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Q: What do the Well Mannered, More Affluent Chinese People Think of the Others?
From zero table manners to yelling instead of talking.....you already know what I'm talking about so there's no need to spell out the laundry list of ill behaviors that some locals display.
But I'm curious, what do the well mannered, well spoken, well off Chinese people think of them?
Are they just as repulsed as the next international person or is it so normal to them that they hardly even notice?
I'd really like to hear from a Chinese person.
This post isn't to incite negative comments. I'm just genuinely curious.
Hongkongers cherish their borders.
DrMonkey:
@KimOnach There are regular onslaught of ...trolls... here, and some of the regulars here became paranoid and are a bit prompt at labelling newcomers as troll/wumao/shill. The dog barks, but the caravan passes on ;)
expatlife26:
I really like Hong Kong, it's my favorite big asian city.
It's a really fun place to go on a business trip, people are poised and confident without being so...rigid (looking at you Tokyo!)
And it's pretty well organized without being going too far to destroy any sense of fluidity of movement. (Looking at you Singapore!)
HKers maybe go too far in blaming all their problems on mainlanders, but they do stick out like sore thumbs. Again, HK is crowded as hell it's hot...it should be a horrible place but it's not because HK people are pretty cool. Add a bunch of pushing, spitting losers buying up diapers and using the MTR as a cargo service and it stops being that.
KimOnach:
Rest assured, I'm an independent troll. My only satisfaction is endorphin.
expatlife you're entirely right, this is exactly what I was trying to imply.
Good topic. Here's my own 1st hand account:
* My wife, from a farmers-turned-blue-collars family:
- She's very aware of the low social standards
- Her awareness expanded further after traveling abroad with me and working with other foreigners here
- She feels absolutely powerless about it, thinking that she would feel miserable and very very depressed if she does not shelter herself
- She would raise a finger only if *seriously* pissed-off (like an off-the-chart stupid remarks about girls marrying foreigners), and she's rather outspoken by Chinese standard
- She is a bit defensive when I mention the topic.
- Spitting, letting kids poop in the road side, etc etc disgust her and she complains about it, but less openly as I do
* My close colleagues, perfect examples of Sea Turtle ie. they studied and worked in USA for two decades, and were fortunate enough to have very well educated parents
- They are very aware of the low social standards
- With the employee, they (timidly) try to set above-average standards, encouraging/rewarding initiative, independent thinking, and discouraging petty behavior
- One (the big boss) see himself under a mission to set an example
- One of my colleague think religion would help (note : I'm as anti-clerical as it gets, not my opinion at all)
- They think there's a good middle spot of Western and traditional Chinese culture that would work well here to set high social standard
- They openly think that the power as it is in China, encourages the low social standard
- They will often mention the kind of stories we mention here (rancorous behaviors) during lunch, with much face palms.
- They feel powerless about it, but not as much as my wife, and will openly blame the power-to-be
There is no old money in mainland China. All the affluent people are one generation or less removed from the countryside, so cultural and behavioral refinement is spotty even among the high class society. I also would like so much to hear from a Chinese person. Most of the affluent Chinese I know are my wife's clients. Many of them look down on others with much less money, even though their behaviour is not any better.
As a supporter of socialism, it's with great regret that I have to admit that the 'nanny state' here is not having a good effect on people. They lack responsibility or accountability, and due to the system here, are not interested in imposing more behavioural values on themselves. They are taught from a young age that it is most important to conform to the group's norms, and gain acceptance from their immediate community. Since meeting people's demands and expectations is difficult and stressful by itself, there is no motivation to adopt civilized standards of behaviour. They only care if their immediately relevant group accepts them, then they're safe, and they don't give a flying frak what the rest of society does. It's my hope that people will come into their own when given more freedom to do so, by both gov't (less bullying& unfair enforcement of rules, less but more logical rules) and community (less '5000'-year-old norms, more adaptation, appreciation of quality over appearances).
Mateusz:
Well, I would definitely not call China socialist. The Party is accountable to the Party, not the people. Rigid class hierarchy still exists, and the working class are as much peasants as during feudalism. Meet the new oligarchy, same as the old oligarchy.
It's also not really fair to call the PRC a nanny state, more like an alcoholic step-parent that randomly takes a belt to the kids when on a bender.
coineineagh:
Agreed. The only relevant aspect is that individuals aren't expected to show independence, or even achieve. Everything is deferred to the group, be it family unit or or other. It gives comfort to know that you have no personal accountability, so it's hard to shake.
mike695ca:
A few reasons why @Mateusz is a giant piece of shit
1. He still references his 2nd hand political science 101 textbook.
Does he really think that this is the first time we have been lectured on the differences between current countries today and TRUE socialism?? People that do this are almost as bad as new Psych students.... almost. I really hope he is a fresh drop out. Because if hes 30 something still trying to show off how well read he is by referencing the most referenced part of the most douchey uni subject ever.... well thats pretty sad. ( trust me matty boy, if you are old, its best not to tell us here).
2. Hes actually not that well read at all.
His rant of how China is still a feudal state? Thats actually from the same chapters as an introduction... How do I know this? well there was a time that I was also a douchey youngin taking that class. The difference is that even at 18 or 19 I had enough awareness to know that people didnt want to hear how smart I thought i was. And to be quite frank, if your only gonna give us quotes from the coles notes, well, your just setting yourself up for failure.
+ 3 bonus points for plagiarizing The Who ( Wont get fooled again - meet the new boss, same as the old boss)
+ 1 giant back hand for working so hard to use oligarchy in a sentence.
3. He sure talks a whole lot for someone who doesnt actually have anything to say.
This is why he re-uses all of his great ideas in all of his posts hoping that no one will notice.
Example A - please see below.
(Stopping at traffic lights? If you can afford a car, then you're rich enough to not have to follow laws. )
Example B
http://answers.echinacities.com/question/it-cultural-thing-or-do-chinese-really-feel-no-shame?&showid=190125#answer190125
( rich lady driving BMW/ Audi blah blah blah )
Many more examples how rich people in nanjing or wherever hes hiding suck but I have work to do, so im not about to go back and search.
Plus the countless rants how chinese women are materialistic whore because he is sad and alone.
Add it all up and we have a know it all that doesnt know shit. = a dip shit.
Self awareness goes a long way my friend. See, I know im an asshole, so you dont need to say it.
coineineagh:
Chinese women are materiaistic. Rich people in China do suck: They lack empathy just like the rest of farmer's-mentality China, are rude and cruel because they can be, and everyone emulates them as the pinnacle of sophistication. As for your 101 comments - it seems you're the one who's definitely referencing those simple textbooks. Whether he does it is not conclusively proven. Your whole text here is nothing but a blatant ad hominem attack at a person because you don't like what he said. Perhaps because it reflects badly upon you? “To show resentment at a reproach is to acknowledge that one may have deserved it.” ― Tacitus
Affluent people aren't necessarily better mannered. Rule of law doesn't really exist in China. If you have enough money, the rules often don't apply to you (partly since you can bribe your way out of any unpleasantness, and partly because wealth often comes with government connections). When you know that you aren't bound by the same laws as the small folk, you often act accordingly. There's also the whole social class and face issue.
Stopping at traffic lights? If you can afford a car, then you're rich enough to not have to follow laws. And why should you stop for pedestrians (or, you know, refrain from driving on the sidewalk)? If they were your social equals, then they'd be able to afford cars.
Rich people also aren't to show basic respect to the waitstaff. Saying, "Please" and "Thank you"? That's a dangerous step towards treating them like equals... the shame! And don't bother to find a trash can. One of the schmucks who has to sell his/her labor will clean it up for you. I was once chastised for picking a wrapper off the floor of a restaurant, and told that the waitress will get it.
There is a very different view of "manners". You are obsequious towards your betters, treat those in your social class as equals, and treat your inferiors with disdain.
Shouting to the waitstaff would be seen as rude and unmannered in many Western countries, but in China, it's completely fine. They are to serve you, and especially if they are poorer than you, there is no reason to show them respect.
As far as responses when asking, I've gotten a few answers.
The most popular is "That's disgusting, but I don't say anything, because it's not my place to say anything" (or something similar). I don't know how many people actually feel this way, but most I've talked to agree that spitting is gross, so is smoking in enclosed spaces without consideration of others, dumping trash, pushing/shoving, and all the rest, are bad, and they disapprove. Note: I get this mostly from younger folks, student types who tend to be not affluent, more open minded.
I also hear the excuse that "It's a part of China." This isn't so much of an approval, or even excuse, more of a "God grand me the serenity to accept the things I can not change" sort of deal. It's less common, but happens. I've gotten this from a few of the "affluent types", when I commented about the people smoking where it was illegal to smoke (and clearly there were signs), and they all gave the "Well, this is China" excuse.
I've also gotten the excuse of "Poor people have no manners because they're uneducated peasants" from some of the upper class.
well, I have never noticed an affluent chinese person notice it one bit.
Axl said it best ~
'Welcome to the jungle
It gets worse here everyday
Ya learn ta live like an animal
In the jungle where we play
If you got a hunger for what you see
You'll take it eventually
You can have anything you want
But you better not take it from me
In the jungle
Welcome to the jungle
Watch it bring you to your shun na, na, na, na, na, na, na, knees, knees
I'm gonna watch you bleed'
Robk:
I wonder if Axl visited China before he wrote that song...
personifies China so much... even the "I'm gonna watch you bleed"...
Person falls off bike... people stand around video taping it lol...
Guns and Roses comes on the loud speaker.... "Welcome to the Jungle!"
diverdude1:
yep,, pezactly! 'tis the Theme Song of our lovely PRC~ if The Ax didn't come here he sure as heck still hit the head on the nail !
I always think of that little girl, barely more than a toddler, who got squashed by a car 2 or 3 times and people walked by her for about 20 minutes... wow w/ a capital w. 'gonna watch u bleed!'
Depends who the "others" are. If the others are wealthy and can b of some use to them they will be friendly and polite. Otherwise others will be ignored even if they are on fire.
