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Q: What are the Real Motives and Motifs Behind a Non-Chinese and Chinese Romantic Relationship?
This is just a topic which has been running through my head a lot as of late. As I continue to meet more fellow foreigners in China and spend more time here, I've begun to notice a number of different trends concerning the romantic relationships had by foreigners. Here are my observations:
- The relationship is usually between a foreign male and a Chinese woman
- Once they've settled down together the Chinese female partner usually stops working (even in cases where the couple has no children), with the foreign male partner usually assuming the role of the breadwinner
- The foreign male partner may have not had much dating experience back in their home country
- The foreign male partner (more times than not) is unable to speak Chinese to at least a basic level
As previously mentioned, these are just observations. Nonetheless, it's observations such as these which at times make me call into question what the foundation behind these relationships really is.
Are these relationships done out of convenience? Does the foreign male partner relish more at the idea of feeling important, getting that sense of manliness that he was perhaps unable to attain back at home than the actual chemistry of the relationship? Is there some type of power trip being played here on the part of the foreign male partner or Chinese female partner? Should it really even matter, as they say, different strokes for different folks? Is your relationship like this, and if so, does that bother you?
8 years 30 weeks ago in Relationships - China
If you are serious, then you must still be young. Perhaps another year of being the butt of ignorant Chinese value judgements will cure that, and you will speak more responsibly, the way you wish others would speak to/about you.
My Chinese wife, whose dating experience was zero and mine also disappointing, started an export business that is funding our emigration plans. She recently put up an advert in her hometown website, which attracted all manner of value judgements.
"Traitor. Dating a foreigner takes away a chance for our men. Be more responsible."
"Za zhong (hybrid breedbastard; referring to a picture of our babies in the advert) may be attractive, but they have mental impairments and often become prostitutes."
"You will never make it out of China. You married a loser. Chinese abroad are elites wherever they go."
Remember, this was an advertisement about imported food products, not propaganda for interracial dating. But our photo identities were enough to set Chinese men into defensive ranting.
Your value judgements are EXACTLY the same. Intended to hurt feelings of readers. Ask yourself why us "losers" with little success in dating or job markets back home, are spoilt for choice when it comes to women in China, and can date women with model physiques, and easily provide for them too. The ones who have a stable marriage/partnership with a single woman are pretty decent guys, given their options to go on a pussy rampage here.
What does that say about the level of competence displayed by Chinese men in love and life? Stop thinking of twisted ways to turn around the situation with cleverly-worded value judgements, and start cleaning up your mess at home. Then perhaps you'll have nothing to be jealous about.
Are you doing sociology research or just trying to troll people?
Second, who says it is your job to question the foundation of other people's relationships?
Third, plenty of messed up relationships in the US...no reason expat/Chinese ones should be any different....
And let me guess, Foreign women dating Chinese guys are so modern, open minded and make the right choice?
Now where have I met your type before?
Motives ?? Marriages done out of convenience??
I'm not married but I know a lot of people here who are ( Foreign / Chinese marriages that is) and I'm pretty sure they didn't get married with any motives in mind other than the usual reasons people marry. As for the marriages being convenient it seems to me they're anything but that.
As for your observations...
Yes, every marriage I know of is Foreign male/ Chinese woman, but the other observations don't at all mirror what I've seen. Ok, the woman stopping work when they have a baby does but that's hardly unusual.
Okay, you've now all aired your thoughts; but just to be clear, I'm not necessarily questioning the viability of these relationships, just the basis of them.
Some people marry for the sake of tradition and stability, others do it in the name for what they view as love. Neither of the two are more valid than the other since it all depends on the individual circumstances, along with the cultural and social norms.
Like I said, just making an observation, as foreigners who may currently be in a relationship with a Chinese woman, please try not to take this personally.
"Once they've settled down together the Chinese female partner usually stops working (even in cases where the couple has no children), with the foreign male partner usually assuming the role of the breadwinner"
I don't think that's the case at all. I would guess there are more unemployed Chinese women married to rich Chinese men. Not sure what you're basing this on. Maybe you know one or two foreigners and you think that's enough to draw a conclusion? I'm not married and getting defensive btw, cos I'm sure that's another crazy conclusion you would draw from this.
kasuka91:
Then what is the case with your foreign male friends who are married?
Hotwater:
I'm married to a Chinese woman. We married for love. She has her own small business and in no way wants to rely on me to be the bread winner.
I have western friends also married to Chinese women. In most of their cases the wife doesn't work....but they all have young children so look after them at home.
xunliang:
The wives work. I thought that was implied from what I put....
Hotwater:
Sorry Xunliang, I should have been clear. I was replying to the other poster.
xunliang:
You were replying to the other poster....on my answer? That doesn't make sense. You wrote that before Hotwater replied to my answer. I want whatever you're smoking.
Why are you so obsessed with relationships of others?
Let me make an observation about you:
You are a feminist troll.
kasuka91:
I'm not obsessed about it. Of all of the different questions that I've posted up in the past, I think that this is, along with one other, are about relationships. Just answer the question.
silverbutton1:
I dont care to answer your question(s). I made a solid opinion, and I'm sticking with it. Your questions/comments/observations/etc. reeks of the typical depressed, spiteful, femitrolls I see commenting ALL THE TIME on MGTOW, MRA, etc. The mere fact that you find such a topic "so interesting" speaks volumes that you have nothing else better to do. Lastly, Im fairly certain you are either not in a deep relationship, or just ended one...
[ I also think you are probably a disgruntled lesbian as well. Fat, ugly and full of hate]
Your question comes off as a rant, I'm not sure what you're really trying to ask. It seems as though maybe you have a more direct question that you're tip toeing around...
I think the answer to your question is: Yes. It is possible for people who do not share the same native tongue to have a real, meaningful connection.
I will try and answer your question honestly. I must admit that your question does come with a fair amount of prejudicial baggage. Your observations seem to be towing a line common in the anti-foreigner media here in China.
I am in a relationship with a Chinese woman. I am from a Western country.
My partner works. We are not married. If we were married I would expect her to work.
I don't assume any gender-specified roles as I consider myself a modern male and that gender roles are antiquated and unhelpful in a good relationship. Sometimes I dress up as a cowboy in the bedroom but that is more about role play rather than long-lasting defined roles within the confines of a relationship.
I have had plenty of dating experience in my home country. In my past it wasn't often that I was single. Sorry if I don't fit into your pre-conceived stereotype.
I've only been here for 18 months or so but my Chinese is quite good. It's well above survival level Chinese. I can hold a brief conversation with a stranger and tell them about myself and answer some questions. Don't ask me to give a lecture on particle physics or to conduct a light opera.
I'm going out with a girl that is Chinese because I am in China and there are only Chinese girls here to date.
Unlike you I see people as people and not as their race. When I date a person I see them as a person and not as a "Chinese" person.
It speaks volumes about your prejudices that you make such "observations" masquerading as sociological enquiry.
It would be interesting to all of us here if you could talk freely on your own sexual life, history and possible racial preferences. We'd all love to hear about it.
kasuka91:
Thanks for answering the question. As previously mentioned, I'm also a foreigner and don't view myself as much of a prejudiced person. Like all of us, whether consciously or sub-consciously, I do have a racial preference and I've dated different types of women back home and here.
I generally believe that my observations don't hold much malice, or at least, I don't intend to imply hate or frustration when writing about them. I just can't help but notice these additional dynamics at play with this type of relationship. Part of the reason why I asked the question is out of curiosity and also because I (personally) want to avoid falling into this type of relationship while in China. Maybe they're for some people, but they're not for me. Hence, the reason why I also asked about the "motifs".
And yes, not all relationships between foreign males and Chinese women are like this and I'm aware of the fact that there are plenty of them out there. I have also, however, seen relationships that were built on the basis of a foreign male landing in China, knowing jack about the country who fell for the first girl that looked his way...
Here, maybe this article will reflect more light on what I'm talking about here:
http://middlekingdomlife.com/guide/unavailability-underrepresentation-wo...
If you are serious, then you must still be young. Perhaps another year of being the butt of ignorant Chinese value judgements will cure that, and you will speak more responsibly, the way you wish others would speak to/about you.
My Chinese wife, whose dating experience was zero and mine also disappointing, started an export business that is funding our emigration plans. She recently put up an advert in her hometown website, which attracted all manner of value judgements.
"Traitor. Dating a foreigner takes away a chance for our men. Be more responsible."
"Za zhong (hybrid breedbastard; referring to a picture of our babies in the advert) may be attractive, but they have mental impairments and often become prostitutes."
"You will never make it out of China. You married a loser. Chinese abroad are elites wherever they go."
Remember, this was an advertisement about imported food products, not propaganda for interracial dating. But our photo identities were enough to set Chinese men into defensive ranting.
Your value judgements are EXACTLY the same. Intended to hurt feelings of readers. Ask yourself why us "losers" with little success in dating or job markets back home, are spoilt for choice when it comes to women in China, and can date women with model physiques, and easily provide for them too. The ones who have a stable marriage/partnership with a single woman are pretty decent guys, given their options to go on a pussy rampage here.
What does that say about the level of competence displayed by Chinese men in love and life? Stop thinking of twisted ways to turn around the situation with cleverly-worded value judgements, and start cleaning up your mess at home. Then perhaps you'll have nothing to be jealous about.
In all fairness, it is next to impossible for any guy who is in such a relationship to answer the title question objectively although it is obviously an important question, i.e. whether love is the cornerstone of a relationship or not. Subjectivity is involved. This even applies to something far less intimate such as friendship. Who wants to be used by someone who befriends you with ulterior motives?
I did a quick search on ecc and found this question. Granted, it was asked and answered three years ago but factors such as social values and beliefs don't do a 180 degree turn in three years. See if you find this helpful? http://answers.echinacities.com/question/are-divorce-rates-chinese-forei...
coineineagh:
I can answer the question: I arrived divorced and broke in China. My wife stayed with me despite my dismal beginnings and unhelpful relatives. Family in China tried to get her to pick someone else, but she didn't. Even when we argued, her loyalty never wavered. By starting off poor, I have the luxury of knowing gor a fact that my wife loves me for better or worse. Despite this, I would never accuse a couple of being in a mrcenary relationship, or a marriage of convenience. Even though it's possible, it's none of my business, and people deserve the benefit of the doubt.
earthizen:
She certainly doesn't sound like a gold-digger. The best scenario is her love for you has nothing to do with money or passport (i.e. gateway to global mobility/freedom/opportunities and better living conditions). The real test for many mainland girls comes after they manage to get the holy grail (in their eyes), a foreign passport. By the sound of it, you have reasons to expect smooth sailing! Congratulations and best wishes.
coineineagh:
A foreign passport for my wife just spells trouble. Unable to do business or own property in China. We are emigrating for our kids' education, but may return one day. If my wife lives abroad for a long time (5 years), we might actually return to preserve my wife's right to keep her passport. Immigration authorities expect 5 year resitents to naturalize into citizens, and we don't want the whole family to lose Chinese nationality.
earthizen:
She can still do business in prc without a chinese citizenship by partnering with a local. Granted, it isn't that appealing due to the high risks but it is possible. The kids have a significantly higher chance of becoming freethinkers with moral integrity, and earn money that comes without negative consequences.
Starting a business together in your case looks like a plus, giving you another platform to enjoy life, and later financial success. As a third party, I notice a pattern, her initial struggle to be with you, and the initial difficulties with the business (your other posts). Your success in the former is an indicator of the eventual success of your business. I don't believe life is meant to be suffered but it is true that the ups and downs you (two) go through together can add strength to your bond. Sounds like you (and family) are on the right track!
Boy, what a racist. If Chinese men treated women well , they wouldn't even want foreign men.
Interesting how you ask about the real motives/motif and your observations seemed to be based on diminishing the foreign partner and later on in one reply you say,
"I just can't help but notice these additional dynamics at play with this type of relationship."
Should we as observers make some kind of interpretation of what you are saying. The first thing I think is your just trolling. To put it bluntly it sounds like you are saying the foreigners who marry Chinese women are losers. Would I be wrong in this assessment? For you are not saying anything that would be an admirable trait.
You can say the same thing about men outside of country who 'attain' brides through such means as, say for example, ordering them through the mail, or using their position whether as an employer or teacher. But in that case does it matter if she is Chinese? Wouldn't the focus be on her being younger, more impressionable, more beautiful than what he can get in his own country, etc?
Let me share my observations.
I have been here only a few years and in those few years I have actually met three couples with kids where the husbands are mainland Chinese and the wives are the 'foreigners'.
The 'foreign' men I have met who are married to locals here actually all speak Chinese very well and can actually carry on a conversation. I've seen them do it with strangers, their spouse, and mother-in-law though I think the latter is not really a bonus. (that's a joke)
So in part it seems like you are looking for reinforcement of common a theme that is reiterated about the character/calibre of the type of foreign men that pursue Chinese women.
So all in all...........you mad bro?
coineineagh:
well broken down. for me the story just smacks of Mainlander attitude. "asking" for feedback, but already announcing the implied conclusion. talking about foreign men dating Chinese women with thinly veiled condemnations of both. pretending to be an expat, but thinking like a Mainlander. It's easier to disguise your face than it is to change your thoughts and writing style. I call Mainland shenanigans with Chinese characteristics.
