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Posts: 256

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Q: Tutoring IELTS students who have already graduated college in China

So my girlfriend is having trouble tutoring IELTS students who have already graduated college in China.
Typically, they're rich students who are about 23-26 years old and haven't gotten a job yet.
They've recently graduating college in China.
These students really want to go abroad, but their band averages between 1-3 when they come to her.

She would teach them a sentence, but they could only remember the last word...and when she tried using writing as kinetic reinforcement for speaking, they asked her to spell every single word, even the word "word" itself...
When she back-tracked to single word practice with them, they still couldn't remember the word "idea" after repeating it 10 times and then asked to put it in an already previously re-reviewed sentence.

My question is if these parents have already paid (after insisting upon it) and refuse to allow the students to go through a remedial course or perhaps even TOEFL Junior, what else can she do to get these "kids" some results?
My other question is, is this normal?!

I don't mean to be mean, but our grade 6 students are using "enthusiastic" with a present perfect continuous sentence, and it only takes 2-3 times practicing it to get them flowing...
If the grade 6 students can do this just fine then....
It baffles me to see this problem happen with college graduates, considering their mental capacity should at least be high enough for basic language acquisition.

7 years 5 weeks ago in  Teaching & Learning - China

 
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Posts: 827

Shifu

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I have had a couple students like that. Rich parents. The kids are just too lazy too try. They are more interested in making sure they don't lose face and flaunting their parents wealth. They WILL get to North America. The money thing works on both sides of the ocean. Private schools in the west will gladly take the money. They are not likely to get into a well known college, but they will get here. How long they survive in the west is another thing. The Chinese community is large in Canada and the US. Many other comments hit the nail on the head. Everyone in China likes to blame the teacher. I like to blame the parents for the most part because they are not in tune to their child's interests.

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7 years 4 weeks ago
 
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Posts: 5321

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RE your question.. I've seen that mentality so often before,and had them in my classes.The people who insist on paying for the 'best' course or class regardless of how ill suited their spoiled useless offspring are for that class.

 

They can't go to the lower level class where they belong and might actually do well because....face.

In their mind paying for it equals instant (given to them) results, probably because that's how the kid got through school so far. They will never understand that an IELTS test doesn't work that way, you actually do need to show some English ability.

 

I don't think there is much you can do to help those kids but you can cover your own ass. Make sure everyone knows how ill suited they are for that class, if possible have the parents or whoever sit in on the class and make sure to ask them questions,so that when little emperor still can't tell you his name and what he likes to do in his free time after six months you can at least say I told you so when the parents try to blame you, the teacher.

 

And that does happen... my idiot offspring who can't write his own English name can't pass his IELTS test after six whole months, it's OBVIOUSLY the teacher's fault.

 

 

Zethe:

You hit the nail on the head man...I wasn't trying to say it because I'm sure it happens everywhere...but I'm not sure what WE as teachers can do about it...the parents complain but in the end always end up back in her class because she's the most qualified there. As for me, I refuse their classes (my schedule is full anyway), but I wish I could help her more.

7 years 4 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

I had a colleague who was given the 'special' preparation class to do for a private English group. They were quite capable in their own field (well, they weren't literally mentally retarded). His only goal was to teach to a really basic test.

 

After 1 year of this "teaching to the incredibly basic test", he gives the final exam (to one in particular).

 

it's all being recorded...

 

"Hello - what is your name?"

 

"什么?"what's your name" 什么意思?“

7 years 4 weeks ago
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philbravery:

Sadly its not confined to IELTS or China. there seems to be a growing trend to pass everyone . I have failed students and had it overturned by higher up because it doesn't look good for the company. I can't count the number of times I've written attended but did not participate on course reports. I don't even bother trying to do classes anymore

7 years 4 weeks ago
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ambivalentmace:

yes, phil, in university, never allowed to score anyone below 60, in training schools never below good, average was not allowed, never mind the lazy below average students. I used to laugh at the training school giving me crap about not playing enough games but when renewal came around, the oldest foreigner, that would be me, had the highest retention rate, screw the young farts, lol.

7 years 4 weeks ago
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Zethe:

Adding to that, it's almost guaranteed some of the students we gave a fail who still end up abroad hired a "gunman" to take the test for them.

7 years 4 weeks ago
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7 years 5 weeks ago
 
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Emperor

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I know that money is important - but so is reputation.

 

I don't even bother with kids like that (3 is pretty difficult to achieve, you know!!! You have to be shockingly bad to get that low! The lowest score I gave when I was examining was about 2.5, and that was to older people (30's or older) who hadn't just come out of college (with CET4), and hadn't gone to any classes.) I have NO problem with such students - I HATE trying with kids who think the roads should be paved with gold just for them!

 

I know they can be a great source of continuous income (which is why schools don't want to actually employ well-trained, knowledgeable teachers!!!) - but they're a drain on your time and resources, and do zero for your reputation. You'd be much better dropping them, and only getting students who can actually improve, and get the results (score) they want/need... so then, you can charge more later!

Zethe:

Thank you for your input.
We're actually at that crossroads where we're either trying to branch out into selling curriculum and materials, TESOL training programs for other teachers, and anything else to fill in our time.

She's been at it for 3 years and building rapport...luckily she has a great track record with students but the number of returning students aren't enough compared to the new ones given to her.

The employers are gracious and know the deal, but it's getting very stressful dealing with these particular students and their parents in general.

7 years 4 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

Training programs for other teachers isn't likely to be the big hit you may think it should be... schools in China aren't interested in actual education... only money!!

 

I once went to XDF to ask for a job, telling them that I was an IELTS examiner (one of only about 5 in the city!!!), and I wanted to teach their students to improve their scores. The only question I was asked "Can we use that in marketing?"

 

"No, BC won't let you".

 

"Oh, well, no, not interested then".

7 years 4 weeks ago
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ambivalentmace:

yes, same here, "can we use your name for marketing', same exact phrase in JInan XDF.

7 years 4 weeks ago
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7 years 4 weeks ago
 
Posts: 827

Shifu

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I have had a couple students like that. Rich parents. The kids are just too lazy too try. They are more interested in making sure they don't lose face and flaunting their parents wealth. They WILL get to North America. The money thing works on both sides of the ocean. Private schools in the west will gladly take the money. They are not likely to get into a well known college, but they will get here. How long they survive in the west is another thing. The Chinese community is large in Canada and the US. Many other comments hit the nail on the head. Everyone in China likes to blame the teacher. I like to blame the parents for the most part because they are not in tune to their child's interests.

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7 years 4 weeks ago
 
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Lazy it is, they absolutely refuse to think and make an effort. I don't teach them also

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7 years 4 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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many chinese language students (and their parents) seem to think that their presence alone in a classroom will mean that they don't have to work or practice in order to become proficient in English. It as if they will magically absorb english if all the teacher does is speak - no effort required on their part.

Some students i have encountered get upset when i make it clear i expect them to work both in class and outside on their own.

 

whatever about children not understanding the necessity of practice practice practice, i have no time for adults who sit back and do nothing in a class (and less outside), yet expect miracles to happen.

 

When learning a musical instrument, daily practice is essential for mastery.

A music teacher does not stand over their pupil outside the class-room to check that the practice is being done: it is a given that the student will put in the time on their own.

learning a different language is no different.

so if the adult student does not practice in his/her own time yet expects to become proficient - i would tell them to take a hike and stop wasting my time as all they probably want is their hand held like a child.

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7 years 4 weeks ago
 
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The worse problem is trying to get my students and parents not to waste their money on IELTS schools.

 

I had a student take the test this weekend and he is not in class with me and is at some training school.

 

So I send him him an email reminding him that training schools don't keep up and teach new topics and that 4 new topics are on Part 1 starting in January, watches, dreams, mirrors, robots. four new topics that have not been on the test before and want be in any old IELTS study books, like chocolate was new topic in september.

 

so he gets mirrors and dreams on his test and he and his parents are mad at me because i warned him and i was right.

 

some days you just shake your head and pour another scotch, think i will have a godfather drink today, if i can find some real amaretto.

Shining_brow:

Parents!

 

My second bane of my life in China (after marketing departments....).

 

They ALWAYS know better than you... even though you're the one with the qualifications and experience!

7 years 4 weeks ago
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We get in (and stay in) teaching for the good students.

 

We get out because of the bad ones.... (oh, and usually because the school is abusing our knowledge to make a ton of money, while paying us a pittance!)

ambivalentmace:

yes, I remember an Ielts school i worked at once that wanted me not to teach vocabulary because they did not want anyone to get a 6 on speaking, so they would pay and take the course again.

 

The worst one was the school that wanted me to score them a half a point below their ability, say a 5, when they really are a 5.5, so when they get the 5.5, they could brag to the parents how much they helped improve them. I actually caught a school lowering my scores once before the students saw them so they would show improvement on the real test.

7 years 4 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

That also helps for the 'deal' that students enter into.... "You pay X amount, and we will guarantee you can achieve 5.5! You take as many classes as you need...". Yeah, downgrade their score, so when they get that 5.5, they're happy (and think you're a miracle worker).

 

I need to remember this tactic when I give my lectures... that other schools do that, but our never will!!!!

 

That school doesn't really need to bother too much with vocab.... most students are going to suck in the writing cos they're taught the most CRAP non-academic writing style!!!

7 years 4 weeks ago
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Quick add to this topic... I did a research project for my master's last year... "What do Chinese IELTS teachers know about the Writing Task 2?" I got teachers from an IELTS training school, and all the teachers were IELTS writing teachers, with some experience (up to 7 years worth!)

 

I gave them 12 papers to grade (requesting individual criteria, and reasons for the score). All papers came from Cambridge ESOL (ie, REAL scores... not made up).

 

All teachers had at least 2 years teaching experience... most about 3-4 years experience teaching IELTS writing.

 

On average, they were about 1.5 bands inaccurate in their scoring (meaning, they're grading AT LEAST 1  criteria at 2 bands wrong (ie, grading at a 4 instead of a 6, etc))..  Often, scores were 2 bands or more wrong...

 

To be 1.5 bands wrong is terrible!

 

One teacher (of the 3-4 years experience) graded a band 7 at 3.5!!!!! And, NOT ONE teacher identified correctly a band 7 paper (and, there were THREE of them in the 12 papers!!!)

 

One other thing... experience in teaching (IELTS, writing, or otherwise), nor qualification, correlated (significantly) to scoring ability!!!

Zethe:

Thankfully, my girlfriend is very knowledgeable on the subject.
She's one of the few Chinese teachers that I would call qualified...and she's certainly frustrated with the incompetence of her colleagues (as all of their terrible students want her as well)

7 years 4 weeks ago
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Zethe:

On another note, it's a good thing she went freelance with it and rents out places instead of taking students from centers.
"Those centers are toxic and the people are morons", her words.

7 years 4 weeks ago
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Yes...its very normal.
We have "kids" wanting to do IELTS who are the least able students you could ever meet, But the family has MONEY and that somehow entitles them to go to Ivy League schools.

IELTS training schools such as XDF and NC seem to be running a cute little scam in China and I'm sure Cambridge ESOL knows about it. Why should they care? Its more money to them.

The system is like this I believe.

IELTS writing questions are used over a few years. The schools send an able teacher to do the test, they get a respectable score.
The answers they wrote are remembered and reproduced in the centre.
Then the centre, will try to predict what questions will come around this time. 
The students are given 3 or 4 specimen answers in the desired band to MEMORISE!

When the student attends the test, fingers crossed....one of the memorized questions will pop up........Hey presto!, the student vomits up the standard answer and BINGO!

There's your score in the bag.

The only thing needed is to pass the test, any actual ability in English is not required.
When they actually land in the west, they usually come unstuck.

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7 years 3 weeks ago
 
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