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Sign up with Google Sign up with FacebookQ: What are the rules for face loss?
I am curious as to the unwritten rules of losing face in China. It seems some people do such terrible or a-hole actions all the time. I would guess that such actions would make them lose face but for some reason they seem not too. It seems that doing something considered "no face" doesn't make you lose face EXCEPT if someone calls you out. It has made me come to the conclusion that it is impossible to lose face due to your own actions and that only others can make you lose face. Do you guys agree? Is it possible to lose face by your own actions?
This whole theory is based on, "You lost face to someone? Okay, no worries! make sure you make someone else loose 2% more than you."
Lord_hanson:
I used to think this. The thing is they usually throw a major tantrum when they lose face. This in my opinion would make them lose more face. Apparently not though. It supposedly only makes the person who made them lose face look a fool. Thus reinforcing my theory that any action no matter how ridiculous can make you lose face. Only another can make you lose face.
This whole theory is based on, "You lost face to someone? Okay, no worries! make sure you make someone else loose 2% more than you."
Lord_hanson:
I used to think this. The thing is they usually throw a major tantrum when they lose face. This in my opinion would make them lose more face. Apparently not though. It supposedly only makes the person who made them lose face look a fool. Thus reinforcing my theory that any action no matter how ridiculous can make you lose face. Only another can make you lose face.
What are the rules in a playground populated with 12-years-old kids? "No I'm not, you are!", "You made me look bad, I will make your life hell", "Look at me, look at me! I am someone!".
Grown up Chinese are 12-years-old kids, do not ever assume that they are responsible adults.
You have to remember that if you wearing a Brioni Vanquish II suit, and you spit yourself, normally that would be an embarrassing event and you'd loose face. However, as all the peasants around you are not wearing stupendously expensive garments, you still win. Imagine being so rich you can take a dump in a 250000 RMB suit. Wow that gains face doesn't it.
RandomGuy:
You shower and groom your hair on a daily basis, you work out 5 times a week and you have an athletic/attractive body, you are educated and have countless useful skills? Sorry, to the fat farmland buyout kings in China who never graduated from middle school and shower once a month, you are below them, a sub-human, because you don't wear an expensive suit, don't drive a luxury car and it somehow gives them the right to treat you like spit.
Face is about dominance, appearing to be better then others.
So if you go out for dinner, you have to fight to pay for the food and for everyone else as that gives you "face" because even though you're probably on 2,000 or 4,000 RMB a month (The place I live in China, it's the average income) you have to pretend like money ain't no thing.
Even though you're broke as hell, you still have to pretend like you're so rich you can wipe your ass with 100 RMB bills. That gives you face, but ends up screwing you in the end.
Because the person who was wise enough to save, not care about face and so forth has some money saved up to start a life for himself, whilst the person who cares about face will still be the 12 year old kid who pretends to be somebody he isn't.
Who cares about face when you can get a seat on a bus by pushing and shoving... getting the seat is far more important!!!
(yeah, I had that tonight... I was the first one at the bus-stop, and still didn't get a seat).
ScotsAlan:
Yes. I don't get this bus thing at all.
One time I was getting on a bus, but people were not moving back so we could not get on. I used my bulk to block the door and try to protect my then pregnant wife who was on the first step. Without a world of a lie, I ended up with people having their legs wrapped around me to get a foot on, and peoples head pushed into my armpits... and there was nowhere for them to go. There was not a single empty inch of space at the front... but the back of the bus was empty.
Face is all about how others perceive you. It's not about character, honor, ethics, or any of those, but entirely a popularity contest.
You can't ever really give yourself face, since even things you do that gain face are really just ways to get people to like you.
If you buy an expensive car, you gain face when other people are impressed, since wealth is the most important thing in China.
This is also why behaviors that we would think would be face-losing in the West (spitting, littering, reckless driving, public urination, lying, etc.) aren't face-losing here. Manners and maturity aren't that highly valued. Laziness isn't seen as a terrible sin here, so an officer worker dicking around on Taobao or QQ all day instead of doing any work, or a guard spending all day sitting in a chair, smoking, and watching videos on a phone, don't fear loss of face. Chinese people don't look down on such behavior.
Grandparents shamelessly let their grandchildren urinate on the ground, since Chinese don't see this as disgusting, and so, no loss of face. Being poor, however, is a terrible thing, so appearing poor to others is something that must be avoided at all costs. Even what we would call manners (letting others go first, or treating the waitstaff like humans, for example) can be viewed as weakness, so bullying is a way to gain face. If you push others around, it means you are strong, so you gain face.
Always remember to enjoy laughing back at them more they are! Show them a big joker smile and make sure it's loud enough to piss them off..
Face is by far the most idiotic concept I have EVER come across from any country.
It is true, you can't lose face until someone puts the spotlight on your actions... this is why Chinese are EXTREMELY vengeful people. This is ALSO why Chinese think they get away with anything (lying, cheating, bullying, conning, rudeness etc.)... as long as nobody brings it up.
Because if you lose face due to somebody else calling you out. You MUST get revenge in a way that makes them pay (usually losing face, money or something radical like a violent act).
Rather than self-reflection, self-improvement (aii yaaa... tai ma fan le) they opt for baby tantrums, pointing at somebody or something else... or just pretending like nothing happened. It's incredibly annoying.