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Posts: 347

Governor

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Q: Tianjin, 9000 RMB, is it enough for a salary...?

Hi everyone, 

 

I had this interview and seemed interesting in many ways opposed to the old offer from Changchun, Jilin.   Salary it will be RMB 9000 per month, paying on your own flat, bills etc. The positive part is the weekly working time which is 17 hours, each hour for a 45 minutes duration in a primary school. 

 

This much I had from the recruiter, a nice person indeed and an honest one,  I dare say again. Little information was provided as of now, although by tomorrow I shall have further details. 

 

I also would enhance on the fact that I prefer to pay myself for the house rent instead of being provided, given the independence I love far too much.  The city is next to Beijing and that makes the flat bidding prices to sky rocket as well. From what I know, many employers tend to secure the flat either by providing it itself, or through an additional amount to the salary. The deposit is roughly three times bigger as a down payment added to the the first month house rent. Certainly, I'm told, help might be provided as well.

 

I surely will come later with additional data. 

 

Would you recommend this for a deal at all? 

 

Again, thank you very much for your input on that. 

 

PD. I can live on little, for sure. However, Tianjin doesn't sound as a cheap city and this amount seems to fit the costs in cities in China with a rather modest economy. 

 

6 years 34 weeks ago in  Teaching & Learning - China

 
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1. You'll never get legal working permit/Z visa as Non in any of the T-1 cities;

2. You might have slight chance if you BA was completed in Native English speaking country and you have an authorization stamp from Uni on the degree.

3. As I understand, guanxi doesn't work anymore because School's application for FT's Working permit must/can be submitted to SAFEA only online.

 

PulSartre:

Well, let's be optimistic too. We never know, unless we try it, although ti has to be harder today for the non-native teachers of English. Thank you icniff. 

6 years 34 weeks ago
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Englteachted:

Thank you , for bringing reality all the other posters seem to have no clue who they're dealing with here

6 years 34 weeks ago
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icnif77:

No. 1 is usual stuff out of my own experience. Not that I really long for T1 city, but always when I submitted application/CV it was loads of run around and I've never got job in T1 city in China. Dalian was the biggest city in China I had WP as Non.

2. & 3. I learned in last few months while I was trying to secure RP extension with new employer. I had to exit China on June 22nd and while I am reading Dave's teachers Board, I see that it will be impossible to secure new Z for myself.

Just see what teachers from USA have to go through to qualify for Z application. Non-criminal record/cert. must have an authorization stamp .... to be accepted by Chinese Embassy!

'Non-crim.' was issued by cops anyway and then who you'll ask for the authenticity stamp? 

 

'Tits' wrote not too long ago: 'China doesn't want English FTs anymore!' and that's it!

 

Look elsewhere! I do!

6 years 34 weeks ago
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icnif77:

I typed while reset was in motion. That's why double!

6 years 34 weeks ago
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hamzaben:

The new regulation is clear about Non native speakers, they are unqualified for Z visa unless they teach their mother tongues.

 

The reason flexibility was allowed these past two years, is because the bureau was well aware that old NN veterans have been granted legal Z visas in the past, now the transition is over ..

 

 

 

 

6 years 34 weeks ago
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icnif77:

Past two years? I am in China since 2009 and since 2010 I worked with Z/WP. I've never known for the 'transition'. I just know there are 300 million English students in China and there are not enough Native English teachers in the whole world to satisfy such Chinese demand. But, good luck with new regulations!

Non-s still qualify for Z if degree was completed in native English country and carry an authenticity stamp. 

Last two words would cost me around 50k RMB or 1/2 of yearly wage since I am a 'tourist' in USA .... 

 

 It comes expensive to teach English in China. 

6 years 34 weeks ago
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icnif77:

I just get a reply from placing agent about 'degree authentication stamp'. Chinese agent can get the file of degree stamped by Uni for about US$360.

I am guessing, I must pay a fee in advance ... and agent's answer can be 'degree is not authentic, i.e. fake'.

Will agent keep US$360?

 

I don't think, I should take that gamble.

 

6 years 34 weeks ago
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6 years 34 weeks ago
 
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Posts: 1072

Shifu

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9000 RMB in Tinajin is just as bad as the other position you were offered of 7000 in Changchun.

 

Tianjin is a much more expensive city to live in, and if you are expected to pay for accommodation as well, the recruiter is just looking to screw you over.

 

just because is recruiter is 'nice' is no basis for believing them.

 

You, if you have worked in China for a number of years, you are an experienced professional, are in demand.

not a FOB back-packer.

minimum you should be offered 12,000 per month + Accommodation + utilities

 

in a Primary school you are not really a teacher, but a parent magnet (and probably there to attract the big-bucks parents).

 

don't be afraid to grill the recruiter on terms and conditions because don't forget you are also interviewing them.

a recruiter can fail your interview by failing/refusing to answer reasonable questions regarding employment pay and conditions, and all of these spelt out clearly in any contract on offer.

 

good luck with your search, you will find a place you are happy with, because the last thing you want is the nagging feeling that you are being screwed over hanging over you all the time.

 

wink

 

PulSartre:

Blondie, thank you  very much indeed for your input on that. Since I read it I was thinking about it.

 

I did ask the questions in the way I hoped to get confirmations about the minimum amount you mentioned already in your answer. It's this kind of message that encourages me to really ask for what I ought to. Nevertheless, when the offer was on the table, I realized how little it is, although I did not dare to expose it out of embarrassment and even shame for how obviously it's expected to get hooked with such an offer. 

 

I guess because I am a bit desperate to get that job and want this much to find it, switched between various contractors who already post their offers with L Visas offers for NNEs teachers whereas to Native ones, in the same offers they offer the Z Visa, I realize I have to get what less damaging and shameless might be and deal with the one who at least ensures the Z Visa. After all, it's about of who gives you the most out of the little a NNE teacher can get in the light of the new rules in China. 

 

 

Your answers speaks volume. Because I cannot believe myself when I get this sort of offers, I turn asking on this forum about something it seems crystal clear. Yet it's made to look shady because recruiters can do it. Double checking with you folks on this forum it's so I can be sure that I am not pretentious at all, nor that my criteria to determine the value of an offer is this outdated. 

 

Your answer comes to confirm at least my suspicion and it gives me the courage to actually ask for what I should be offered. Certainly I end up interviewing the interviewer and have no problem when the recruiter fails to answer the right answers to dismiss any further deal but look elsewhere. I also tend to gather hope unlike the hope that the offer has something good in store I may enjoy.

 

I will come back later with details following the receipt of the contract. Nothing is signed and thanks to this answers and other's on that matter, I will not accept it.

 

Thank you very much.  

 

 

 

 

6 years 34 weeks ago
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6 years 34 weeks ago
 
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I don't know if it matters to you but when they say 17 hours a week you might find that your first class is at 8am then the next class is at 1pm and another at the end of the day meaning you can't really do much in your spare time and you're basically sitting in the office all day bored.

PulSartre:

Hi Stiggs. This far I understand it will be split between mornings and afternoons; that I will end the day very early in the pm and that the duration of a teaching hour is 45 minutes. I will certainly inquire on that matter again. Thank you for bringing it up to me. 

6 years 34 weeks ago
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PulSartre:

An update on that matter is that the contract states:

"Party B shall teach about 17 to 25 hours per week,each lesson 45 minutes"

 

Suddenly it changed. 

6 years 34 weeks ago
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Stiggs:

That would be a red flag but maybe not a deal breaker. If you haven't already I would ask for contact details of other teachers there ( if there are any) and ask them how they find it.

 

Do you have other options you're looking at? I know it's difficult as a non- native speaker...

 

 

6 years 34 weeks ago
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PulSartre:

Hi Stiggs, 

 

other options seem to be in store, but only chit chat for now. Tomorrow I will have more data about the offer. Thank you for your suggestion. 

6 years 34 weeks ago
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These offers you're getting and questioning whether they're enough. In order to properly answer that Question where are you from? Do you have a degree (BA/BS or higher)? No one can truly answer your question unless you provide those answers. 

PulSartre:

And who's asking, if I may?

6 years 34 weeks ago
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Englteachted:

If you're a non native then you're gonna get those types of offers. If you don't have a degree then you're gonna get those types of offers. Deal with it.

6 years 34 weeks ago
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Shifu

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information i got from an admin in a Chinese University.

each FT is budgeted to cost a particular amount per month (a few years ago this would have been 20,000 RMB per month)

it is then up to whoever is doing the actual recruiting to maximise their profit by screwing down the actual salary on offer to the FT.

 

you have been offered 9,000 RMB?

the recruiter is probably pocketing at least the same every month should you accept this.

 

This is why they love FOB's and dislike experienced professionals who know the score - maximum profit

 

they are soooooo clever, which is why they are quick to  'get offended' when someone dares to probe and clarify further

 

you being a NN means that it is an opportunity to increase their profit by feeling forced to accept poorer work terms and conditions.

 

Forewarned is forearmed sad

PulSartre:

Forewarned indeed. I am an experienced teacher of English and qualified in Sciences of Educations, but those come closed to nothing because of my NNE background. SO I understand what's at stake and that I am dealing already with this kind of sharks. Will be back with further news. THank you. 

6 years 34 weeks ago
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6 years 34 weeks ago
 
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Well, I told you from the start you're not qualified so the offers suit you

PulSartre:

As always, your answers are helpful. It provides with the needed amount of skepticism needed to counter balance any enthusiasm and set you fit on the ground ahead any decision. Thanks. 

6 years 34 weeks ago
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1. You'll never get legal working permit/Z visa as Non in any of the T-1 cities;

2. You might have slight chance if you BA was completed in Native English speaking country and you have an authorization stamp from Uni on the degree.

3. As I understand, guanxi doesn't work anymore because School's application for FT's Working permit must/can be submitted to SAFEA only online.

 

PulSartre:

Well, let's be optimistic too. We never know, unless we try it, although ti has to be harder today for the non-native teachers of English. Thank you icniff. 

6 years 34 weeks ago
Report Abuse

Englteachted:

Thank you , for bringing reality all the other posters seem to have no clue who they're dealing with here

6 years 34 weeks ago
Report Abuse

icnif77:

No. 1 is usual stuff out of my own experience. Not that I really long for T1 city, but always when I submitted application/CV it was loads of run around and I've never got job in T1 city in China. Dalian was the biggest city in China I had WP as Non.

2. & 3. I learned in last few months while I was trying to secure RP extension with new employer. I had to exit China on June 22nd and while I am reading Dave's teachers Board, I see that it will be impossible to secure new Z for myself.

Just see what teachers from USA have to go through to qualify for Z application. Non-criminal record/cert. must have an authorization stamp .... to be accepted by Chinese Embassy!

'Non-crim.' was issued by cops anyway and then who you'll ask for the authenticity stamp? 

 

'Tits' wrote not too long ago: 'China doesn't want English FTs anymore!' and that's it!

 

Look elsewhere! I do!

6 years 34 weeks ago
Report Abuse

icnif77:

I typed while reset was in motion. That's why double!

6 years 34 weeks ago
Report Abuse

hamzaben:

The new regulation is clear about Non native speakers, they are unqualified for Z visa unless they teach their mother tongues.

 

The reason flexibility was allowed these past two years, is because the bureau was well aware that old NN veterans have been granted legal Z visas in the past, now the transition is over ..

 

 

 

 

6 years 34 weeks ago
Report Abuse

icnif77:

Past two years? I am in China since 2009 and since 2010 I worked with Z/WP. I've never known for the 'transition'. I just know there are 300 million English students in China and there are not enough Native English teachers in the whole world to satisfy such Chinese demand. But, good luck with new regulations!

Non-s still qualify for Z if degree was completed in native English country and carry an authenticity stamp. 

Last two words would cost me around 50k RMB or 1/2 of yearly wage since I am a 'tourist' in USA .... 

 

 It comes expensive to teach English in China. 

6 years 34 weeks ago
Report Abuse

icnif77:

I just get a reply from placing agent about 'degree authentication stamp'. Chinese agent can get the file of degree stamped by Uni for about US$360.

I am guessing, I must pay a fee in advance ... and agent's answer can be 'degree is not authentic, i.e. fake'.

Will agent keep US$360?

 

I don't think, I should take that gamble.

 

6 years 34 weeks ago
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6 years 34 weeks ago
 
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Short answer would be go for it if you are ok with the salary and want to be in that specific city.

 

However, I want to add up to the excellent inputs folks already gave you the following :

 

1. Recruiters are in fact clever (Maybe not tricky...that's another topic).

Chinese employers will always be nice to you in the beginning, this is the way they are. But as far as I was concerned, in my previous experiences, i found no correlation between the level of kindness of the boss and the level of pay/benefits/work conditions.... at the end of the day, a job salary is a negotiation that you have to win.

 

2. Always ask them to give you an example of a  working week, that will give you an exact  idea about how your workload will be....And expect to take part in extra curriculum activities which may occur from time to time (children's day, open day, blabla day...etc).

 

3. You can keep shopping around. There are many schools that are looking for teachers and they'll offer you a better salary + benefits. It is unlikely that a school wont offer you accommodation, unless maybe if they are paying a high salary (13-20 k range)

 

4. Living in a foreign country is very different from your home country, which means you need to be prepared for any circumstances that can happen or for the many wonder of the expat life lool...which mean you need MONEY.. .. pure pink bills and plenty of them. What I want to say, here, is that you must absolutely negotiate your salary to your favor and don't compromise for less. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PulSartre:

Hamzaben, thank you for this useful insight. I believe I have learnt a bit of this from everything I was told thus far and with your making a point I can see why it is important to negotiate whether the recruiter is nice, nicer or nicest. 

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Answer of the DayMORE >>
A:  "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "S
A: "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "Shenzhen agent can connect you with an employer, who's authorized to hire waigouren ... and can sponsor Z visa." It's not like every 10th person you meet in Shenzhen's hood can sponsor work visa ...  The only way to change from student to labourer visa is just a regular way by: 1. Finding an employer, who'll apply for an Invitation letter; 2. Exit China and apply for Z visa in your home country's Chinese embassy; 3. Enter China in 30-days after Z visa was stamped into your travelling instrument ...As I am aware, you won't be able to switch to Working permit by remaining in China....,so make ready for a return to your home .... -- icnif77