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Q: Universal healthcare - yea or nay?

I'm sure this has been argued on here before, but what the hell....

 

I'm all for it.

 

I believe it is the government's responsibility to ensure that all citizens have access to low-cost basic healthcare, taken from the taxes we pay. We should have the right to see a GP when needed, and that hospital care is, for the most part, free.

 

I like that our medicines are subsidised by the government, as that helps keep costs down (and hopefully stops pharmaceutical companies from  being even more powerful and richer than they already are).

 

I also think that private health insurance can be used as a way to have health care provided by more luxurious private hospitals, and faster treatment for non-emergency issues.

 

I would add to the above that all medical students (including doctors and nurses) are required to intern in public hospitals for X years, including being sent to remote or regional locations as necessary - this is especially the case where higher education (ie, university) is wholly or partly funded by the state (as in many countries).

 

This responsibility is no less important than other government responsibilities such as ensuring utilities are provided, infrastructure, communications, law and order, and for me - education (in some form*) at least to year 10.

 

Just as the above list benefits the country as a whole, and increases its wealth, so too does healthcare, as sick people are unable to contribute to society.

 

Virtually ALL western developed countries have universal health care, and while there are certainly flaws that need to be addressed (such as waiting times), in general the system words extremely well. The one country that infamously does not have universal health care is the one country that the rest of the world laughs at its political system (and leaders), and is shocked at its military spending... (and, coincidentally, is the one country that has never head a female head of state!)

 

Your thoughts???

2 years 44 weeks ago in  Health & Safety - China

 
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I am all in for the universal healthcare and I think it's a blatant lie of neoliberals when they claim that offering basic healthcare will ruin the economy.How come so many countries in Europe are able to offer quality and often free medical healthcare and avoid the Armageddon? 

 

The only thing is that such arrangements require properly working tax system for the whole society, not simple targeting of the middle class and some sort of social agreement where proprietors not only want to milk the economy, but share something with the rest. And I can't understand it when even post-Soviet European countries can afford the universal and free/reasonably priced healthcare and the US can't.

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2 years 44 weeks ago
 
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Never had a female head of state, interesting, how many developed countries other than America have had a black head of state when blacks only represent 13 percent of the population in America. Perhaps you can give Obummmer British citizenship and elect him Prime Minister, I'm sure it will work out fine.I'm sure the political party he joins will love him for all his good support.https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/bare-ruined-choirs/

 

Switzerland has the best health coverage for citizens and it works better than any other developed country. The problem is government has a natural inclination to get bigger and hold more power and control its citizens more and the relationship with your doctor be damned. I don't know how you make people feel safe and have government in the doctors office with you and the doctor.

 

The other question is how much should a citizen pay for healthcare. 15 percent of everything you make for your whole life for free care. Is that enough? Who decides how much? Why do they get to make the decision? Do they have a medical and economic background?

 

If you can't control costs, then governments use the power to make you quit smoking, tell you what to eat and some do this now. Fine, how about 10 years from now, you can cant have that baby, we are going to kill it because your genetic matrix shows that you offspring will have these costly ailments and we dont want to pay for that, use the sperm bank and get a better (father) sample. This is not as far off as people think.

Do you trust your government to consider your personal lifestyle is your business or will they demand you change it?

 

Should government instead guarantee a minimum of care without getting involved in everything in medicine that they may not understand , how much, pregnancy, broken bones, annual physicals, dental care only and everything else goes under private care. insurance.

 

All basic rights or needs depending on your view sound great, but the costs and results are never analyzed until the damage is done, because the intention was noble and just and its the right thing to do. Perhaps the countries that implemented these programs should have considered the unintended consequences a little more before the implementation.

 

If Europe wants to spend as much on defense as America so we use our military budget for healthcare and not supporting bases in Italy, Germany, and Turkey, and others, sounds good, maybe a few people will change their mind.

 

pre existing conditions is a severe headache in insurance, some people are just born screwed up, genetics will probably eliminate this problem in a generation or two, but right now this cost is the biggest argument in the debate.

 

I have free medical if I can make it to France for treatment, but France takes 57 percent of my military retirement for free education and healthcare, not happy with that, Obum care takes almost 20 percent of your salary for some middle class families while taking nothing if I just be a poor loser and live on welfare. I don't know how you find a fair system and trust the people not to keep taking more money or cutting what they provide and or make you wait longer to see a doctor hoping you die in the interim.

 

Its a hopeless problem with no good solutions except maybe move to Switzerland. My personal belief is all governments encourage and pay for medical school for anybody qualified and flood the world with doctors so supply and demand will bring down the costs. Stealing doctors from poor countries because we are quote civilized seems to me to be very rude behavior by the elites who want the rest of the world to evolve. makes our actions look hypocritical against the talk of uplifting the oppressed.

 

 

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2 years 44 weeks ago
 
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I am all in for the universal healthcare and I think it's a blatant lie of neoliberals when they claim that offering basic healthcare will ruin the economy.How come so many countries in Europe are able to offer quality and often free medical healthcare and avoid the Armageddon? 

 

The only thing is that such arrangements require properly working tax system for the whole society, not simple targeting of the middle class and some sort of social agreement where proprietors not only want to milk the economy, but share something with the rest. And I can't understand it when even post-Soviet European countries can afford the universal and free/reasonably priced healthcare and the US can't.

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2 years 44 weeks ago
 
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I'm for it.

 

I think not providing it in some form not only is morally wrong, but economically unwise. If you look at the costs and the way they can either lead to bankruptcy or completely wipe out the purchasing power of a lower income family you can see that it is leaving economic growth and more productive consumption on the table.

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2 years 44 weeks ago
 
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I'm for it to an extent. If someone smokes then I don't want to pay for them making stupid choices. The same thing goes for people who eat cake three meals a day and think that gravy is a beverage.

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2 years 44 weeks ago
 
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The medical industry should not be privatized. The governments job is to be the structure for society so that mankind can progress forward efficiently,  avoiding disaster. You know what the biggest roadblock to world peace is, private military contractors. You know what the biggest obstacle to a really healthy populace, private drug companies, hospitals, insurance companies and the private agricultural  industry! America is one of the least healthy developed countries and we have a serious prescription drug abuse problem. I love talking to idiots who complain about greedy doctors not being trustworthy but then they are 100% against de-privatizing the industry for the simple reason that it's a socialist ideal. 

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2 years 44 weeks ago
 
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I would pay in America 10 to 15 percent of my wages to a limit of 100,000 dollars for univeral medical care, but if it hit 16 percent, forget it, I can go to Panama to see a doctor or mexico to see a dentist.

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2 years 44 weeks ago
 
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Yes from me of course. Mao promised it but did not deliver. Shame on him.

Perhaps if he had delivered it, with medical staff working to the Hippocratic oath, as they do in Europe, there would have been a few tens of millions of people survived his experiments.

Same thing as we see in the USA today. The republicans don't want to invest in the health of the poor people. They probably vote democrat after all.

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2 years 44 weeks ago
 
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PingAn Health cost Y24,000 for us if we are not chinese, when can we get low cost!

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2 years 44 weeks ago
 
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"I believe it is the government's responsibility to ensure that all citizens have access to low-cost basic healthcare."

If you're going about it with the mindset of a child, you're not going to understand how it works for adults.

 

As for me, I believe every time I see the government assume they have a responsibility of anything towards me, that mostly means I'm ending up paying for yet another set of overpriced shit I don't need/want and if I'm lucky I don't see a freedom confiscated in the process.

 

Coming from one of the countries with the most bloated healthcare system in the world, here's what it looks like:

- twice as expensive as it should and as I pay as an expatriate for the same  thing.

- largely financed by debt anyway. My daughter is paying for it.

- incomprehensible, ever changing reimbursement rates of everything because despite being confiscated from salaries AND financed by debt there's still no money since unaccountable morons in charge would buy sand in the desert and water on the seas.

- private complimentary insurances required on top anyway.

- overall costs of healthcare inflated.

- wait for everything.

- quality of service maintained solely due to the personnel's patience and benevolence.

- no oversight over who is eligible. Anyone is welcome to grow the waiting lines including illegals.

- no reward in taking care of oneself and actually having your shit together, working out and stuff since all your bad habits are covered.

- progressist fantasies being introduced little by little like sex changing surgeries.

 

So yeah, no thanks. I'm not against something minimal and I'm not in favor of letting people die on the streets, but I'd rather have something administrated on a local level so as to best suit the needs of people who may actually need it, while still mostly relying on the private sector for the rest as I do believe governments cannot be trusted in the long run with these things.

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2 years 44 weeks ago
 
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2 years 38 weeks ago
 
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I agree that it is the responsibility of an elected government to ensure that its citizens can live decently and in good health, otherwise why were they elected in the first place?

 

As for non-elected governments, it's a different story.

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2 years 38 weeks ago
 
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This really depends on where you stand, the circumstances and the proper enforcement. 

 

For example - 

 

In Canada, there are many people that abuse this system. Some people make false medical claims for anything you can name as a disease. when In actuality many of these claims are lies or self-inflicted for the purpose of collecting disability or even just attention grabbing (yes , many go to the hospital for basically no reason) in a hospital wasting time and slowing down the queue. 

 

Now should you have to pay for these people? No. It angers the honest people and I feel that a universal healthcare system should not be so easily abused. Why should I have to pay taxes while being perfectly healthy... only to find out that others are obviously abusing the system with no punishment. Because I should care for my fellow man? There is a difference between caring and being played as a fool. 

 

So, to that I say... no, there should not be a universal healthcare system unless it is properly monitored and enhanced beyond what I have seen today.  

 

 

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2 years 38 weeks ago
 
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Universal health care is one of those things that REALLY needs to be run intelligently to work well.

 

I'm basically a supporter of the idea, both from a moral and bottom line standpoint that the economy as a whole suffers from medical expenses being the #1 cause of personal bankruptcy. But then in practice it becomes an inefficient mess every time. 

 

I think to make it work you need really very sophisticated financial minds designing a system of means testing, income thresholds (properly weighed against local costs of living) and very severe penalties for abusing it. 

 

And as well people of strong constitution who are able to say "sorry you aren't eligible to use this"

 

It's kinda like what's going on in Europe right now, the problem with having easy immigration and a strong social net is that you create an incentive for people who just want the social safety net and eventually the system breaks down because the ratio of people paying in to people drawing on it gets too low. 

 

You can want to be compassionate, but the pie is only so big.

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2 years 38 weeks ago
 
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Long ago I would be for it without question. In essence I'm still for it and I don't think sick people should be denied care. However people should be responsible for their own choices and it is unfair to expect others to pay for your bad choices when it results in need for medical intervention.

I had an uncle by marriage. He is now dead. He drank, smoked and had a terrible diet. He had a massive heart attack and went on to receive quadruple bypass heart surgery that cost the tax-payer tens of thousands of dollars. After the surgery he continued on with his unhealthy lifestyle with an unabated hunger for bacon and dripping sandwiches. He died about 18 months after the surgery from another massive heart attack. In my opinion it was a huge waste of money and was some very selfish behaviour.

There is only so much money to go around. It's everybody's right to eat, smoke and drink what they want but to expect other people to pay for your shitty decisions is irresponsible.

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2 years 38 weeks ago
 
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http://reason.com/blog/2017/01/27/what-happens-when-doctors-only-take-cash

 

Finally something that works and makes sense, and a cheap place to live also.

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2 years 33 weeks ago
 
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http://thefederalist.com/2017/06/29/blue-collar-middle-class-truck-drivers-rant-americas-health-care-mess/

 

the number one middle class job in america in 29 states is a truck driver and this is the great obama healthcare mess, yes, intellectual elites always know what is best for us rednecks.

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2 years 11 weeks ago
 
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Soon it'll be universal basic income. It makes perfect sense to me if most jobs are going to be rendered obsolete by technology.

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2 years 11 weeks ago
 
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Has to be universal healthcare.

 

Everyone pays direct from their wages, at a fixed rate, with the employer making an additional contribution. I honestly don't know anyone in the UK who begrudges paying it. It's just  something that anyone who works more than part time pays. The more you earn, the more is deducted.

 

Government has a department to run the hospitals. If they do a bad job, kick them out at the next election.  It would be a very brave party in the UK that went into an election with no plan to improve the NHS. The electorate hold them to account ( But I have to admit, the last election let the tories back in... not good for the NHS, but it was reported that the DUP wanted an extra 2 billion quid for the NI NHS.).

 

Get sick go to hospital. Get treated. Leave the hospital. No money.

 

Indeed, it is one of the great things about universal health care that preventative medicine becomes more important than cures. If the health minister is worried about smoking related disease, he/she is in the cabinet. They have the power to restrict cigarettes/ increase tax/ educate/ ban smoking in bars etc.

 

Drug prices too high... that becomes Governments problem as they are the one paying for it. So they do deals with the drug companies to produce low cost generics, maybe as part of a deal for a research grant..

 

Want extra cover?  No problem. get private insurance. You still need to pay the basic national insurance contributions, nut you can still pay a private company who might have their own hospital. But more often than not, you will be in a national health service hospital, being cared for by national health service medics. The insurance company have to reimburse the NHS, while the doctors are free to charge a higher rate. It's up to them who they work for..

 

It's a system that works.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 years 11 weeks ago
 
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http://www.dcstatesman.com/socialized-medicine-kills-canadian-teen/

 

Let's hear a cheer for Canada's great health insurance.

 

government care is rationed care, somebody wins, somebody loses, somebody dies, and no one really cares because it's the right thing to do.

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2 years 10 weeks ago
 
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https://www.toddstarnes.com/column/what-kind-of-a-nation-would-kill-a-baby-in-his-mothers-arms

 

do no harm, first rule of medicine, except when government is your GOD.

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2 years 10 weeks ago
 
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2 years 8 weeks ago
 
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1 year 20 weeks ago
 
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This is one thing we can learn from China. Instead of a pharmaceutical industry milking people for profits, and doctors handing out pills and mickeymoused diagnoses with impunity, we should have an affordable medical testing industry, and doctors who defer to testing before pulling BS out of their backsides, because they are not fully protected from consequences when they get it wrong.

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1 year 20 weeks ago
 
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