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Q: What are your experiences with Chinese medicine and did it work?
11 years 9 weeks ago in Health & Safety - China
I tried chinese medicine....i don't mind the liquid cough syrup they have, however, there is a form of medicine that someone got for me while I was sick. You were supposed to take like 30 to 40 small balls of medicine. It was very nasty! I felt like throwing up!
Nah, I don't put much faith in it but my wife and her aunt do, so I'm kind of stuck with it. One thing I do like about the Chinese medical system, to say nothing of Chinese medicine, is over the counter anti-biotics. In a medical sense its probably terrible for my health long term, but nothing like knocking out a sinus infection in two or three days. As for the rest, who can say if it worked or not, but my symptoms weren't alleviated before my sickness cleared up.
Scandinavian:
you might want to read up on "resistance to antibiotics" and how we risk, in 20-30 years, dying of minor infections because the drugs have become ineffective due to improper use.
at the same time get in the history books and look up the increase in life expectancy when penicillin was first discovered, a doubling of life expectancy.
My experience is that everything from a brain anurism to an ingrown toenail is treated with a saline drip. I prefer to put my faith in the power of prayer. And Chinese brandy. When they start to give Chinese brandy drips I may start to give them a little more of my custom.
My Chinese wife is angry with me because I refuse to drink her concoction for my minor cold/flu symptoms............. she shredded some ginger, added coca cola and warmed it up...........I don't drink "pop" but I commend the coca cola company for selling this Bu****it to the Chinese............. but I am not drinking the stuff.
You don't trust? everybody drinks coca-cola
DaqingDevil:
Including that NZealand woman who died from drinking 10 litres a day for 15 years!! Now that's what I call addiction! And a tragedy.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/world/16123426/coca-cola-habit-a-factor-in-n-zealanders-death-coroner/
Few natural herbs are OK to me. I prefer to avoid chemical related stuff.
When I first got sick there was no way I was ever going to try Chinese meds. And like 99Silva the little black balls nearly killed me. Over time I have succumbed but only because the darn stuff worked a treat.
My gout attack - cured in an hour. Chinese medicine.
An itchy rash - Chinese cream works a treat.
Bronchitis / cough - Chinese antibiotic like mattsm84. Deliriously good.
What can I say?
I had a heap of western medicines sent to me in the post over a year ago and I haven't used it all as yet.
I'm not 100% convinced but I'm on that road heading away from skepticism!!
Unfortunately I am thinking that most of my ailments are due to the air pollution - also made in China!
Don't think it does much but provide a means for administering a dosage of placebo. Which is great. It also administers typically a great deal of water, which is also great. Cure disease, I think not. I do not have much faith in most modern drugs either, with a few exception, e.g. morphine and other opiates actually does what it says on the box.
it looks like great business for those involved as I often see people carry large backs of different pills away from the pharmacies
DaqingDevil:
It is certainly good business. Chinese meds cost twice as much as pharmaceuticals!
I give this question a thumbs down, because it's been asked so many times before!!!!! (and, I don't like flogging a dead horse, so I won't actually comment on this one).
Only thing I'll say - for some it seems to have had a positive effect, for others it seems to have had no effect (and, maybe, for some, a negative effect).
One of the biggest problems with 'Chinese medicine' is that so few have any actual ideas about it, and so splurt out a stack of crap :(
Scandinavian:
actually the big problem about Chinese medicine is that everyone has an opinion about it, often in different directions.
Here are the real facts about Chinese medicine:
Over it's long history, some things have been discovered to work, not by clinical testing, but by trial and error., just like all other forms of herbal medicine throughout the ages. This is of course normal - it's the basis for medicine as we know it today. Over time, they have discovered a few things that actually can treat some illnesses or ease symptoms. This isn't uniquely a Chinese thing or special in any way - every other culture has come across medicinal plants and discovered that they can be used in a similar manner - by enough trial and error, you are bound to find something given a period of time.
The main issue with TCM is that it's based in mythology, magic, and superstition. EVERYTHING that can go wrong with you is due to a magic energy called "Qi" being out of balance. All diagnosis and application of medicine is based on this idea. The problem of course being that there is no such thing as "Qi". Hippocrates had a very similar system called the "4 Humors" - eerily similar, based on fluids of the body out of balance and tied to an "element" like wind, water, etc. This notion was abandoned after people began to actually learn about the human body and do dissections and study it. The Chinese never did this. All of their ideas about the internal workings of the human body were based on speculation - until the Jesuits arrived with detailed images of the workings of anatomy, and even then, the Chinese thought the Jesuits were inferior because they KNEW Chinese hearts were in the direct center of their chests unlike the lesser missionaries (due to their drawings) that showed their hearts were slightly to the left. It was greatly ignored until they realized the Jesuits were actually CURING people.
Some things discovered in TCM are good, some are again, just hokum. For example, the Ephedra plant when taking allows for easier breathing. True. Eating lamb "makes your blood hot" - false. Yet most of these notions are accepted as FACT today, so we have animals like bears being tortured for their "magic bile", and others going extinct simply because Chinese men want a boner and somehow eating a tiger penis or rhino horn will do this (mind you, Viagra is available almost EVERYWHERE in China for cheap and OTC - but it's tough to let go of the few thousand years of magic and superstition).
So there's a little history. Now, overall, I will agree with what Shining_Brow said above:
"for some it seems to have had a positive effect, for others it seems to have had no effect (and, maybe, for some, a negative effect)."
Works for some, doesn't work for others. Currently way too much reliance on IV medicines.
Scandinavian:
MrT Great post
the IV thing is a cashcow for hospitals more than anything else. if you can walk yourself to the hospital and you do not have a serious problem with your digestive system, then you are able to take a pill with a glas of water. the times I have walked past an IV room, most people are sitting there chatting like they are at the hairdresser, it is a thing to do rather than a thing needed.
the TCM with its strong links to diet, brings a lot of focus on health where people feel the need to constantly do something to promote their health.
MrTibbles:
TCM's focus on a healthy diet is good. But this isn't something strictly Chinese, nor is it "medicine".
What I have issue with is food being able to balance magic energy. Seriously, I have been sick before, been told by a Chinese doctor that it was because my blood was "cold", and I should eat more yangrou (lamb) to warm it up. Pure BS.
Look, take your temperature. What is it? 37 degrees C? OK good. Now eat some lamb. Take your temperature. Oh lordy! What is it? 37 degrees C?
Now these concepts may have made sense before people had a better understanding of the human body. Temperature etc was also linked to food in the west for a long time (Oranges were considered "hot" and good to eat in the morning to "warm-up" the body from sleep - hence to this day orange juice is common for breakfast - but no longer because people believe it "warms the blood"). But let's face it. They are superstition and have been disproven by modern science. Some people still believe it and SWEAR that it works, but without fact based observation following scientific method, it's all hear-say and probably unfounded.
It's like in the west - when we start to get a cold, many people begin OD'ing on Vitamin C. Why? Because some research in the 1970s said it might help. 60 years of clinical trials have shown that um well, not really. There might be slight advantages, but nothing that suggests it actually helps prevent or get rid of colds any faster than NOT taking vitamin C.
Shining_brow:
While I don't want to go over this whole battlefield again, I just want to bring up an important (I think) point...
[quote]
What I have issue with is food being able to balance magic energy. Seriously, I have been sick before, been told by a Chinese doctor that it was because my blood was "cold", and I should eat more yangrou (lamb) to warm it up. Pure BS.
Look, take your temperature. What is it? 37 degrees C? OK good. Now eat some lamb. Take your temperature. Oh lordy! What is it? 37 degrees C?[/quote]
These 2 paragraphs say you have ZERO... let me say that again, ZERO... and one more time, just in case you missed it, ZERO understanding of TCM!
I get it.. you're heavily invested in a purely physical material universe. If you can't cut it up and rip it apart, it doesn't exist. And thus, any suggestion that such things do exist is, in your mind (and that of many others), 'hokum'.
All I ask is that you retain your scientific stance... well, actually, go back to it! I'm quite happy for you to say "it's never been proven" - that's a scientific statement! "It's hokum" is an opinion! (and, incredibly bad science!!!)
MrTibbles:
Don't make assumptions about me simply because I don't agree with your notions of "medicine". The basis of TCM is simply WRONG. The brain does not "store marrow", the concepts of "upper and lower jiao" are 100% incorrect, and It does not take a genius to understand that the ideas of human anatomy and physiology from the Bronze Age mingled with spiritualism and shamanism, most of which is in direct conflict with modern understanding and scientific FACT based evidence, is not in fact science or medicine.Sorry, but a "doctor" that prescribes his patient tiger urine to "rid the body of impurities" is not only full of shit, but he's a danger to his patient.
The fundamental basis of "understanding" is simply wrong in TCM, as it uses out-dated assumptions of how the human body works. Then, this is used to create treatment for patients.
If I said "The left leg stores vital fluids which are pumped to the lungs and vaporized to the rest of the body as essential Pwa", would you believe it? What if I showed you a book and said it's been used for thousands of years? Even though this is in direct conflict with modern understandings of anatomy and physiology?
This is the problem with TCM. It's foundations are WRONG. The underlying theoretical principles of TCM have no basis in reality. Your argument is that I'm being ignorant for not believing in Qi and that I "understand ZERO (to the third power) about TCM".. This is the equivalent of saying "prove to me the soul DOESN'T reside in the spleen!" or "prove unicorns DON'T exist!"
Actually, I understand quite a lot about TCM, which is why I am so outspoken against it.
Shining_brow:
Hmmm.... I'm wondering just how civil I should be here...
If you actually read my comment, you'll see that I didn't attack your comments because of a disagreement in the concept of medicine (which would be strawman argument...), I attacked your comment because you showed a fundamental lack of understanding of TCM. Just because something is considered 'hot' in TCM, does not mean that it will increase your body temperature. Using that as an 'example' indicates complete ignorance... Your connection with unicorns and souls is also wrong! Please, learn to read what I actually write if you're going to debate with me! You were making an 'argument' based on false ideas - your ideas, that you obviously made up!
What I AM attacking you on, is your insistence on confusing science with your opinion!!! (funny... you seem to have this serious blindspot in your mind, in which you seem completely unable to see the difference between 'science' - actual real science - and your opinion. Multiple times now, I've pointed out that science only makes claims about what has been found,and what has not been found... and you continuously keep adding your opinions to those legitimate scientific claims - claims of 'this is hokum'. Please, go back to the basics of fundamental scientific enquiry!!)
The fundamental underlying principles have no basis in YOUR reality (which may or may not be the same reality as western scientific medicine). I'm not agreeing with everything in TCM (it would be stupid to!), but I at least understand that TCM does not equate with western medicine, and I can actually use that understanding to intelligently discuss it (alongside the western scientific type).
(BTW, if you hadn't noticed, I'm not an ignorant, superstitious savage!)
(also, when you do respond to this comment, you should note that I haven't even once made a claim either FOR or AGAINST TCM... there's a massive difference here between advocating a stance for one thing, and taking a stance against something else!)
MrTibbles:
Proof of Qi? Share a link Rules for link: Cannot be from some TCM website promoting TCM. Must be a peer reviewed article. This proof must be validated by at least 3 sources.
I'll be expecting a link, um, never.
You're constantly saying "I know nothing about TCM!!!!! Ignorant!!!!". So, because I think it's quack medicine, based on research, personal experiences, and many other factors - Because I think it's hokum, I DON'T UNDERSTAND TCM! Great argument. Very Chinese.
Let me explain this simply: I referenced the book from 2500 years ago BECAUSE IT IS THE BASIS FOR TCM - EVEN TO THIS DAY. Read a TCM text book. It's taken as cannon, there is the belief that the original writers are infalliable, and that any modern usage/discoveries needs to be based on the principles of this book. This is all true, not made up, and a core tennant of TCM.
Yes, I have a problem with this. Again, since the basis of TCM is flat out wrong knowledge of the human body, ie - the organs don't really do what TCM says they do, it is not a sound basis for more research knowing what we know today.
Imagine if western medicne was based on the 4 humors. Sure, it might have discovered some useful things, but the basis is wrong.
Modern science, knowing what we know now, should be used IN PLACE of traditional mumbo-jumbo - then it can move forward. Instead, it's used to try and validate and explain ancient superstition. You can try and say that "Evil Qi" actually referes to whatever, but the ancients didn't actually know this, they thought it was an evil spirit.. Oh you mean the liver doesn't ACTUALLY produce vapors that rise to the lungs? Let's just ignore that then. But no. TCM MUST explain how this is REAL by any means needed - simply to validate and give "truth" to TCM. It's hokum.
Also, you simply assume I know nothing about TCM because I don't belive it, which is far from the truth. I know a lot about it, again, which is why I argue AGAINST it.
I don't even need to debate or argue. Let's just look at this.Here is an example of a modern TCM textbook explaining the causes of Diabetes:
Diabetes occurs in association with the following etiologic factors:
1. The spleen and stomach are damaged by overeating greasy food or by over-consuming alcohol, causing failure of the spleen in transporting and transforming which, in turn, causes interior-heat to accumulate and consume food and body fluids, finally resulting in diabetes.
2. Anxiety, anger, mental depression, etc. injure the liver, causing the liver qi to stagnate. Protractedly stagnated liver qi turns into evil heat which consumes body fluids and eventually leads to diabetes.
3. Deficiency in the kidneys caused by intemperance in sexual life or congenital essence defect causes the kidney qi to wane; as a result, the kidney qi fails to maintain the functioning of the bladder in restraining urine discharge, thus polyuria occurs.
Finished laughing yet? I can't get by "stagnated liver qi turns into evil heat". Ok, my composure is back.
This is taught AS SCIENCE. But my "opinion" that this is hokum is ignorant. What's that you say? "Evil heat" is an allegory for something? Ah, well, why not just use the actual term instead of something that sounds like demonic possession mumbo-jumbo. Oh, that's because TCM actually teaches that "EVIL HEAT" is a real thing. Please.
Shining_brow:
NO, you ignorant fool! It's taught as TCM!!! When are you going to get into your head that TCM is not analogous with western medicine??? And is clearly a topic which you are totally ignorant about!
yeah, it sucks that we English speakers use words like 'liver' and 'spleen', which have a particular meaning in English medicine, along with 'diabetes'.. but eventually, it was always going to happen... that's language for you.
But, TCM is NOT Western medicine!!! And as much as you expect... nay demand.. that any other form of medicine conform to your western materialism sciences, it's not going to!
Why is it called "Evil Qi" and not something else much more in line with your mindset? Simple - because your mindset (and western science) doesn't have an equivalent term! It'd be like trying to come up with a more scientific word for 'soul'... science doesn't have that, and so to the materialist, it's 'hokum'.
So, now that you've shown that you're real problem with TCM is the terminology*, we can end this discussion (obviously not a debate - you don't acknowledge logical points made by the 'opposing side'!)
(*and the insane idea of killing off rare and endangered species for ridiculous reasons - which I've said before, I agree with you on!)
MrTibbles:
No, my problem with TCM is that it's taught to people as medicine to treat other human beings. AS SCIENCE. You can get a degree in this bullshit. My other problem with it is people like you who claim that I'm an ignorant fool for not believing in this mumbo-jumbo. If I look at something from a scientific standpoint, I need to remove elements that can't be proven from the equation, like Qi. There is NO PROOF it exists, so basing an entire set of beliefs and dear lord, medicine on this principle is foolish in this day and age, and quite possibly dangerous. In the "bible" of TCM, the Huangdi Neijing, do you know how many recipes for potions and other HOKUM use cinnabar? Cinnabar. Which contains MERCURY. Because those ancient people thought it was good for you. Amazingly, due to SCIENCE we know it's not.
And aside from being an "ignorant fool", here is what your argument is:
There's something that can't be accurately named or described, so the Chinese invented a term and a concept for it, but it's completely unverifiable, so I'm ignorant for not understanding or believing it. Because it's different and not the same as western medicine! Western medicine is also called EVIDENCE BASED MEDICINE. So your main argument is that because TCM ISN'T evidence based and doesn't adhere to the concepts of fact based, observable causes and treatments, but rather on mythology, quasi-religious beliefs, and a made-up magic energy, the same rules don't apply.
Wow. Really? Look, I completely understand that thousands of years ago, before the actual way the human body works was understood, people had ideas of things to describe what they didn't really understand (see old western medicine about the 4 humors, bleeding, or any religion ever).
Now, with TCM, even though much of it's basis of understanding has been proven FALSE (ie the hot/cold concept vs germ theory), people like you are actively looking for different ways to explain it so it somehow "makes sense" and can be adapted to modern usage. What I don't understand is WHY. The goal of modern TCM is to validate antiquated, unproven superstitions - as if the ancient Chinese had some supreme knowledge that modern people have lost or unable to comprehend. Ugh. "Wet-damp fire throttle metal-spleen. Yes, this obviously refers to DNA."
So let's sum this up:
I'm "ignorant" about TCM because I don't believe in things without evidence or proof, such as magic energy, the Force, Qi, unicorns, and fairies. And this is BAD. Not believing in things without proof is bad and ignorant. Got it.
"Simple - because your mindset (and western science) doesn't have an equivalent term!" Yes we 100% do have an equivalent term: HOKUM. It means made-up non-sense.
Shining_brow:
Hey, you're getting close!
I don't think you're an ignorant fool for not believing in TCM.. that's never been the issue (and, if you look through all my posts on this, you'll see that!) I don't even have a problem with you pointing to experiments that fail to validate TCM... that's cool too!!
My problems are: you think it's ok to insult people who do believe in such stuff. Not just argue against them, not just point out those invalidations - but to insult them!!!
Also, while I agree that there is much in TCM's history that has needed change (and probably still does), the bad does not automatically invalidate the whole (logical fallacy in that...). Western medicine went through the same stuff - and still does!
You seem to be thinking that TCM is about some guy a long time ago who found something, and everyone ever since has just copied without thought... NO! It was investigated through trial and error.. and still is! There is money poured into TCM research, using (however they can) modern scientific investigations (which you've already indicated is a waste of money... yeah, smart thinking that... let's make sure TCM is never validated, so you can continue to say it's never been validated!) That, to me, is sheer ignorance, and foolish.. unfortunately, willful ignorance!)
Also, I call you an ignorant fool because you choose to comment on things that you clearly have no knowledge of! No real understanding... you just see words that have an association in your mind, and because that association has 'negative' implications in your mind. you feel it must be 'hokum'. "Oh, TCM says I have 'evil fire', and 'evil fire' in the western scientific mind is a riduclous concept, so it must be hokum in TCM... thus TCM is hokum!!!" Yeah, I believe that's called a circular argument!
RE: Cinnabar and the Yellow Emperor's book... yeah, awesome way to prove your argument.... Let's pull up a book that, while is standard TCM reading even now, uses methods to treat people that have been out of favour for... (not sure how long!) So, how long ago was it that Mercury was used for how many different ailments by 'modern medicine'?? If you're going to use an example, try to make it current!!! Otherwise, you're just going to look like an.... After all, if what you said had any validity at all, then the statistics from Mercury poisoning around the world from TCM administration would be staggering.. no??
Guess what - TCM is 'evidence based medicine' as well... It's a lot older than western medicine, but it's still there! Does it need improving? Hell yes! But to say that it's not is just.... (yeah, you know...)
I never said it "can't be accurately named or described", I said western science doesn't have a name for it! Quite a significant difference!! (much like, a couple of hundred years ago, viruses couldn't be accurately named or described... no??) And, quite obviously, until western science starts to find it (you know, by ... research) it's not likely to have those names or descriptions (which, again, totally suits your agenda...). For that matter, the concept of 'qi' has been 'verified'...just not accepted. (usually, what happens, is some scientist comes along with a pile of research data, says they've got something, and the scientific community poo-poo's it without actually looking at the data. "Qi? Oh, that doesn't exist, so your data must be wrong").
[quote]Now, with TCM, even though much of it's basis of understanding has been proven FALSE (ie the hot/cold concept vs germ theory[/quote] Ah, no! Again, you're showing your lack of scientific understanding (odd, for someone who is so much into such things...). Obviously, germs exist. But, just because germs exist, that does not "prove false' the concept of 'hot/cold'. Apples and oranges...
[quote]people like you are actively looking for different ways to explain it so it somehow "makes sense" and can be adapted to modern usage. What I don't understand is WHY. The goal of modern TCM is to validate antiquated, unproven superstitions - as if the ancient Chinese had some supreme knowledge that modern people have lost or unable to comprehend. Ugh. "Wet-damp fire throttle metal-spleen. Yes, this obviously refers to DNA."[/quote] Actually, I'm not 'actively looking', but anyway...
(very quickly, your example again shows your complete lack of knowledge of TCM... again, meaning you are a ... Not because you don't know, but because you constantly try to argue against something that you know nothing about... surely you can see the foolish in that??)
That's actually a really really good question, and obviously has an answer that you probably won't like!
But, go with me on this - and let's just see where it leads...why research TCM? Why try to validate those theories? Well, firstly, it is a medicine, and thus, deserves to be acknowledged as such. Yeah, I know, you don't agree... let's move past that to something really REALLY important.. What if TCM was eventually proven to work? AND such a concept as 'qi' is proven to exist - how is that going to change our perceptions of the world? Of humanity?? Of life??? Right now, you.don't believe in 'fairies' or 'magic' (and a range of other things). If 'qi' gets scientifically proven to exist, do your beliefs about those things also change?? How will western science react?? What will it mean for other scientific investigations?
[quote]I'm "ignorant" about TCM because I don't believe in things without evidence or proof, such as magic energy, the Force, Qi, unicorns, and fairies. And this is BAD. Not believing in things without proof is bad and ignorant. Got it.[/quote]
Nope! You're ignorant because you're attempting to argue something, and use examples from, something which you have no actual knowledge about :) THAT'S IT! NO MORE. THAT'S YOUR IGNORANCE (hopeFully, for the last time, I've gotten that through..)
If you don't want to believe something you haven't personally experienced, I'm all fine with that! And I would totally 100% agree (perhaps :p) But, when you argue something of which you've only read a couple of paragraphs of, and because they use terms that you've got associated in your mindset with 'superstition' and that's why you think it's 'hokum'.. then yeah, you're ignorant! It'd be like me trying to argue against western medicine because I once read that the originators of such medicine believed in the 4 humors, and used Mercury and leeches as a default cure!!!
If you don't 'believe in' TCM, because the research you've found hasn't validated it, cool! If you want to say western science has tried to find qi, and hasn't, and you're not going to believe any theory based on that until it's proven, then ok! I'm all for that! You've got an argument that has legs!
But, if your argument is 2500 years ago, they used a toxic plant as a cure, and they use words like 'fire' and 'evil' as part of their medical paradigm and that's just stupid... then you're really off base!
isn't it odd that the person defending TCM resorts to typical Chinese person attack in lack of actual argumentation ?
xinyuren:
if you are referring to shiningbrow's argument above, you seem to be a little ignorant too. He was not defending TCM as much as criticizing the other guy's basis for attacking it (as well as his method) and to be quite honest, I'm in agreement with him.
Scandinavian:
I agree that MrT has some gaps in his knowledge on TCM. yet it still seems to be a drastic change from arguing over the topic to be over the person (yes, I do see the irony in me bitching about that)
MrTibbles:
People used to think the earth was flat. If we based modern science on this "fact", would we still maybe get some stuff right? Sure, why not. But, the earth isn't flat. Now we know this. Why would we still try to base discoveries ASSUMING the earth was still flat?
This is my problem with TCM - the basis of it's foundation is flawed. It makes assumptions based on quasi-religion and superstition, using ancient ideas of the human body that have been proven not to be accurate. EVERYTHING in TCM is a treatment to unblock your "vital energy" because this is where illness comes from. Blocked Qi, or mis-flowing Qi, or a Qi imbalance. Well, I can't find proof of any Qi, so how the hell would I know if it's being treated? Where are the observable results and proof? Do antibiotics kill the bacteria and now my Qi is balanced so I'm better? But I don't know enough about TCM to question this! I just have to take it on faith and say Qi exists for the foundations of this medicine to be true. Sorry, I can't do that.
I have never professed to be a master of TCM, but I do know a decent amount about it - my wife is a TCM "doctor" - so I get to hear this hokum on a daily basis. The last cold I got wasn't due to a virus, it was due to eating crab (which is cold) the night before.
So again, unless you can prove Qi exists, claiming to be able to "treat" it is a joke. Here, eat this chicken soup, it nourishes your soul. OK, prove it. This is my problem with TCM. Are some things effective? Sure. I've said that before. Do I want to receive medical treatment from a guy who claims he knows how to fix my magic energy by taking my pulse and looking at my tongue? No.
This apparently is called "ignorance".
Shining_brow:
Scandanavian, this isn't he first time we've gone down this road... there's at least 2 other thread were MrT and I have locked horns... so taken in that light, you may see where I was coming from...
Chinese medicine is hogwash.
Get cancer and drink a rhino horn grinded tea drink and you'll be fine?
I love how to get over a cold[although in the west we don't even bother taking medicine for a cold], you should drink tea for 5 days straight. Oh, but your body over those 5 days will defeat the cold anyway? Laughable.
It's a joke. The Chinese applied for licenses to sell Zhong yao in London in the 80's and 90's. The UK government said 'ok, if you can prove that it's medicine.' They wanted the words 'Chinese MEDICINE' to be on the sign. If they'd just sold it as 'Chinese tea' there are no relations to improving health, but they wanted medicine. SO, they conducted tests, tried to cheat some professors and the system, and ended up being found that a placebo has exactly the same affect. They were refused the license.
Talking about diabetes[which I have] it has nothing to do with Qi, my father has it so it genetically passed onto me. I take insulin, which is ren zuo, man made. I would imagine if you drank some tea you'd die fairly quickly.
Some treatments actually do work. Others seem based on superstition. This is a natural result of living in a vacuum for centuries (the international scientific community has been working together during this time). I remember a time around the turn of the 20th century when germs and microbes "didn't exist". I'm glad we didn't decide to poo-poo western medicine just because our illnesses couldn't be explained properly back then. My point being, TCM's advancement has been retarded in the same way that most of Chinese culture has, due to China's unique social development. And we shouldn't be too quick to insult people who believe in it (We, in the West, who's medical system has as much to do with profit from drug conglomerates and politics as it does with pure science) and in many cases, I'd rather trust someone who is dedicated to natural care of the body rather than someone who just wants to treat my symptoms with drugs.
TCM ain't perfect by any means, but it shouldn't all be disregarded with one broad brush. There's some good stuff in there.
mArtiAn:
I agree with you entirely. As you said, you're glad we didn't poo-poo western medicine for its lack of understanding of germs and microbes back around the turn of the century, and I think it only wise that we don't poo-poo that which we don't understand now. I mean, if i'd poo-pood all the things I didn't understand in my life, i'd be poo-pooing all over the place. And where would that leave us? In a world of poo-poo, quite frankly, which is where I think we are right now, gosh darn it.
Ok, rant over.
Scandinavian:
Don't say TCM is not driven by profit conglomerates. Often people are offered some TCM after a doctors visit, not because it is needed, but because the doctor offers it.
I have had the following conversations with doctors after they spent a lot of time examining me for an eye condition.
Doc1: "So, I recommend you go to this hospital (notes down name) as they have a (device I do not know name of, but it turned out to be from Siemens) to be sure that the diagnosis is correct"
Me: "OK, so what is the treatment"
Doc1: "I recommend you come here each day for 10 days to get an injection"
Me: "OK, so how fast should I expect to be cured?"
Doc1: "Typically it will be some months, a check after 3-6 months is a good idea"
Me: "OK, will the injections speed that up"
Doc1: "No, but it is good to have"
Me: "Why, will they prevent a second attack of this"
Doc1: "No, but it is a good idea to get these injections"
Me: "Bye"
Doc2: " you just have to wait, there is nothing I can give you to you that will cure you faster"
Me: "OK, how long time should I wait"
Doc2: "Come back for a check in about 3 months"
Me: "OK"
Doc2: "Would you like some Chinese medicine?"
Me: "Why?, did you not just tell me there was nothing you could do to cure me?"
Doc2: "Yes, but I like to offer people some Chinese medicine in case they would like some"
Me: "No thanks, I will pass, see you in 3 months doc"
Both doctors established the diagnosis purely using western tools, both openly admitted that adding some TCM would not do anything beneficial.
Shining_brow:
My ex- had viral conjunctivitis... she had shots in her butt almost daily for a couple of weeks!
In the west, you'd get some pills and some drops....
Yeah, Chinese trained doctors aren't the best in the world - for ANY type of medicine!
(and, yeah, like everything involving money, there's a lot of crap you've got to wade through before you get something good here!)
