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Posts: 3

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Q: What is everyone's opinion on TCM? Any experiences to share insights?

10 years 12 weeks ago in  Health & Safety - China

 
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Posts: 9631

Emperor

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Overall. It's a scam. I am not saying there are not parts of it that has an effect, but save you money and stay home and have a cup of water. 

 

TCM was re-introduced in China by the CCP, as an early attempt at soft power, to show the people they could get health care. Mr Mao himself died hooked up to whatever modern medicine could provide at the time. 

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10 years 12 weeks ago
 
Posts: 402

Shifu

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It all depends on the 'doctor' who is doing the TCM. Some are very good, many are bad.

Mostly, I have had some very good experiences and only a few bad ones. Be careful who you trust to work on your body!

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10 years 12 weeks ago
 
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A guy did a comic that explains *exactly* what I think about TCM
http://sci-ence.org/series/the-ghosts-of-woo-acupuncture

* TCM is based on mostly outdated knowledge
* TCM have no notion of dosage or measurability : how do you know how much active molecules there is in 200 g. of root of XXX ? It depends on where the root grew, depends on the conditions the plant grew, how it was dried or cured, etc.
* TCM can largely be explained by placebo effect.
* The greatest successes of TCM are obtained on hard-to-quantify things such as pain relief.
* When people are sick for real (ie. cancer, nasty infections like AIDS), they go for more rationale approach to medecine.
* When people are hurried, they go for direct antibiotics injection in IV (which is not good on the long run, google 'antibiotic resistance'), not TCM. How do you know if it was TCM or your body immune system that did the job ?

Scandinavian:

sadly some people go the TCM way for serious illness. Some because they have been convinced it will work, some because they don't have other options (due to cost) 

10 years 12 weeks ago
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DrMonkey:

Yeah... When I was living in Vietnam, some newcomers would be awed on how healthy the old people were, and then go on the marvels of TCM. The ugly truth is that the sick people just die of things that would be cured or managed elsewhere. Like, pretty much any cancer is mortal there, because very few can afford even basic treatments for it. What remains are indeed the few healthy old people. TCM... nope, selection pressure !

10 years 12 weeks ago
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Scandinavian:

This says a lot http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2011/07/26/toward-health-harmonious-life-china-stemming-rising-tide-of-non-communicable-diseases

10 years 12 weeks ago
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10 years 12 weeks ago
 
Posts: 18

Governor

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TCM massage hurts, but great. Important is, to go there regulary and the results are coming. Overcoming the pain at the end is not so difficult. I recommend Mr. Chang in the Easthotel in Dalianhe has fingers like iron, but he knows very well what he is doing.

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10 years 12 weeks ago
 
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TCM massage hurts, but great. Important is, to go there regulary and the results are coming. Overcoming the pain at the end is not so difficult. I recommend Mr. Chang in the Easthotel in Dalianhe has fingers like iron, but he knows very well what he is doing.

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10 years 12 weeks ago
 
Posts: 544

Shifu

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Yeah, I had an experience with it. A while back, I ended up in one of those Eastern/Western hospitals. They kept asking “Do you want to eat Traditional Chinese Medicine?” and I kept replying that I wanted whatever Western medicine is proven to work. They might as well have asked “Do you want to eat a Traditional Bowl Of Dicks?”, and I’d have been just as receptive (and to be fair, there bowl would probably have been as pleasant tasting, effective, and dick-filled as TCM). 

 

They hooked me up with IV drips, did a spinal tap (they used a machine to analyze the sample, but sadly, it did not go up to 11), and did other Western medical whatnot (I suppose the IV drips are mixed. The IV itself is Western, but the gusto of administering it definitely Chinese). 

 

The doctor talked to me about how to keep myself in balance (he avoided saying “Chi”… or “Qi”… or “Ki”… however you want to spell it, but same deal), and taught all about how to avoid “disharmony”.

 

I was also prescribed bags of “Medicine”, despite saying that I really didn’t want any, after the nurse botched an IV, leaving my hand swollen, and again when I was leaving the hospital. After in siting that I would prefer something proven to work, I got a passive aggressive lecture on respecting Chinese culture and the like. I asked was was in it, and only got “herbs” (I specifically asked for something without animal parts). When I asked about the efficacy, all I was told was  that it’s “herbal medicine” (the way he kept saying “medicine” was like he was trying to convince me, or possibly himself), and so not as harsh as western medicine. I asked my wife about the vagueness (No one says, “Go down to Walgreens and pick me up some American medicine.” You ask someone to get you for aspirin.), and she had no explanation beyond “It’s a Chinese thing.” 

 

Most likely, this is so the witch doctors can feel important. If you have medicine that is proven to be effective, and that come in standardized doses of standard ingredients (like the aforementioned aspirin), anyone can get cured by just ordering a box of it over the counter. If the potions have to be tailored to the patient, the balance of the patient’s “Stuff” and “Whatnot” flowing through them, well, then the doctor’s skill and knowledge will always be in demand. 

 

The “medicine” smelled like a mixture of basil, oregano, and evil, tastes worse, and was about as effective as expected. I did get an idea to set up a Traditional American Medicine practice, using snake oil tonics, bleeding, Granny’s Rheumatism Moonshine, and hunting the witches who are cursing the village with sickness. I wouldn’t have to worry about proving any curative ability, just claim it’s traditional, and anyone who asks too many questions is racist against Americans.

Samsara:

Excellent and suitably scathing response, Mateusz.

 

My main problem with Chinese medicine is that 15 tigers have to die to create the aforementioned bowl of dicks.

 

The TCM topic pops up with unfortunate frequency, and there are always Western apologists on hand with anecdotal "evidence" that TCM "works".

 

While Chinese people do suffer from state-enforced ignorance, it seems that a majority of people in the world, no matter how privileged their upbringing, believe in stupid things (virgin births, resurrection, Creation, astrology, faith healing, naturopathy, homeopathy, chiropractics...).

 

Having argued the rationality angle  til I'm blue in the face*, what I care about more is that endangered species are becoming extinct species because of TCM (and Chinese people's general love of torturing and killing animals).

 

* It doesn't even make a dent. "I got better and the reason was TCM." "I saw a strange light in the sky therefore it was a UFO." "I saw a beautiful sunset therefore God."

 

Sigh. Humans.

10 years 12 weeks ago
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Posts: 63

Governor

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For me, it was a lifesaver. I spent almost 2 years in the USA visiting several specialists with no results. I am currently being treated by a TCM medical professor and I have been in remission for over a year.

I will say that you must see a professional, I saw many TCM docs in small hospitals with little results before being introduced to my current doc. Also, if any doc tells you "TCM has no side effects"; run away.

TCM meds are medicine, not harmless weeds, and many of them have severe side effects that rival western meds. 

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10 years 12 weeks ago
 
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i have used acupuncture for a chronic shoulder problem due to an injury i got in a bike accident when a student. i find it more effective than the treatment i got from my local hospital. now it is more for preventing any serious problems from occuring in the future.

NOTE: TCM is not for every medical condition or person. I am lucky to have a trusted practitioner who speaks english. 

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10 years 12 weeks ago
 
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I swear by acupuncture.  I had a motorcycle accident years ago and had a pinched nerve that shot pain through my body every time I had to either bend over or reach over my head. Went to see the acupuncture doc with a translator and 20 minutes later I could touch my toes and dunk hoops without any discomfort at all.  I'm sold.  I don't know about all the herbal teas and other treatments but acupuncture is very real.

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10 years 11 weeks ago
 
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