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Q: is the wages for foreigner here higher than the west?
is the wages for foreigner here higher than the west?
I believe that, by applying this equation to your question, nothing will be answered.
What do you mean? The average wage? Do you mean western natives or foreigners living in the west?
I think most foreign workers come to China to earn a salary, not a wage.
Many western countries have a minimum wage set by Government. But this tends to be below "living wage". There are loads of news stories about this in the west. In the US for example, Walmart have announced they aim to pay the living wage rather than the minimum wage. Of course, they have announced this just before the minimum wage is expected to be increased. So, to answer your question, it`s possible to be paid Government set minimum wage in the west but to actually be below the official Government poverty level. The Governments tend to make up the difference.
No. No they re not. Living expenses are are a lot cheaper though. I earned more in my part time job 20 hours working in a hospital kitchen, when I was a student £1200/12000 rmb a month than I did as a full time teacher in China 10000 rmb a month. I don't think you come to China for the money, not as an ESL teacher anyway. You come for the experience
laowaigentleman:
I worked in a hospital kitchen during my last year of study in 08 and got about 11,000 per month after tax. Rent is much higher where I am from and don't get me started on power and internet costs in NZ. Regardless I was definitely able to save in excess of 20% of the money.
lcrate:
Was there a specific reason you were working full-time for 10,000 RMB per month? It seems that for full time (35-40+ weekly hours of work), the vast majority of (ESL) positions pay well more than 10,000 RMB per month, even in the outskirts.
dokken:
25 teaching hours plus 10 hours preparation time. 25 teaching hours is full time is it not? The job was in a small city. Outside of the big cities pretty much standard salary.
I believe that, by applying this equation to your question, nothing will be answered.
No. Slavery has been outlawed in the West for a very long time...
It depends on the job, it depends on what you look at. Two examples
University lecturer, public education, all tax deduced
France => 9000/RMB months + top notch welfare, China => 5000/RMB months, close to no welfare
IT Engineer, all tax deduced
France => 20000 to 40000/RMB month + top notch welfare, China 7000 to 20000/RMB month, close to no welfare
In France, the income *before* tax is twice what is *after* tax, roughly. You then pay land tax. You have access to free schooling, very cheap healthcare. It's expensive to employ people, so companies tend to be understaffed. Income is higher, but jobs are hard to find. Cost of life is higher, consider yourself lucky if you can save 20% of your monthly income.
In China, you pay less tax, it's cheaper to employ people, but the welfare is non-existent compared to what you would get elsewhere. To be sick, invest for your old days... But hey, it's easier to find a job. Having a life with your job is possible for a very limited definition of "having a life", but you can save 70% of your income.
Many people around the world are talking in the terms of salary comparison. However it very rarely gives any idea about the real situation in these two places people want to compare.
It's connected with two main factors:
1, The life style in these places may not be comparable (plus each person lifestyle may differ too )
2. The costs of living may not be proportionally comparable
It's actually not an easy task to compare two countries and probably the most efficient way is to forget about countries and rather concentrate on the concerned individual and compare the situation with respect to the person's lifestyle.
What I mean is that in case you do not go to the bars so you may not care what the drink costs, if you do not eat meat so the prices of meat are irrelevant for you, if you have no children so the price (or even availability) of the good education does not effect you etc.
I would say that for an average, younger, foreigner who does not frequent night clubs too much the potential savings are bigger in China than in majority of the European countries. It changes then with the age and when you reach the top level - then you are still much better off in Europe in comparison to China (with certain exception of course - if your company desperately needs you in China so they also pay for that).
Nevertheless this all neglects the non-monetary aspects like environment etc. These factors may, based on individual preference, influence the decision to either site
dongbeiren:
Good points - a person's lifestyle greatly impacts the relative cost of living. For example, most foreigners who spend the majority of their money on eating/drinking/traveling say China is incredibly cheap while wealthy Chinese who spend most of their money on houses/cars/foreign made luxury goods talk about how expensive China is and how cheap western countries are. For me, I prefer to do rather than to have so China is quite cheap but for the shopper China can be insanely expensive.
i dont know is salaries higher in new york city or tuson arizonia stupid azz question
In Australia even 21 year old Mcdonalds workers get like 47k a year.
I think Minimum wage in Australia is 43k a year. Aroud 250k RMB.
Definitely I would make a lot more money in Australia but I do like working low hours for very above average income here.
Interesting question, there's an easy way to look at it and a tough way to look at it.
If you just look at the direct conversion, then obviously, yes, you'd have to say in the majority of cases, people can earn more by staying at home. But if you think about the purchasing power and saving potential of money earned from living in China; well, then it's much more difficult.
I'll take my case: in China, MrA and I were on a pretty good financial deal, roughly 11-12,000 a month each with a free (if occasionally shitty) apartment provided. If we really created and really stuck to a savings plan, we could have easily saved 15,000RMB+ a month. At the current conversion, that's about $3,000 Aussie dollars (although, I must point out that our dollar was higher when we were in China). Actually we didn't focus on money that much as we saved about $2,000 a month.
Here in Sydney we both earn significantly more than that if you convert directly - half again for me and roughly double for him, and these are about average wages for young people. So the logical assumption is that living here makes much more financial sense, right? Well... here, our rent is $400 a week for a one-bed apartment, $1600 a month. That immediately wipes about half the difference. We also pay a LOT more for other things; ingredients for a basic dinner for two are about $7-8 dollars, a basic restaurant meal $10-15. A beer in a pub is about $7. Overall, I'd say we can probably save a little less.
But, then again, we are living in one of the world's more expensive cities, and not the shitty city we lived in in China. It would probably be more fair to compare Sydney to Shanghai and Urumqi to.... ummm... Mt Isa? Some hellish mining town? But then the pay (but then also expenses) would have been completely different.
Also, final remark: I can't see where the hell the guy above me is pulling this 47k figure from: fast food stores around here are filled with 15 year olds doing after-school work, I highly doubt many of them are 21+ age and working full time. The most recent minimum wage I could find was $16.87 an hour for an adult, with 25% loading for casual employees. $16.87x1.25x40x52 would indeed work out to around 43k, but who the hell does that? Casual labor by definition is not guaranteed, not stable, and not reliable. I don't know any casual worker who is getting MORE than 40 hours EVERY week, if they were they probably wouldn't be getting that casual loading, they'd be permanent. MrA worked in a couple of jobs on a casual (i.e. zero hours) contracts until his permanent residency came in and the people he worked with were getting wildly inconsistent hours, certainly not a neat 40hrs per week. In this situation, China would certainly come out the winner, financially.
sunderlandt:
My sister works at Mcdonalds. I have never had a job that paid less than 22 per hour (after reaching adult wage) and I had some crap jobs. I get my figures from experiences.
Technically the bare minimum wage is 34k a year apparently but I guess the only people who get that might be waitresses, it's so low you can apply for centrelink benefits. I made 16/h when I was 17.
MissA:
And she gets 40+ hours every week and never takes time off? Or she works at a 24-hour joint and gets penalties for shitty hours? That's the only way I can see your figures working out, and I'd fall off my chair in shock if the average age of Maccas workers is over 20 and they were on more than 45k.
sunderlandt:
I am not saying the average age is 20+. Also 21 is adult wage not 20.
The point I clearly made, my sister who works there does make that money.
She works 38 hours and is 23.
The average age of Mcdonalds workers is not the point at all. The point is you can make good money literally anywhere.
I worked somewhere selling towels to old women and got 23 and hour.
The other point was, if you actually make 16 an hour in some cases if not most you can apply for government benefit.
What was your job in Australia? Just curious.
sunderlandt:
Job (Number Reporting) | National Data ( | AU$0 | AU$24K | AU$48K | AU$72K |
|---|
|
|---|
| Total Pay | AU$19,118 - AU$36,250 |
|---|
| AU$24,662 - AU$45,559 |
|---|
| AU$42,348 - AU$69,678 |
|---|
| AU$35,071 - AU$52,178 |
|---|
Keep in mind this scale: left is not adult wage, the right is adult. It is the standards for minimum. Most Mcdonalds pay award wages. This is not specifically for Mcdonalds just fast food workers. You can research it if you want.
MissA:
Nope, I'll accept those figures: fast food worker, roughly 20,000-mid 30s per year according to the figures you put there, that's exactly what I'd expect. As for myself, I'm a teacher and I run a little editing freelance gig as well and my fiancee is a travel agebt, although he's just started that job, and he did the shitty jobs we're discussing here until a few months ago.
Incidentally, though, I'd say that the other place I worked in, Vietnam, is a better bet for the financial/lifestyle balance, especially if you're half of a western couple (which I know is kinda rare on this forum, but anyhoo...).
Unless you have some serious quals/experience, or want to work yourself into the ground, the most you're likely to get is about $USD2000 per person, but it's reasonably easy to get $1600-1700 per month (mostly teaching jobs, though there are other opportunities, and this info is, I'll admit, a bit out of date). This in enough to secure a good quality of living for two people, higher in my opinion than living in China; then the second income can just get put in an account and left.
