Maths, Biology.... all recital & memory
For many reasons, it just makes plain sense that we teach our own language...then again...common sense, in many ways, isn't the forte of this country.
ironman510:
What worries me is that the gov may force parents to accept Bilingual Chinese teachers, maybe they would force parents to take pride in this.
My sister-in-law works at PSB and she told me that there is a cap being put on new Z visa applicants next year based on the population of a city and for Beijing the cap is 15,000. So I think there is clearly a move to protect local jobs and keep foreign inflow to a minimum.
mike695ca:
your numbers have to be waaaay off. Beijing must have over 100 000 plus foreigners working in beijing. That would cause quite the uproar..Could the numbers of people here in china that have a proper Z visa be so small?
ironman510:
Maybe that 15,000 is the public school and university sector.. Maybe it doesn't include the private school sector.. EZ4ME2B fill us in man..
ironman510:
I just had a memory recall, when I was in Philippines I met a U.S embassy officer, we joked about how many applicants get rejected U.S visa's and why and then he told me each month there are only a special amount of visa's that are allowed to be given.. So maybe, just maybe that's China's next Z visa move.. So IF this turns out to be true, then stick to your school or company, best renew and not move..
Englteachted:
"So IF this turns out to be true, then stick to your school or company, best renew and not move"
This is what they are going for. They are sick and tired of FTs wanting honesty , up front communication and standards. They want to be able to better control FTs and make them bend over and take it just like their local counterparts.
I once worked at a university where the teachers (Chinese) were not paid for a few months. No one complained, but in conversations with them they knew that they could never do that to FTs. They knew FTs had choices and therefore would not tolerate late payment. They are trying to put FTs in a position where we have fewer choices. Changing jobs now requires so many unnecessary documents. They required me to provide proof that my previous school paid the required taxes. If the school refused then you would be screwed.
ironman510:
Wuu shaka laka, yeah sounds about right, it's just something you can feel, control location and work and history or FTs in the city is their main goal..This is just a crazy guess, but maybe the 5 year in a row working law that's being tested in Shandong and Sichuan has something tied up with that 15000 Z application stuff, like after a teacher works here 5 years, get him out, replace him with a new FT.
Somebody has been smoking something. As Sorrel (I believe) stated returning overseas students are not competing with FTs . The overwhelming majority do not come back and teach. Most, have jobs waiting for them because of their parents connections.
ironman510:
Where there's smoke there's someone smoking it, let hope it's all smoke and mirrors on their side.....
Teachers are the curse of expats here in Beijing.
Please leave the city ASAP.
ironman510:
Your are really jealous or envy something about us..Where does all this anger come from?
queenelisabeth:
Jealous? Envy? Come on man... I work for a MNC, I'm a real expat with a real job.
I'm sick of people asking me if I teach. I feel insulted.
Teachers, move to other countries and keep China clean.
ironman510:
Still sound jealous to me man.. A job doesn't make the man. Thus being a teacher or a CEO doesn't allow us to judge the persons heart and who he or she really is. I think you just proved that 90% teachers in China are better then you.. Having a good job doesn't make you better then a 7-11, the heart of the person does. We have seen the evil in you. I hope you learn to change that.. No girl or man should marry you until then..(Sorry I don't know if you are a male or female based on your ID name
ironman510:
last point that I would like to make. If you are not happy with the people around you then it's best for you to leave. That will logically solve the issue. Then no one will ask you questions you don't like..
JacobJohn:
I "respect", I mean I understand your hate...it's just a stage on the path to peace... only if you want!
jmrose625:
Yes because our entire existence is defined by our jobs. I hope I never have the displeasure of meeting you.
ironman510:
Well jmrose625 & Queen if you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us.
coineineagh:
I work for a MNC. Me impotent possum. You show me big lespect! Now begone, beggahz.
