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Q: TEFL, TESOL, CELTA, etc. Which one is not going to limit me?
Basically, just trying to figure out which course to take. I may not want to stick around in China, and I would like to ensure the course I take will be accepted internationally. There is a mass amount of information online, mainly by solicitors trying to sell me their program, and I want to read what other have to say about the subject.
8 years 19 weeks ago in Teaching & Learning - China
There's a lot of MIS-information thrown about by people who don't actually know what they're talking about. As I shall demonstrate...
Firstly - rant mode ON:
TEFL and TESOL are merely acronyms! In, and of, their own right, they are not (and never can be) 'accredited'. The ONLY thing that will ever offer 'accreditation' is a university of other 'RTO' (as we call them in Australia - Registered Training Organisation) that has the authority from the education department to allow such accreditations.
Even the acronym PhD does not, by itself, mean it is accredited (you can find 'legit' PhDs on the internet from non-accredited 'schools' and 'universities'...!!!)
So - knowing this FACT might go some way to helping you get the RIGHT answer!
/rant
Consider this link: http://www.postgraduatesearch.com/masters/tefl-teaching-english-as-a-for...
Master's degree programs in the UK from real and accredited universities. Offering a MA in TEFL (sometimes Applied Linguistics TEFL)..
Do the same for TESOL, and you can find similar results!
TEFL.. TESOL.. acronyms! Both can be fully accredited!
CELTA is a different kettle of fish, because it is unique! CELTA means - Certificate of English Language Teaching to Adults, and comes from the fully accredited Cambridge University ESOL department
People like the name 'Cambridge University', so it is usually seen as the best. CU also as a very robust monitoring system in place.. to EVERY course, a 3rd, independent, teaching supervisor is sent to ensure that all coursework and teaching is carried out to the strict guidelines that CU put in place. It also takes A LOT to become a CELTA teacher... And, it can be pretty tough if doing the 4-week intensive (DON'T do it!!! Go for 5 week minimum! And this comes from someone who is well versed in tertiary academics AND an experienced teacher!!! ) Once you've finished your course, the trainers send off your coursework to AGAIN get assessed - before you're given your certificate. There IS a pass/fail rate!
Unlike what Bill suggested above, it's not exactly that clear-cut... though I do get why it can be seen that way! Cambridge has the name... it's a name most people reecognise. Trinity College London also has a CertTESOL. Also quite popular, and just as accredited...
There are other courses out there, that will also be accredited, and worth your money to do... but the Cambridge and the Trinity (not including Baachelor or Masters degrees) tend to be the most recognised, and valued.
There ARE definite dodgey certifications out there - using whatever letters they want. China doesn't care where they come from... but other places will.
Your BEST option will be the Master's degree - Education, Applied Linguistics, etc... a LOT of universities offer these online, and the degree statement will NOT indicate it is online (not that it matters! If you're doing it online, it means you can be working in the job as well... if you're a full-time student, then you only do the theory BEFORE you go out to teach...
Hotwater:
Good rant!
I understand what you mean. My understanding of the qualifications TEFL & TESOL are that the actual value of the diplomas/certificates vary on how they are taught and the actual providers and whether said providers are certified/accredited.
An online TEFL certificate from "mickey-mouse provider" in my view is worth nothing (though to the Chinese work permit offices means they'll issue said WP).
Whereas a minimum 4-week full-time course, with monitored teaching practice is actually worth something if taught and certified by a registered education provider.
I'll give you an example to folllow-up yours from my experience. My experiences of "teaching" was creating induction courses for new Engineers in the company I used to work with ScotsAlan. I used to carry out the induction training in the companies Engineering systems and products for new starters (English and Chinese Engineers). As part of that I also created the full induction plans.
I had no experience in teaching but knew my subjects inside-out. I was also concerned that after training the Chinese Engineers to do my job I'd then be made redundant.
Off my own back I enrollled at the local adult education college on a teaching course. This is a UK recognised qualification that is accepted in all adult teaching colleges as the minimum required to teach. City and Guilds 730/7 CITAL (Certificate in Teaching Adult Learners) - another acronym but one backed up and accredited by an authorised UK examinations body.
The course covered learning styles, lesson planning, etc. Basics that all teachers need You had to carry out a minimum of 40 hours teaching as part of the course, 16 hours (minimum) of which were witnessed by a qualified teacher.
It used to be worth the first half of a Certificate of Education (most UK secondary teachers who've done a degreee first take the Post Graduate Certificate of Education). Unfortunately they downgraded the 730/7 slightly in the year I did it so I couldn't go immediately onto the 2nd year of the part-time Cert-Ed. The Cert-Ed allows you to teach in schools with appropriate additional qualifiations.
So my reponse to the OP, as I poorly said before, is if he is going to want to teach English as a Foreign Language outside China then he should go for a recognised qualifition, from an accredited organisation.
Shining_brow:
The silly thing is back home, a M.Ed. in TESOL still doesn't allow one to teach in Australia! (I get it - it's mostly theory, not practical... and it's not subject specific except as English as a Second/Foreign language - which is quite different to English taught in our schools).
In order to be allowed to even teach migrant Engllsh at a vocational college (TAFE), we need to get a lower level certification - Cert IV in Workplace Training and Assessment!!!
GarrettAbbott:
I currently have my BA in Math for Teacher and will be obtaining my MAT: Special Education in the spring of 2016 (both accredited). I am just making sure I am not limiting myself to China only. So far, from what I have read, the CELTA seems like the best. It is just costly, but I guess you get what you paid for. I was kind of hoping for an easier route.
Thank you for all your information, and the link is very helpful.
Another question, if you don't mind. If I were to only teach in China does it matter which one I have?
Shining_brow:
Garrett - the answer to this depends entirely on one thing - where are you from?
In your home country, can you get yourself a Post-Grad Dip Ed.? That used to be the way back in Australia, before full bachelor degrees became available - we'd have 3-4 year bachelor degrees in relevant subject, followed by a 1-year teaching PGDipEd.
If you can go that route, I think you'd be far better off!
CELTA - unless you're looking to teach English outside of China, not worth doing. As you said, expensive, and no, you're not really likely to get that money back any time soon teaching English (teaching Math, however - yes!!! And, I presume as you wrote 'math', instead of 'mathS' that you're from North America...).
Chinese HR tends not to have the faintest idea about qualifications in the rest of the world (or, really for that matter, in China! :p) It's just a piece of paper with some words on it (not too dissimilar to 'kleenex', or 'wondersoft'....). I'm even considering doing a course in Academic Writing from Harvard's Extension school (all online stuff) just to fluff the resume! "Oooh... you went to Harvard!!!"
TBH - CELTA is good for lesson plans... and that's about all! And as any teacher will tell you - particularly here - those plans fall apart VERY quickly... (but at least having some vague idea of what you'll do - AND a back-up plan - is a good idea). The other thing in relation to CELTA and China - you're not actually expected to teach English... you're here to try to improve their spoken English - ie, get them to talk, and sound better. That's not really 'teaching English'. The local teachers do most of the 'real' teaching of English here - vocab and grammar etc. You're just here for 'style', and pronunciation.
So - not to answer your question - stick to teaching math. There's enough of a requirement for it here that you'll be ok, and have a better income and lifestyle for it.
icnif77:
Go for the cheapest one (i-to-i), because you have an degree, which you can use plenty in China.
You need TEFL Cert. just for Z visa, and you can upgrade later, if you plan to leave China.
Mr_Sausage:
Trinity TESOL is accredited buddy. New Trinity TESOL and Cambridge CELTA both equal level 5 on the strength of qualification, certification...fact check more. Tefl = balls...
Mr_Sausage:
Trinity TESOL is accredited buddy. New Trinity TESOL and Cambridge CELTA both equal level 5 on the strength of qualification, certification...fact check more. Tefl = balls...
Mr_Sausage:
Trinity TESOL is accredited buddy. New Trinity TESOL and Cambridge CELTA both equal level 5 on the strength of qualification, certification...fact check more. Tefl = balls...
Shining_brow:
Mr Sausage - you should also learn to read before you post... I mentioned Trinity, AND said it was accredited!
And, as I said, TEFL is no more 'accredited' than TESOL - it depends SOLELY on the organisation that's running the course, and what they decide to call it. So, a Master of Arts in TEFL from an accredited university is just as good as a Master of Arts in TESOL...
Please - go ahead and check my facts!
You can get a TEFL by doing an online course. Not worth the paper it is written on!
CELTA is, in my view, a more professional qualification if you want to teach outside China
Hopefully you'll get answers from some real English teachers as I'm just an Engineer who takes an interest.....
Hotwater:
Amazes me! Surely there should be some monitored teaching practice, not just theory?
TEFL isnt worth the money at all. its not accredited. I dont know about the other two, but im sure someone here does.
Do you want an internationally recognized course? You have three choices:
1. CELTA
2. CELTA
3. DELTA
Get it? hahahaha
Do you want something to get you by in China?
TEFL TESOL whatever
I'd say go for CELTA, especially if you plan to work elsewhere than in China.
The main thing will/can limit you at English teaching is your personality, IMHO.
I've never work as an English teacher anywhere else, but in China. I have 'i-to-i' TEFL Cert., which is OK to get all proper documents (Working permit) in China.
I tried to get gig in EU by sending my CVs, but nobody there is really interested .
I'm Non-native teacher, and that most likely limit my chances in EU (and elsewhere), despite I don't need WP as every other Native (except Ukies, Irish....) need for work there.
I think, another most important EU 'no' reason is my lousy TEFL Cert.
Hotwater:
Irish don't need WP to work in EU.
You've already answered why you can't get an English teaching job in the EU. TEFL isn't a certified qualification whereas CELTA & DELTA are.
icnif77:
''except Ukies, Irish' or 'they don't need WP in EU."
Many reasons, why I can't get it. In my eyes, it's fairly easy for EU school to get experienced FT, who can start with work next day.
I can't tell for sure what is the real reason. Is it 'Non' or it's 'i-to-i'.
IMO, with 6y (certified) teaching experience in China and no need for EU WP, i-to-i shouldn't be that important reason. I could upgrade it/get better cert., while working in EU, but no chance.
EU offers suck big time comparable to China: 30% higher working load, no apartment with 5 times higher living expenses in EU for the same salary as in China. That's job for EU students/travellers.
Shining_brow:
That last, Icnif, is why I'm still here! Granted, I've never seen the real high-end university offers (never really looked), but the cost of (that better) living can be a killer!
And I'm not sure if the privates pay as well and are as readity available...
icnif77:
Uni offers in China won't get you anywhere. You take it, because of loads of free time for privates. That's the way, you can supplement 6k Uni's job.
I met Dutch dude in Lin'an, Zhejiang. He studied Chinese, and taught English on the side. He was telling me, he get privates fairly easy. Just by sticking his 'advert' on Uni's Board. He organised his own Summer Camp. That was all by his talking. I've never seen it for real.
I'm in the similar position now, but I'll work with privates through Training mill. TOEFL, IELTS and some classes with pre-school kids. Brand new Training mill without too many students, yet.
They still didn't reply, if they'll pay what I want. Accountant told me they will, but I didn't get confirmation of the boss yet.
In the meantime, I'm already busy with Santa Claus and Christmas celebration for kids at Mill. I won't do it for free.
Best paying full-time would be International Schools, but I as Non don't qualify. They also want 40h week with office hours.
There's a lot of MIS-information thrown about by people who don't actually know what they're talking about. As I shall demonstrate...
Firstly - rant mode ON:
TEFL and TESOL are merely acronyms! In, and of, their own right, they are not (and never can be) 'accredited'. The ONLY thing that will ever offer 'accreditation' is a university of other 'RTO' (as we call them in Australia - Registered Training Organisation) that has the authority from the education department to allow such accreditations.
Even the acronym PhD does not, by itself, mean it is accredited (you can find 'legit' PhDs on the internet from non-accredited 'schools' and 'universities'...!!!)
So - knowing this FACT might go some way to helping you get the RIGHT answer!
/rant
Consider this link: http://www.postgraduatesearch.com/masters/tefl-teaching-english-as-a-for...
Master's degree programs in the UK from real and accredited universities. Offering a MA in TEFL (sometimes Applied Linguistics TEFL)..
Do the same for TESOL, and you can find similar results!
TEFL.. TESOL.. acronyms! Both can be fully accredited!
CELTA is a different kettle of fish, because it is unique! CELTA means - Certificate of English Language Teaching to Adults, and comes from the fully accredited Cambridge University ESOL department
People like the name 'Cambridge University', so it is usually seen as the best. CU also as a very robust monitoring system in place.. to EVERY course, a 3rd, independent, teaching supervisor is sent to ensure that all coursework and teaching is carried out to the strict guidelines that CU put in place. It also takes A LOT to become a CELTA teacher... And, it can be pretty tough if doing the 4-week intensive (DON'T do it!!! Go for 5 week minimum! And this comes from someone who is well versed in tertiary academics AND an experienced teacher!!! ) Once you've finished your course, the trainers send off your coursework to AGAIN get assessed - before you're given your certificate. There IS a pass/fail rate!
Unlike what Bill suggested above, it's not exactly that clear-cut... though I do get why it can be seen that way! Cambridge has the name... it's a name most people reecognise. Trinity College London also has a CertTESOL. Also quite popular, and just as accredited...
There are other courses out there, that will also be accredited, and worth your money to do... but the Cambridge and the Trinity (not including Baachelor or Masters degrees) tend to be the most recognised, and valued.
There ARE definite dodgey certifications out there - using whatever letters they want. China doesn't care where they come from... but other places will.
Your BEST option will be the Master's degree - Education, Applied Linguistics, etc... a LOT of universities offer these online, and the degree statement will NOT indicate it is online (not that it matters! If you're doing it online, it means you can be working in the job as well... if you're a full-time student, then you only do the theory BEFORE you go out to teach...
Hotwater:
Good rant!
I understand what you mean. My understanding of the qualifications TEFL & TESOL are that the actual value of the diplomas/certificates vary on how they are taught and the actual providers and whether said providers are certified/accredited.
An online TEFL certificate from "mickey-mouse provider" in my view is worth nothing (though to the Chinese work permit offices means they'll issue said WP).
Whereas a minimum 4-week full-time course, with monitored teaching practice is actually worth something if taught and certified by a registered education provider.
I'll give you an example to folllow-up yours from my experience. My experiences of "teaching" was creating induction courses for new Engineers in the company I used to work with ScotsAlan. I used to carry out the induction training in the companies Engineering systems and products for new starters (English and Chinese Engineers). As part of that I also created the full induction plans.
I had no experience in teaching but knew my subjects inside-out. I was also concerned that after training the Chinese Engineers to do my job I'd then be made redundant.
Off my own back I enrollled at the local adult education college on a teaching course. This is a UK recognised qualification that is accepted in all adult teaching colleges as the minimum required to teach. City and Guilds 730/7 CITAL (Certificate in Teaching Adult Learners) - another acronym but one backed up and accredited by an authorised UK examinations body.
The course covered learning styles, lesson planning, etc. Basics that all teachers need You had to carry out a minimum of 40 hours teaching as part of the course, 16 hours (minimum) of which were witnessed by a qualified teacher.
It used to be worth the first half of a Certificate of Education (most UK secondary teachers who've done a degreee first take the Post Graduate Certificate of Education). Unfortunately they downgraded the 730/7 slightly in the year I did it so I couldn't go immediately onto the 2nd year of the part-time Cert-Ed. The Cert-Ed allows you to teach in schools with appropriate additional qualifiations.
So my reponse to the OP, as I poorly said before, is if he is going to want to teach English as a Foreign Language outside China then he should go for a recognised qualifition, from an accredited organisation.
Shining_brow:
The silly thing is back home, a M.Ed. in TESOL still doesn't allow one to teach in Australia! (I get it - it's mostly theory, not practical... and it's not subject specific except as English as a Second/Foreign language - which is quite different to English taught in our schools).
In order to be allowed to even teach migrant Engllsh at a vocational college (TAFE), we need to get a lower level certification - Cert IV in Workplace Training and Assessment!!!
GarrettAbbott:
I currently have my BA in Math for Teacher and will be obtaining my MAT: Special Education in the spring of 2016 (both accredited). I am just making sure I am not limiting myself to China only. So far, from what I have read, the CELTA seems like the best. It is just costly, but I guess you get what you paid for. I was kind of hoping for an easier route.
Thank you for all your information, and the link is very helpful.
Another question, if you don't mind. If I were to only teach in China does it matter which one I have?
Shining_brow:
Garrett - the answer to this depends entirely on one thing - where are you from?
In your home country, can you get yourself a Post-Grad Dip Ed.? That used to be the way back in Australia, before full bachelor degrees became available - we'd have 3-4 year bachelor degrees in relevant subject, followed by a 1-year teaching PGDipEd.
If you can go that route, I think you'd be far better off!
CELTA - unless you're looking to teach English outside of China, not worth doing. As you said, expensive, and no, you're not really likely to get that money back any time soon teaching English (teaching Math, however - yes!!! And, I presume as you wrote 'math', instead of 'mathS' that you're from North America...).
Chinese HR tends not to have the faintest idea about qualifications in the rest of the world (or, really for that matter, in China! :p) It's just a piece of paper with some words on it (not too dissimilar to 'kleenex', or 'wondersoft'....). I'm even considering doing a course in Academic Writing from Harvard's Extension school (all online stuff) just to fluff the resume! "Oooh... you went to Harvard!!!"
TBH - CELTA is good for lesson plans... and that's about all! And as any teacher will tell you - particularly here - those plans fall apart VERY quickly... (but at least having some vague idea of what you'll do - AND a back-up plan - is a good idea). The other thing in relation to CELTA and China - you're not actually expected to teach English... you're here to try to improve their spoken English - ie, get them to talk, and sound better. That's not really 'teaching English'. The local teachers do most of the 'real' teaching of English here - vocab and grammar etc. You're just here for 'style', and pronunciation.
So - not to answer your question - stick to teaching math. There's enough of a requirement for it here that you'll be ok, and have a better income and lifestyle for it.
icnif77:
Go for the cheapest one (i-to-i), because you have an degree, which you can use plenty in China.
You need TEFL Cert. just for Z visa, and you can upgrade later, if you plan to leave China.
Mr_Sausage:
Trinity TESOL is accredited buddy. New Trinity TESOL and Cambridge CELTA both equal level 5 on the strength of qualification, certification...fact check more. Tefl = balls...
Mr_Sausage:
Trinity TESOL is accredited buddy. New Trinity TESOL and Cambridge CELTA both equal level 5 on the strength of qualification, certification...fact check more. Tefl = balls...
Mr_Sausage:
Trinity TESOL is accredited buddy. New Trinity TESOL and Cambridge CELTA both equal level 5 on the strength of qualification, certification...fact check more. Tefl = balls...
Shining_brow:
Mr Sausage - you should also learn to read before you post... I mentioned Trinity, AND said it was accredited!
And, as I said, TEFL is no more 'accredited' than TESOL - it depends SOLELY on the organisation that's running the course, and what they decide to call it. So, a Master of Arts in TEFL from an accredited university is just as good as a Master of Arts in TESOL...
Please - go ahead and check my facts!
There's no shortcut to becoming an ESL/EFL teacher. Unless you get a TESL or TESOL degree from an accredited university, you're wasting your time and money.
Hotwater:
Not in China. A BA/BSC in any subject and a basic TEFL/TESOL certificate will do.
Shining_brow:
And, I sort of disagree... I've been doing my M.Ed (TESOL) - and compared to the CELTA, it sucks arse! And, CELTA compared to actual experience of teaching (granted, in the Chinese education system) sucks arse!
CELTA is good for a real, good teaching job - so it's a waste of money here.
Anything higher - such as master's degree level - is too theory-heavy,and not enough practicality.
(I don't know about Bachelor level - I know it does take a LOT of practicums to complete - ie, in real schools...)
The only thing that won't limit you is a degree in English, Linguistics or Education, since you can also use those in English-speaking countries.
Other than that, start with TEFL since it's easiest to get, then TESOL or CELTA. You can get all these at the same time if you want, and they're much cheaper than a degree, less time, and will get you work in most ESL countries.
Shining_brow:
You didn't read my rant above - did you??? You know - the highest rated straight under the OP....
Shining_brow:
As for your first paragraph.... depends if you're talking Bachelor or Master's level.
Also - teach what? B.Ed. in most countries IS the standard teacher qualification. B. or M in Linguistics doesn't mean much in most English speaking countries, unless you want to move into university level linguistics teaching.
B/M..A. (English) - again, can't use to teach English as a foreign/second language in most English-speaking countries - unless you're teaching English Literature - it's NOT about language teaching! You'd still need an education qualification to round it out to be allowed to actually teach in most school classrooms.
You might get away with any of the above 3 in a migrant English program - but it's a BIG might!
