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Q: Texas religious education vs. Chinese education?
I know many foreign complain Chinese education systen, and i agree. i think chinese education has many problems, but not so bad problems. i look in news and see in texas or maybe arizone they have very religious education,against science and have to recite religious things by hear, and i find actually maybe our education not so bad.
i understand foreigners complain chinese system because they work here so they can see the problem, but dont you think is actually better than american systen in texas or arizone?
11 years 32 weeks ago in Teaching & Learning - China
I agree that teaching religious based 'fact' in schools is a bad thing. Technically, if the school is receiving federal funding it is illegal to do. In our constitution is a section on the separation between church and state. However, some people try to break that separation every chance they get.
But, with that said, I still think the American way has the advantage in that it teaches kids to think rather than how to memorize. Memorization is good for passing tests, but it is not so good when it comes to real world applications like critical thinking.
However, my kids will be attending Chinese schools until 6th grade because I think the Chinese teach better study habits. From 7th grade on they will attend foreign schools so they can learn to use their imaginations and critical thinking skills.
Hugh.G.Rection:
Wow, remarkably similar thinking and plans to my own.
I think teaching intelligent design as an equal of Darwinian natural selection is as ridiculous as teaching the Stork theory of conception and birth equally to sexual reproduction and human pregnancy.
I also mirror your intentions over my daughter's education. I would like her to get the good study habits, but not the poor study techniques, so she will go to Chinese school until the end of year 6 (age 10) then we will return to the UK for her secondary and (hopefully) higher education.
Hugh.G.Rection:
One point John, I watch the Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science on youtube regularly and recently the USA supreme court overturned that ruling in a fundamental way.
Basically someone challenged a schools legal right to teach intelligent design under the constitutional clause separating the state from religion, it was defeated as the Supreme court judges ruled intelligent design wasn't teaching religion as it was "just words" (and yes 'just words' was part of the exact phrase used, allegedly.)
P.S. Not that I believe in any way this makes the US education system as bad as the Chinese one.
I don't know for certain, but those students in Texas or Arizona will more than likely have a choice to go to other schools, where as the Chinese only have the option to go to schools where they teach only what is required for tests, and also other 'national classes' that are in some peoples opinion quite wrong.
The difference is that certain states like Texas have gone backwards in their educational agenda whereas most states have gone forward (OK just my opinion).
Everything in America is elected (almost) including the local school boards that choose the curriculum (although much of this is dictated by the state government). The problem lies with the interest...knowledge and intelligence of the people who elect these decision makers...but at least they had the choice and they chose.
Just talking about subjects like science or mathematics, in which places of the most renowned rankings (like OECD), are the Chinese students in comparison with their U.S. counterparts?
Yes, the critical thinking and so on, but… We can actually say that the “American way” is “superior”? I think it’s not so simple; the Chinese must be doing something right, on the other hand, they do not have to worry that their kids could be educated by someone like David Koresh.
ccp logic: because a problem exist somewhere it justify the problem existing in china.
usa is one of the worst examples of a developed democracy. texas and az are among the worst states in the usa. so you are comparing the best of china to the worst of the usa.
haha you will go very far. but usa still produces some of the worlds best innovators . and china with it's 1.5 billion pop cant stop copying the usa (see mcmansion photos)
i'll put the results of the usa school system against the results of the chinese school system any day.
but you know what , i am not satisfied with it. i believe the usa can do much better. is this the best china can do???
Scandinavian:
could you enlighten me on "mcmansion" (in relation to China)
crimochina:
http://images.echinacities.com/detail/8698-American-McMansions-in-Rural-China
Xpat John hit the nail on the head. I was born and raised in Texas, and I went to a private christian school kindergarten through 8th grade. Yes I was indoctrinated, and yes, I also think it is totally wrong. I dont think education should push any religious or political down kids throats.
And I went to a normal high school after that. And since it was public school, there was no religious ideas pushed in the textbooks. I am sure that some textbooks out their have crazy shit in it, but as for mine, I dont think evolution/creationism was even touched on. There is that undertone of christianity throughout all of society in the bible belt, but you cant teach it in school, so its pretty much just left out.
I think my private school taught me good study habits, and my high school was decent. When I went on to university, I was well prepared to think for myself. I studied and found that all the religious nonsense was just that: nonsense. But through it all, I think my education was light years beyond the chinese education system. Learning critical thinking and to think independently was what best prepared me for university and life.
I have taught all ages here, and even six months in a high school. I think their style of teaching for the tests is useless and is turning out students without necessary skills for higher learning and practical situations.
The religious education is bad, but in the end, its still a western style education system, which has my vote any day over the current system here.
It depends on what kind of Religious school
I too went to a private Christian school (Catholic) until the tenth grade. We studied evolution, we studied Darwin and the teachers did not "diss" either one.
I would not want my kids to suffer under what passes for "education" in China (rote memorization, learning how to pass gao kao, lack of creativity, lack of questioning, etc.).
Now then, before people "rip me a new one" I do want to go on record saying that religious education does NOT have any place in a Public School. If parents want their kids to have a religious schooling then enroll them in a religious school or send them to Sunday school
Note: The Jesuit priest and paleontologist Pierre Teilhard Chardin was one of the scientists who took part in the investigation of the Peking Man Skull.
Not all religious figures are "anti Darwin" or "anti evolution".
Hugh.G.Rection:
GR, as a quite serious Secular Humanist I disagree, I think Religious Education should be compulsory in ALL schools, it should be mandatory that all children are taught the facts about ALL the different religions.
I can see no better way of encouraging free thought and probably Atheism than that.
GuilinRaf:
Interesting point!
I was thinking more along the lines of what parents wanting to teach their kids about their particular faith (ie, if they should be Christian, Jewish, etc).
You bring a good point.
mattsm84:
That point about religion and science is a good one. People forget, but both Newton and Darwin were educated at religious institutions, and the man who developed the concept of the big bang theory, Father George Lemaitre, and the theory of genetics, Gergor Mendel, were members of the catholic clergy.
No, I don't. The difference here is that Chinese Schools are uniformly poor from kindergarten through university because the method they used, rote memorization without understanding in preparation for the next big test, while in TX and AZ the problem lies in a specific part of the curriculum. Put another way, Texas and Arizona schools are lousy for about three weeks a year for grade 9 students in one subject, when they reach the unit on evolution--which they will end up learning about in their required biology classes while in college. Once that unit is over, they are back in line with everyone else. In China, the methodology never changes, so it remains lousy in all subject areas at all grade levels.
This whole religious education thing is quite interesting. Is it just me or does it seem that religious "education" had a reverse effect (becoming staunchly opposed to religion) on most of those who had it while those who didn't have it are likely to practice it later in their life.
Scandinavian:
Sadly I doubt that religious education works as a way of promoting non-religious beliefs. It would be interesting with some stats on this.
pbrown22:
As someone who has a faith and thinks religion has a very real and useful place in this world it is sometimes hard to accept the seemingly results of religious education on personal faith itself. Seen too many guys come out and absolutely loathe whatever religion was taught. That being said, academically I don't think it hurts anyone to enroll in a said school as long as that school is teaching all subjects. I've seen plenty of smart and successful guys with very good critical thinking skills who went to those type schools.
Hugh.G.Rection:
If religious education is strictly controlled so that it is NEVER allowed to become proselytising and instead is limited to teaching the known facts and claims about ALL the major religions, it is my belief that it will lead to a significant decrease in the religiosity of our youth and an increase in racial and religious tolerance, (of our youth).
pbrown22:
The problem is that its very hard to impossible to teach religious education without having a bias. The ones who have a faith and want to teach RE will logically want to share theirs if they think its a good thing. Some people may believe it but naturally most people will feel uncomfortable thinking they are being forced to believe something and will eventually be turned off. The ones who don't think its a good thing will want to try to prove it wrong or at least teach in a way that makes it very boring and impractical turning everyone off from it and again increasing religious intolerance.
Well it would seem that your education is somewhat lacking, for your English is poor. My step daughter came to the US when she was 12 years old. She was the number one student in her class in middle school and an honor student in high school. So the Chinese primary education can not be so bad. Most religions are taught from birth. Brain washing. Everyone has a god gene but some of us think and don't take all the mumbo jumbo for real. I ask you do you beleive in Adam and Eve? The answer is always yes. God created Adam, Yes is the answer. Then he took Adams rib and created Eve? Yes is the answer. The why did god give Adam breasts? All utter nonsens. Franck3
Firstly let me say that I know nothing of the Texas or Arizona education systems, but I think this question needs to be looked at from another perspective. By asking whether Chinese education is better than America's religious education it presupposes that both systems are for education. They are not, and in that sense the OP is trying to compare chalk with cheese. We must ask what is an education system for. A truly rounded one is one that prepares the student for the world around them, to be aware of other people and other ways of life, other belief systems and also to develop an ability to think clearly and critically. It should also teach us to question everything. Religion has a place in education but only if taught without bias and is open to teaching about many different belief systems. To teach just one as the "true religion" is wrong and is indoctrination not education. In that sense any western education system that allows only one religion to be taught, as opposed to many or none, fails the education requirement. However where it does fail it fails far less severely than the Chinese system. By my definition the Chinese system is not education, it is memorization for one purpose only, to pass tests. It is also indoctrination in order to keep the population as a whole subservient and accepting of the status quo. Just one indicator of this is when Chinese companies just copy rather than invent. The answer we hear all the time regarding this type of mentality is "this is China this is different". the Chinese system does not even educate people enough to query this, they just accept it. They should be asking why is our system lagging so far behind the western world, why are most of our universities not producing world class results. If I have offended any Chinese readers please accept my apology, but before you reply just ask your self one question. If the Chinese "education" system is so good why do most Chinese parents, if they have the chance, want to send their children abroad for education.
before the big argument of religion in school i was made to memorize the 23rd psalm in third grade and still know it to this day, i guess that makes me mentally ill, not sure, i certainly dont believe in god anymore and for the killing ive done im quite sure hell is a justifiable place for me, in fact i may have a vip seat next to lucifer himself.
i dont think a well rounded education excludes religion no more than it should exclude different cultures,
i find it interesting that someone is denigrating texas when its the only state producing jobs and growing in america of all 50 states in the last 4 years. im not from texas but if i was forced to return ,it would be my home. the best accounting school in the nation is the university of texas , austin , i would put texas education up against any state and the dean of economics at my university last year was a graduate of rice university.
the elite universities harvard etc were founded on religion. i guess all those men were bad and should be in hell for eternity and stricken from all encyclopedias
i find it interesting how much europe has suffered culturally, economically since religion became a joke in the bars not to be taken seriously,
can any society maintain fair moral rights and rule of law without religions should be the question, not whether we believe anything.
catholic education is still some of the best schools in america based on friends ive known that received that education, i have never been in a catholic church but they are doing something right.
Hugh.G.Rection:
If you need religion to teach you morals you are in effect admitting that were it not for (insert your religious book here) you would happily murder, rape and steal.
That doesn't make you sound very moral to me.
As to educated men of history being religious, well yes, but if you look at what happened to anyone who openly admitted to not believing, it is hardly surprising that the vast majority at least admitted outwardly that they believed. Just look at what happened to Galileo.
ambivalentmace:
i just wish the non religious argument could be defended by a civilization or country that has rule of law and good fair government that had no basis on religion, it would be easier to defend the seculiar view. unfortunately i have to say my view on non religion is not defendable, perhaps in the future generations, this will change.
Hugh.G.Rection:
Religion was humanities first (and worst) attempt at explaining the world around them. Unfortunately, almost all of them protected their 'uniqueness' by forcing believers to forsake all others and to believe because there was no evidence, therefore becoming self-perpetuating.
The non-religious argument is not an argument. The non-religious are not putting forward a theory, or at least the ones we are putting forward, (evolution, creation of matter, expansion of the universe, gravity etc) have good scientific proof. The burden of proof is NOT on the non-religious to disprove religion, it is after all impossible to totally disprove ANYTHING, the non-religious are not making any such claim, the furthest most will go is to say that there is no proof of a god. The burden of proof is on the religious to prove the theory THEY propose.
I will now quote Christopher Hitchens
Here is my challenge. Let Gerson name one ethical statement made, or one ethical action performed, by a believer that could not have been uttered or done by a nonbeliever. And here is my second challenge. Can any reader of this column think of a wicked statement made, or an evil action performed, precisely because of religious faith?
The second question is easy to answer, is it not? The first -- I have been asking it for some time -- awaits a convincing reply. By what right, then, do the faithful assume this irritating mantle of righteousness? They have as much to apologize for as to explain."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/13/AR2007071301461.html
Hey guys, I saw Mad Men so I know that American businesses are corrupt.
Hey guys, I saw Cops so I know that America is dangerous
Hey guys, I saw Supersize Me so I know that the food in America is unhealthy
Hey guys, I saw The Wire so I know that politicians are corrupt
Hey guys, I saw ChinaDaily so I know that the rest of the world is just as bad as China
This is what you sound like right now. Step outside of China and you'll feel bad for yourself for ever thinking the way you did. I like this place a lot, enough to spend a better part of my life here- but lets not kid ourselves and pretend that the problems in the west are anything even in the same league as the problems here. To do so would be a lie and a denial of the potential that this place has.
mattsm84:
That's it in a nutshell isn't it. Although the Wire is really about the way that social institutions become so set in their ways that they cease to function as they should and begin to rot. If you want to understand the way the Americans perceived their own country during the aughts its worth watching The Wire with Deadwood, The Sopranos, and Six Feet Under as part of a tetralogy. Together they can be taken to represent a sort of life cycle for the American dream at the turn of the century; birth (Deadwood), apogee to decline (The Sopranos), decline into death (The Wire) and rebirth (Six Feet Under).
I've been introducing logical fallacies to my students this week... I should point them to this thread for a nice plethora 
Clearly you read an article that was pulling your leg. They don't teach religion in school that's left for Sunday School classes and those classes are separate from regular classes.
Religious classes aren't bad you should try taking some. You might find out that you will actually enjoy them! And you will learn something I guarantee that!
