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Posts: 614

Shifu

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Q: What do you think of the tenth month thing (做月子)?

As I know,It's pretty hard for you guys to understand the tenth month thing(做月子)as there is no such a thing in western countries,But to Chinese people,It's VERY important.

My question is,will you support your wife to do it If you guys live outside China?

Feel free to share you ideas.

Thanks.

10 years 7 weeks ago in  Culture - Guangzhou

 
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Maggie:

 

In ancient Aztecan society they pulled out the hearts of sacrificial victims so that the sun would keep rising. I assume you would not support this practice now, even though you value the sun.

 

Does your disapproval for this tradition stem from the fact that A) You don't understand it, or B) It's superstitious nonsense from a pre-scientific era, long since discredited by science and rational thought?

 

Exercise, sunlight and basic hygiene are all necessary for maintaining a healthy body. We object to 做月子 because we are modern, rational people who understand a lot more about health than our fearful, superstitious, illiterate ancestors.

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10 years 2 weeks ago
 
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Hi Maggie,

 

做月子 is "pretty hard for us guys to understand" because it's irrational, pre-scientific nonsense based on primitive men's fear of childbirth and various other superstitions from a bygone era.

 

I wouldn't support any women doing that, whether inside or outside China. That said, I wouldn't marry someone whose understanding of the world cannot extend beyond her grandparents' "wisdom".

 

RiriRiri:

This.

 

Would it be too much to stop just assuming whatever "we guys" don't support is because we don't understand it?

10 years 7 weeks ago
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Samsara:

Ghaaar!

 

Spot on, RiriRiri. Anything "foreigners" don't love about China must be the result of them "not understanding" China's profound wisdom and deeply cultured behaviour.

10 years 7 weeks ago
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Scandinavian:

@RinRin. True that. "Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand" - HJS

10 years 7 weeks ago
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10 years 7 weeks ago
 
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Wht?

Samsara:

做月子 (Zuo Yue Zi) is a Chinese tradition (steeped in the same mystical nutbaggery as TCM) whereby women who give birth have to stay inside / in bed for one month, and not shower. It was also reasonably common in the past to cut women's hair off, because if you don't wash for a month, you tend to get various infestations.

 

Unlike most Chinese medicine, which does nothing, 做月子 is genuinely a terrible idea. New mothers need healthy activity and sunlight.

 

10 years 7 weeks ago
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Hulk:

1 month?

 

Most Chinese that I know are sitting in bed for the whole pregnancy, and after giving birth.

10 years 7 weeks ago
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10 years 7 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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?

mike168229:

I got it. I was confused by it being referred to as the tenth month.

10 years 6 weeks ago
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10 years 7 weeks ago
 
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This is why more Chinese women die in childbirth, and why so many of them require a c-section (yes, most Chinese women actually require this) so they don't die in child-birth. My wife didn't do it because I educated her before we got pregnant.

 

It's dangerous. It can cause blood clots which can eventually kill you. If they go to your lungs, you'll get yourself a pulmonary embolism.

 

In fact, a pregnancy group on QQ was up in arms about me telling them how it's dangerous. Do not participate in this stupid garbage unless you want to risk your life.

 

This is why you almost never see a pregnant woman walking around in China. They're all hidden indoors. It's colossally retarded. I'm sorry, but this is one aspect of culture that I absolutely REFUSE to accept.

 

To answer your question, no, I would NOT support my wife doing something that will hurt her and our baby. She knows not to do this now. Educate your women, guys... because most Chinese are full of superstition, and they'll drag you down with them.

Scandinavian:

c-section is  comon in China based on bad advise from doctors based on the fact they make more money in less time doing a c-section than natural birth. 

10 years 7 weeks ago
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Hulk:

But if you don't get enough exercise while pregnant, childbirth is extremely difficult.

10 years 7 weeks ago
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derek:

My wife is a relatively small, thin girl who didn't get the dreaded C-Section due to the fact that she was strong enough to withstand a natural childbirth. She is so thankful for that now that Heidi is 14 months and both are healthy and my wife 100% without unsightly scars. Hulk is bang on with this. I refused to accept the silly tradition and we are all better off for it. I did take a fair amount of crap regarding my decision but it's all water under the bridge now.

10 years 7 weeks ago
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Hulk:

We needed a c-section because my wife was in labor for 38 hours. I wasn't about to let her go to 40. I kept telling them to give her a fucking c-section, but they wouldn't listen. Finally they're like "uh... well, uh... she needs a c-section."

 

Now our daughter is bigger than most babies her age, and she's even wearing 18 month clothes. She's... 8 months lol.

10 years 6 weeks ago
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Scandinavian:

Funny thing. If you have a second child, in China it must be by c-section if the first birth was by c-section. The doctors are not trained to do natural birth after c-section (I am not privy to the details as to why that would be different, maybe the old cut could burst?) 

 

The ting about excersizing during pregnancy is very important to the chances of giving natural birth. Daily excessive throughout the pregnancy is key to natural birth. 

But the tenth month is about the crap that happens after birth, the crap before is a completely different story. 

 

@hulk. Bigger than average might not be an advantage. Depends on if it is fat or just general size. 

10 years 6 weeks ago
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Hulk:

General size.

 

Anyway, I thought this Zuoyuezi thing was referring to the crap that happens during pregnancy - my bad. It's still crap and I wouldn't allow it. My wife insisted on walking around after giving birth.

10 years 6 weeks ago
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sorrel:

unfortunately another reason why c-sections might be popular, especially after a second pregnancy here in China, is that the doctor could also have the opportunity to perform a hysterectomy unknowingly to the mother, especially in smaller villages where the population control police are vigilant.

10 years 6 weeks ago
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Hulk:

They actually did that to my first chinse girlfriend... they also did it to my mother-in-law, but they did that long AFTERWARDS.

10 years 6 weeks ago
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The concept is flawed. The woman will recover slower from the confinement. Moving, exercise is important to the womans health. Out into the sunshine, means vitamin d for mother and child, wounds heal faster, the moods are better. 

 

The diet restrictions in the tenth month is all carbs, no protein, no vitamin, it is the recipe for diabetes, birth depression and problems breastfeeding. 

 

If done to the fullest where the woman is actually in bed as much as possible you are also introducing the risk of blood clots in the lower part of the legs, which will then, when she starts to move, shake loose, go to the brain and cause a stroke. 

 

http://www.savethechildren.org/site/c.8rKLIXMGIpI4E/b.8585863/k.9F31/State_of_the_Worlds_Mothers.htm

 

Look at some of the numbers, e.g. for child mortality. Chinese mothers don't care for their children while they are "doing the month" And the grandmothers are, and I am going to be soft about it, F-ING useless at anything with children. 

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10 years 7 weeks ago
 
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"It's pretty hard for you guys to understand the tenth month thing".

 

Well, you can understand that in China, the 10th month thing is common and perceived as very important. I saw it first hand here, and in Vietnam too. Understanding is very different from accepting it. Why not accepting it ?
* It's harmful for the mother, as well explained by the guys above (blood clot formation, and slows down recovery from the birth)

* Not doing anything for 9 months seriously reduce your muscles. Less muscles makes the birth much harder, longer and painful. You would rather *exercise* during the pregnancy, to reinforce those muscles that will work hard to give birth to your child.

 

So I can understand a harmful practice, while not accepting it. I would explain to my wife that it's not a good idea. We already spoke about it before, I bring it little by little. I started to explain at what age we start potty training, at what age kids are taught to make silent night (2 months old, baby can sleep most nights without a cry, yup). My wife read some books on the topic, and sometime it bring the conversation, I try to explain my point of view.

Also, it's not that it's an old, traditional practice, that it's good. An old tradition in South of France was to throw a goat from the top of a church to bring good luck. It was old and very important to the people. But not wise...

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Simply put: my wife exercised as much as possible, she recovered quickly and regained her figure quickly. She had energy and didn't suffer any mood swings or bouts of exhaustion after the birth. Her friends are resentful of course because she didn't follow tradition. Two of her friends that gave birth within months of our baby arriving look tired, old and ragged and wore the pajamas every time we saw them. They scoffed at us and in time we even drifted apart if you can believe that. Petty crap.

Hulk:

My wife barely exercised, which contributed to her difficult labor. Next time will be different.


Her entire family was demanding that she should sit in bed for 10+ months and do NOTHING! She was torn between culture and science, but now she realizes she should exercise. She learns the hard way, lol

10 years 6 weeks ago
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Scandinavian:

I recently had dinner with several people. One of them a pregnant woman (or girl if you ask her parents) She showed up in jammies, she looked like shit, she had a bowl of porridge and when the waiter tried to pour tea for her, her mum screamed "SHE DOESN'T DRINK TEA" (in Chinese that is)

 

It's so sad, her husband was mainly concerned in sucking up to his father in law, but at least there was me at the table to walk around and serve her the only drink allowed, boiled water. Yum Yum

10 years 6 weeks ago
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Hulk:

no My MIL yelled at my wife for eating an apple while pregnant. She yelled at her for 30 minutes straight...

10 years 6 weeks ago
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Scandinavian:

@Hulk. At least she didn't touch cold water did she ?

10 years 6 weeks ago
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Hulk:

Yes, actually, my wife drank a LOT of cold water. We bought bottled water exclusively so we could protect her from polluted water.

10 years 6 weeks ago
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This is one thing that's stressing me out. I do want to have children with my fiance sometime down the line, and while she's usually forward thinking and modern sadly the Yuezi bullshit is one of the few things she still believes and I haven't managed to get through to her yet about how dangerous and stupid this is :(

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Hmmmm. This question completely ruined my sleep. I was simply pissed when I went to bed. 

As this is also a tradition that runs in my family, I have done some research on it, and I have consulted my dad, a practitioner of Traditional Modern Medicine and a high school mate who has a PhD in some nasty shit with the organs. Both were initially baffled by the fact that this is even a question. China has a better reputation out in the world than this. Similar practices was abolished at least 4 generations ago in my home country, my great grandmother did it pre WW1 when she gave birth to my grandmother, she lived in a small village, probably with slightly worse access to information than any Chinese have today. My dad said "I thought such things only happend in African villages built of elephant shit" Their medical opinion is that it is dangerous.... and they are only talking about physical health, mental health would be a completely separate concern.

 

Yuezi is a harmful tradition. Embrace other traditions, e.g. I think Tomb Sweeping is the best of all Chinese traditions. How nice is it to go and remember the relatives who are no longer among us, maybe tell our kids about their grandfather etc. Yuezi... serves no purpose other than to allow mothers to control daughters and to generally prevent women from ever becoming equal to men (or as equal as nature will allow) 

 

I'll bet, Yuezi is a time where the father of the newborn has the time of his life with KTV hostesses, because at home there is just depression, ugly hair and annoying mother in laws. 

 

Yuezi is a sign that the Chinese leaders don't care about the people. If they did, they would educate the people that modern ways are better, that seatbelts save lifes and that pissing on the street spreads disease. 

 

Yuezi is the foundation of flawed China. 

Hulk:

I have more thumbs for you.

 

It pisses me off, too.

 

Good thing the MIL had very little, if any say in the pregnancy process. We ran off to another province.

10 years 6 weeks ago
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Scandinavian:

Yeah, marriage happiness grows with the distance to the MIL, even my wife thinks this, but at the same time she is also hardwired to obey her mother. Generally she is happier with her mother is out of sight, they always bitch and yell at each other... man I miss my mum, better give her a call today. Despite being ten years older than my MIL she is in such better shape, mentally and physically. 

@Hulk. You can cut of an actual thumb and mail to me, that would be so much more meaningful than these virtual thumbs.... of course the likelyhood of China Post being able to deliver it is slim, might end up in someones noodles.

10 years 6 weeks ago
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wagon:

I'm fond of qing ming, as well.

10 years 6 weeks ago
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Hulk:

Yup... our happiness grows in distance to both sides of the family...

 

My MIL just got done yelling at my wife for 25 minutes for not being a "good enough mother." Yeah right.

 

She's so negative. The more I listen to her voice, the more I want to end my own life. Thankfully we aren't all together.

10 years 6 weeks ago
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lysmens:

. My dad said "I thought such things only happend in African villages built of elephant shit" LIKE SERIOUSLY!!!!!! SMDH!!! WHAT HAVE AFRICANS GOT TO DO WITH THIS? OR YOUR DAD HAS HIS OWN PERSONAL VENDETTA AGAINST THAT RACE???? THIS STATEMENT IS SO IGNORANT, DEROGATIVE AND WRONG ON ALL LEVELS! FOR STARTERS NO HUMAN BEING IN THEIR RIGHT MINDS LIVES IN A "VILLAGE BUILT OF SHIT!" NOT EVEN 'AFRICANS' OKAY???????!!! I THINK YOU COULD HAVE MADE YOUR POINT CLEARLY WITHOUT INCLUDING THAT RACIST COMMENT. IT WAS VERY UNCALLED FOR!

10 years 6 weeks ago
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ericsinchina:

African is a race?

10 years 6 weeks ago
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Scandinavian:

Don't be silly, African is not a race. There is only one race. 

 

lysmens must have a problem understanding an analogy made to a society where technology is not yet developed.

10 years 6 weeks ago
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GorgoSparta:

I'm from an African country and I found your statement hurtful but you probably don't care and from the sound of it, your dad wouldn't either 

@lysmens there are ignorant people everywhere, even as we speak there is someone somewhere probably saying the same dumb ish...don't let them get to you, a person can not rise above what they know(or don't for that matter)

10 years 6 weeks ago
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Scandinavian:

I am sorry if you find it hurtful. I do think that it is a fact that there are people living in huts built of elephant dung, and I also think this is actually because it is the best building material available to them and it is very environmentally friendly. In no way a generalization that ALL people in Africa lives in small huts. The equivalent would have been to talk about Eskimos living in hits of ice and snow, but I have no knowledge about their post labor rituals if any. Ice or dung, same same. 

10 years 6 weeks ago
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10 years 6 weeks ago
 
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@ Scandinavian 

Traditions are all very well, and some can be fun/meaningful: I enjoy watching the Dragon Boat races during Dragon Boat Festival.

 

But when it comes to health, and preventable problems, tradition should be questioned in the light of modern information. I have seen a healthy girl (a former post-grad student), transformed from someone very active to someone who looks much older woman after following the 'tradition'

the one child seems to take total physical energy out of women here, whereas many friends back home who have more than one child are as energetic and active both before and after their pregnancies.

Scandinavian:

Completely agree. Europe has lots of traditions that are long gone, such as throwing the potty contents out of the window. 

10 years 2 weeks ago
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10 years 6 weeks ago
 
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Yuezi is a tradition throughout South and East Asia and there are some good aspects, like the mother should take time to heal and it's great to have someone around the house helping out with cooking and tidying and an extra pair of hands for the baby. However, sitting in a room with no air con and not washing your hair for a month is pointless and depressing, not to mention the other health risks it poses. 

 

Not every pregnancy is the same. Some women will need a lot of time to heal, and some will bounce back pretty quickly. I think the worst part of the whole yuezi thing is the fact that people try to control the mother, and treat her like she's incapable of even walking around outside by herself. They should let her decide for herself what she can and can't handle, it shouldn't be anyone else's business 

Scandinavian:

it is just a medical FACT that moving and exercising means wounds heal faster, sitting still eating food with no vitamins, at best doesn't actively make it slower. There is NOTHING good about it which is why the tradition has die away in modern societies. 

10 years 6 weeks ago
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humbug:

 some people have more difficult births than others and physical exercise isn't possible for the first few days or even weeks in some cases. I'm not saying they should sit perfectly  still and eat porridge for a month but I think it's good for the mother to not have to do the cleaning, cooking, shopping etc whilst learning to look after a baby and healing from giving birth. It think it's probably a welcome relief to  a lot of people to have someone take care of them for a while. What I'm saying is that mothers should have the choice and they shouldn't be forced into confinement or feel pressured to bounce back immediately, and act like it's nothing, which some women in western countries do feel. 

 

 

10 years 6 weeks ago
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Scandinavian:

isn't that why mothers have husbands, to help with stuff, if you're saying the tradition is OK, then you are inadvertently saying the typical Chinese husband sucks. I do agree they are most often lazy fools who cannot do anything and purely rely on their mothers to come do everything, pathetic people. I can both wipe my own ass and change my own opinon. 

10 years 6 weeks ago
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humbug:

Paternity leave is a joke in most countries, here included. Fathers are given hardly any time to spend with their kid definitely not a month, and then they have to go back to work full time, and probably with a lack of sleep from having a screaming baby in the house.  I think some people would appreciate the extra support. It's not really about saying the tradition is OK or not OK, more that there are some aspects that are good, and like I said before, some that aren't helpful at all.

10 years 6 weeks ago
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Scandinavian:

the crappy paternity leave is just the more reason to ditch the tradition. The mother is completely incapacitated and cannot care for her child, in fact, she needs extra care so instead of having one baby, you have two. In modern societies, the mother is up and running after a few days, I have several friends who spent less than half a day in the hospital for delivering (second or more child) and were able to pretty much continue as if nothing had happened after a few days. 

10 years 6 weeks ago
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If we don't understand their traditions - does that also explain why many Chinese can't understand (accept, etc) science???

mike168229:

Confusing, isn't it?

10 years 6 weeks ago
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My wife and I have an agreement, we are not doing things the traditional way. We had a long talk, her parents are mad cause they can't control her anymore. Some traditions are good and nice to hand down from generation to generation. We Native Americans( aboriginals of the USA) have good traditions that we hand down to our children.

The good ones are remembered and kept , the ones that do not bring good to the family or community is discarded, or we just refuse to do those.

Personally it's a choice but most here in China aren't told or taught how to think outside of tradition.

I love my mom , but she does not  tell me what to do, she will give her opinion to me and let me be the adult and make my own choices.

Let the cards fall and lay where they may. 

Hulk:

We had that same talk. However, what good traditions do Native Americans have?

 

I grew up on a reservation. I mean, food stamp and firewater are cool, but not at this rate. lol

10 years 6 weeks ago
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Chinese society is about control. One of the means to control the masses is to keep women as second class citizens.
Women are weak. women need to retire at an earlier age because they are weak. Women should not be leaders because they are weak.
Maggie, pay very close attention to these facts.
A person carries another human being in them for 9 months. They suffer through the sicknesses that comes along with the task. They suffer through hours of labor pushing that human out of a tiny hole. Hurts like Pucking hell. This is before modern medicine and pain killers.
Does that person seem weak to you?

Another aspect of maintaining control is dependence. This barbaric tradition makes the family dependent on the grandparents.

Englteachted:

Thank you, you just gave me my Mother's Day card. 

10 years 6 weeks ago
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I can understand that in the past, there was probably a good idea at the base of this tradition (being at home with bub in the first few weeks sound preferable than being shoved back out into the field or factory immediately) but... just sitting around the house not showering, not moving, nothing sounds like absolute hell, and as the gentlemen and Sorrel said above, it just does not tie in with what we now know about the body's healing processes. 

 

Maggie, you live in Australia, right? You will get maternity leave if you have a kid here. That's enough! There's no need to isolate yourself from your community and friends in the name of an outdated tradition.

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Maggie. Do you happen to have a full description of what the tenth month entails, in English. I would think many on this forum don't know all the details. 

 

Also, how are your thoughts after reading these answers ? 

maggiegirly:

Unfortunately,I don't have them in English,I tried to find them,so that,I could show it to my husband,but I failed.

To be honest, I am kinda surprised after reading all the answers,It seems most of you guys don't understand or could not accept the tenth month thing. I was basically talking about the modern way 做月子,not the traditional way, you can do most stuff except you can not go out and touch cold water.

Luckily, my husband supports me doing it, as it's important to me.

10 years 5 weeks ago
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10 years 6 weeks ago
 
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The physical quality of Chinese women and Western women is different. We each most of vegetable and you guys eat beef and meat, much more than us. 

sorrel:

your point being???

how you account for 'western' women who are vegetarians or vegans (there are many of them) yet do not require this 10th month nonsense?

It is much healthier for a woman to be as active as possible after birth - that is what we are designed for: to be active to protect our child.

Being so inactive for such a length after giving birth is not good for long-term health: it weakens the body.

10 years 2 weeks ago
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Hulk:

Have a downvote, fanatic.

10 years 2 weeks ago
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DrMonkey:

What's the link between meat intake and pregnancy ? Also, when you say "Westerners", are you aware that the eating habits are very, very, very different between countries ? For instance, in South Europe people use olive oil, and eat as much vegetables as people does here, and they eat them mostly raw (less vitamin lost). In Nordic countries, people a lot of fish. Germany is much more pig than beef country. Vegetarianism is common in UK, Germany, USA, Australia, and so on, much more than in China. USA eating habits are very different from the European ones, which are themselves very diverse. Honestly, your comment make you sound like you are not much aware of cultures outside of Asia, let alone, outside of China.

10 years 2 weeks ago
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Scandinavian:

Racism or ignorance. The above is one or both. 

10 years 2 weeks ago
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10 years 2 weeks ago
 
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Maggie:

 

In ancient Aztecan society they pulled out the hearts of sacrificial victims so that the sun would keep rising. I assume you would not support this practice now, even though you value the sun.

 

Does your disapproval for this tradition stem from the fact that A) You don't understand it, or B) It's superstitious nonsense from a pre-scientific era, long since discredited by science and rational thought?

 

Exercise, sunlight and basic hygiene are all necessary for maintaining a healthy body. We object to 做月子 because we are modern, rational people who understand a lot more about health than our fearful, superstitious, illiterate ancestors.

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10 years 2 weeks ago
 
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I think it's representative of the fact that these people are seriously retarded.  The why of it is never considered.  Because to think is an unknown concept.  The hospitals and medical professionals are happy for the status quo to continue because they are just as stupid as the populace.

This Is China.....welcome to THE DARK AGES!

And good luck with that.

But it's more than just stupid...it's dangerously unhealthy.  And really stupid, too.

My god...however did they put a man on the moon?

 

Scandinavian:

they didn't put a man on the moon. 

10 years 2 weeks ago
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royceH:

Agreed.  But in their mind they could.

10 years 2 weeks ago
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Isn't this really done to give the father a chance to get out of Dodge?

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10 years 2 weeks ago
 
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A: If you renew your passport, update your bank with the new number, then
A:If you renew your passport, update your bank with the new number, then get issued a new bank card and try adding it to your WeChat wallet.
WeChat wallet doesn’t recognize that passport numbers can change, and you will lose access to it. -- Spiderboenz