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Q: We complain about China However are we That good?
We bitch about China However how do others see us?
Today I saw one of the most disgusting things that a human being could do
The police came and took 4 girls away from their mother and put them on a plane to their Father in another country
they were aged 9 to 15 yrs old and clearly did not want to leave their mother
The term used was Deported however the children are citizens of their mothers country
The Country ? Australia and I have never before today Been so ashamed to Call myself Australian when this could happen.
I bet If they were of some other Nationality or another faith they would have been left alone.
so what do you not like about your country?
Yes I'm Pissed but totally sober
A very very big can of worms here. Red rag to a bull, I must compose myself.
sadly the world responds to china's tantrums. (i'm assuming you are in aus and they took the kids from her aussie mom to go live in china with her chinese father)
for some strange reason no one is willing to draw a line in the sand.
to answer your question the difference is in what is the root of the problem. in democracies the problem is with the people, we elect incompetent leaders based on petty , silly, insignificant differences. In china everything is controlled by the govt. therefore in countries like yours and mine the people must make changes and then elect the right leaders. in china, .................................. (you get the picture)
mArtiAn:
That's the thing though, I don't believe we really get a choice. Not in England and America anyway. I remember when Tony Blair got in it was very quickly pointed out that his name was an anagram of 'Tory Plan B'. We just get some fruity, skull and bones types, who get channeled to the chair and pressured to toe the line. I mean, you think Reagan was anything but a puppet? You think in a country as large as yours that two members of the same family of oil tycoons 'just happen' to be found worthy of holding political office for such a long period of time? And anyone of worth (the Kennedy's) who 'does' slip through, just doesn't stand a chance. It's a scam mate. The game is rigged. Bought and paid for. No different than the shit here. Don't fall for it.
I love plenty about Britain, but what don't I like? America's the bully of the world and Britain's in his gang. I don't want to think about it. Don't want to think about people like Crimochina. Guy's a f******g infection.
crimochina:
tell me, how does usa bully china? 22% Tariffs vs 2%. in trade money is going in 1 direction (into china). so where is the bullying?
philbravery:
I think he means in general the US try's to steer things in a direction that best suit the US interests and other countries jump on the band wagon Like Aus with
the Marine base
He is right to a degree
however I did tell you it would be interesting 
mattsm84:
Yet, for the last 40 East Asia has seen nothing but peace and prosperity despite the fact that most of the countries in this part of the world loath each other with a burning intensity. The Japanese and Chinese hate each other, and in turn are both hated by the Filipinos, South Koreans, and the Vietnamese. That's to say nothing business regarding North Korea or Taiwan. Still, we haven't seen a single regional conflict. Even the issue surrounding Daiyu island is more or less guaranteed to be resolved peaceably. The unspoken reason for this is that the United States, and specifically its navy and its air force will not allow it an open conflict to erupt.
In the place of open hostilities we've seen level of well being in this part of the world that 100 years ago would have seemed impossible. These things are largely made possible through co-operation with the United States and Europe.
So let me ask you, what sort of bully goes around preventing open warfare and making other's rich?
philbravery:
I personally would have preferred if Iraq and Iran blow each other of the map
as for Afghanistan if you guys believe that the loss of 2000 US troops was worth what you and our 39 dead have achieved and god know how many other dead foreigner troops have achieved was a good thing why is it not finished yet?
China and Japan and Korea and all the others have been at it since time began
only now the the power base has shifted like it did 60yrs ago and before that a hundred years ago and before that and before that and........
China and Vietnam had their little spat in the 80's China and Tiawan only resently stopped shooting at each other and I know this because my brother inlaw was there on the front line and a good friend of mine was Shelled on a Tiawan held island then you have Malaysia in the 50s and 60s it has not been that quiet if you look back in depthdo people really think the US does these unselfish acts for no reward
Nobody does anything for nothing.
that is my opinion anyway and you are entitled to yours
But please back to the topic what does your country do that you dont like?
philbravery:
unwilling participant but I get what you mean
I must apologize for going off
Just read the latest headlines
2 of the girls were taken off the plane because they didn't go quietly and the other passengers complained
but it is far from over and they will try again today( I bet drugged to the eyeballs)
I love a democracy (pissed off)
mattsm84:
@ Martian, that's more of a dodge than a rebuttal. The point I raised was that since Nixon traveled to China in the early 1970s US presence in east Asia has kept a series of relatively small skirmishes from boiling over into a larger regional conflict. Instead, this part of the world is thriving in a way that it hasn't in hundreds of years. The US helped accomplish this by helping to build the economies of several countries.
It's easy to be critical of the dominate country in a hegemony for having its fingers in many a pie, but if your going to do that you should at least be willing to recognize the role it plays when a shared prosperity is created.
@ Phil Of course the US isn't doing the things that it does for altruistic reasons. Economic realities dictate policy for most countries, and its why the US's energy needs keep it from staying out of the Middle East, even though its citizenry may wish that it would. However, if your going to be critical of the US for that, then you should at least be willing to credit it when it pursues policies that result in a shared prosperity. Yet, that never seems to happen, does it?
mArtiAn:
Well Matt, it's nice that people are nice. There's me thinking that the states (with the backing of Great Britain) have been making trouble for years, committing acts of terrorism, starting wars and trying to make economic slaves of every nation they can, when all the while they've been flitting around like good fairies healing the sick. My faith is restored.
mattsm84:
Your European, so I guess you'd know better than I would, but how exactly were you and your family enslaved by the Marshall Plan? Did your father have to spend years away from home building that 15 story tall statue of Truman that now stands in Swansea? I must have missed the day in history class when they explained that the money that we lent to your country, and other countries in western Europe, after the war went to provide for the cost of occupying you and dictating your domestic policy agendas, rather than simply providing market for American goods at a time when we had a trade surplus.
I mean, in all honesty, what sort of system do you think should replace our present one? You spend so much time on here antagonizing people that you'll never meet over their country of origin, surely you must have taken a minute or two to consider what you'd like to see instead. I'd love to hear it.
mArtiAn:
I like the ideas of Jaques Fresco who suggests a resource based economy, an end to the monetary system and a focus on utilizing existing technologies to improve the state of man's existence. Not sure exactly who i've been antagonizing, I just speak up when I hear people like Crimo spouting hatred for the Chinese community, when I don't see any call for it or any reason why he isn't focusing his attention on the many and varied problems of his own country. On the contrary, I think it is such as he who have an aim to antagonize.
I don't know jack shit about economics or the Marshal plan, though I am utterly convinced of the lengths man will go to to maintain power in a system such as we live in. It is ideological and truly naive to imagine for even a second that a system such as this, which leads people to believe there are not enough resources and the technology needed for man to live in abundance could exist, but I am that naive. The monetary system is such that it is impossible for anything resembling equality, fair play or human decency to exist because within it there must be those without in order for others to prosper. And because such a system inevitably leads to the monopolizing of wealth, those 'with' will always be in the minority. But as long the people who exist under their government are kept relatively satisfied with the crumbs fed them and have their frustrations redirected to an outside source it'll be business as usual.
I'm not good at these kinds of arguments, i'm not particularly well educated on such things, the opinions i've formed are based largely on my understanding of human nature, and i'm aware that all people are subject to profound selfishness when they are afraid of facing an empty food cupboard. I would really advise you to download and watch a movie called 'Zeitgeist Addendum' if you want to get a good view of my opinion of the world, it pretty much sums it up. You could of course follow the natural course of a circular thinker and allow yourself to be convinced that any man who is willing to admit to such a simplistic source as a movie documentary as the foundation of his current political beliefs could not possibly be worth listening to, and so discard my words as the worthless ramblings of a fool, and maybe you'd be right, but we see through our own eyes.
All you have to do is go onto a website that monitors human rights protection, ease of doing business, quality and accessibility of education/healthcare/welfare, democratic accountability, environmental standards etc to see that, yes, we are THAT good. Especially our Scandinavian and Swiss cousins.
Neither the USA, UK or other major European economies even make the top ten in any of these things. In fact, not a single country outside of the smaller European ones (minus Australia and Canada) gets in the top ten for any of the above listed issues. Then again, China is consistently near the bottom of these lists alongside Congo, Somalia, Afghanistan, N. Korea, Chad and Yemen.
You know what, the courts and the police were right to do what they did in Australia. Neither of these girls have the legal right to pick where they live as neither of them have reached the age of majority under Australian or Italian law. Further, the Australian courts ruled that the girls should return to Italy in 2011 and rather than comply with the courts ruling, this family ignored it for a year. That's technically abduction. If the girls were being mistreated, that'd be another thing, but so far none of them are making that case.
That they don't like the ruling is unfortunate, but what would your country look like if people were allowed to avoid court rulings because they had an emotional response to them?
"I'm sorry I killed all those people your honor, but I really, really, really don't want to go to prison!"
philbravery:
The Australian Government helped them to Flee and go to Australia in 2010
and yes under Australian law the courts listen to the wishes at these ages
philbravery:
also have you seen the footage of the removal or read more than the headlines on a web page?
mattsm84:
No, I read the entire article. I refrained from watching the footage. I thought it akin to a type of voyeurism that I'm frankly just not comfortable with. I do understand that they are profoundly unhappy with the court's judgment, but that fact alone isn't enough to sway me. So unless the tape conveys some additional information then I really don't see the point of watching it. I understand that they are unhappy with the court's ruling, I just don't care. The law is the law, and a strong emotional response doesn't change that fact.
What's much more disturbing is that you don't seem to see anything wrong with the fact that the Australian government was an active party in something that it later found, quite reasonably I'd add, to be abduction. That strikes me as a little Nixonian. Shouldn't your government be subject to your country's laws?
philbravery:
have you ever heard of the Gillespie children?
Every time another country wants something Australia just lowers it's head in submission
Maybe we should take more of a stand and tell other countries to F@%k OFF!!
it works for China
GuilinRaf:
To be honest, I have never heard of the Gillespie Children. Could you please shed some light?
Guys .can you help me get 10 of my daughters deported from China?
What do I dislike about my country? Well, let me give a small example that may as well stand in for the whole. In the US we have a television station called The Learning Chanel. When I was a kid they used to broadcast cooking shows, or shows that would teach you have to install hardwood flooring, or how to properly landscape your lawn. However, they don't really do that anymore. Now they have a show called "Here Comes Honey Boo-Boo." It's a reality TV show about a poor family from the south that likes to enroll one of their daughters, the titular Honey Boo-Boo, in child beauty pageants. In a recent episode, a their sixteen year old daughter, Honey Boo-Boo's older sister, gave birth to a kid that had six fingers on one of its hands. That's what I dislike about my country.
giadrosich:
Lol. I think that it's the ol' "train wreck" syndrome. People don't want to look, but they are compelled to see the strange. "Honey Boo-Boo?" That's just wrong, but funny, in a sad sort of way.
I'm glad I missed that one, but I took John Prine's advice about 20 years ago and "blew up my T.V." Actually, we had a grand celebration and at the end of the party, everyone got a swing in with the fire-axe. There is some good things about the tube, but I have a lot more time without it, lol.
mArtiAn:
Jesus, i've never been to America and I am not anti-American in any way (no fan of the government though) but Honey-Boo-Boo sounds bloody awful.
I was watching a show last night by a man called Derren Brown (one of the things I 'like' about my country) and in it he went to the states to try and point out the fraudulent nature of the evangelical Christian movement's penchant for making tons of cash on fake faith healing. For example a 14 year old girl saw a show where somebody was 'healed' of a serious illness she herself suffered from (can't remember which) at the LOW LOW PRICE OF ONLY 1000 DOLLARS, and managed to raise the money from her grandmother and pay it out. When she found she was still sick she called the people she'd paid it to and was told that she still had a sin inside her that would not allow her to get well, so she went out into the backyard, poured gasoline over herself, and set herself on fire.
Feel like I should follow this with some kind of attack on my own country, I don't wish to be construed as anti-American, but I can't be bothered. Why would I need to, my country possesses endless vaults of third world debt that keep us in the manner to which we are accustomed. You all know that. I don't call the admission of such truths self hating, anti-western or un-patriotic, I call it honesty.
mattsm84:
It's not that I think American television is a waste land. I would recommend several shows from the past decade that are absolutely terrific. In fact, do yourself a favor Gia and download a show called the Wire. It's well acted, and an incredibly thought provoking look at the way that American cities are managed.
Anyway, my problem isn't that America has stupid people in it. Every country undoubtedly does. In fact, I'd argue that on aggregate we match up pretty well when measured against countries of relatively the same size and population like India, China, Russia, and Brazil. It's more that Americans like to watch these shows, laugh at the people on them, and feel more than little superior about themselves; but in reality all they are doing is re-enforcing bad behavior by celebrating idiocy.
Martian's comment makes me feel a little bit better because apparently Americans don't have the market cornered when it comes to cynically using morons for profit on television. Don't get me wrong, but, even though this guy is theoretically trying to help these people by pointing out how their being taken advantage of, I'm not sensing a lot of compassion from Mr. Brown based on your description. That this episode ends with an either an implied, or televised self-immulation makes me feel like I'm reading about a snuff film. If Derren Brown is just pointing the camera at some red necks with the hope of coming up with something exploitative is he really any better than the preachers that he's attempting to expose?
mArtiAn:
Dunno what self-immulation means; checked on Longman and came up short, so i'm going to assume it means something along the lines of selling yourself out and revealing yourself as at fault. Is that it? Just found 'immolation' and that means hurting yourself or something, so I think I know where you're coming from on the whole. Well what Derren Brown did was he trained a man to be a 'faith healer' and got him out there doing his stuff. There are a number of tricks employed by these frauds and he had his man do them. After each time they explained that it was not real and the reason they were doing it. The final bit was in an auditorium but they didn't get much of an audience. All he did there was sell his story of being a healer but finish by saying that he didn't want anyone's money and believed that anyone who 'did' ask for money for such things as healing was being dishonest. All in all the show was not a great success to my mind, but they did well in bringing the subject to light to some degree.
What do I not like about my country?
I could really sum it up in one phrase, "Welfare state dependent, criminally lazy wank**s"
What is worse these non-workers get priority housing, AND are teaching their offspring (frequently of which there are many) how not to work, still get money and to 'milk' the system. Trouble is the only sure 'cure' is the eradication of the welfare state, which would deprive those most deserving (i.e. those who have worked all their lives and fell on hard times) of a vital means of support.
GuilinRaf:
If anyone ever thought you were Chinese, your more than eloquent expression here more than laid those absurd claims to rest....
lokethebloke:
I'm a 'Bevan Boy' and it breaks my heart to see what a mess it has become. There are thieves and vagabonds everywhere. If it wasn't for the NHS I would have been dead years ago.
Oh, that's horrible, I just saw the footage. Poor kids.Seems a tough case - courts are obliged to follow the law.
What the **** does being good have to do with complaining about China? YES, China is consistently near the bottom. Matt, you made a lot of good points.
LAR:
Yes phil, another one of your typical,insulting anal replies. Heads up!
NOT A SURPRISE FROM AUSTRALIANS.......
MissA:
Awwwww, you created a whole new account just to trash us. That's not sad, no, not sad at all...
Who the hell are we? Anyone who says that is mistaken and presenting a question that
makes no sense. There is only us. Try again. Fail.
