By continuing you agree to eChinacities's Privacy Policy .
Sign up with Google
Sign up with Facebook
Q: What happens to my z visa if the entity that was planning to employ me changes their mind?
I signed a contract with a school and they had applied for my work permit. On Tuesday I received my z visa but my employer in China said they no longer wanted to employ me. Will they cancel my z visa or am I able to use it for another school who is willing to hire me.
6 years 6 weeks ago in Visa & Legalities - China
What a strange user name you have.
Your Z visa is tied to the company who sponsored you. So, unfortunately, you need to start the process all over again with another company who offer you a job.
Your local Chinese consulate will be able to cancel your current Z visa if you explain why etc.
Good luck.
Also, can you ask Mr Putin to refrain from (allegedly) using exotic substances in the UK? Stalins henchmen used an ice pick. Much less damaging to the local police than exotic chemicals .
icnif77:
So, unfortunately ... you are talking out of your buTT!
School cannot cancel Contract or Z visa without valid cause!
Why?
Only Contract signed by both parties (sponsoring Co.& foreign employee) entitles School to apply for WP and other docs. required at application for Z visa.
After Contract is signed by both parties, School is responsible to provide all benefits&obligations stated in the Contract as 'working hours', 'salary', 'apartment' and so on.
Same as party B cannot change an employer/visa sponsor after Contract was inked by party B.
ScotsAlan:
So icniff, you are saying, even though the OP is still in his home country, the school has to honour the contract?
icnif77:
Of course, School should honour the Contract and cannot say ''we don't need FT anymore!'' even if FT is still out of China. School and FT both signed Contract!
It is ridiculous statement by School, if that really happened! School spent money to get all documents and FT had to spend money, too (docs. certification, ME ...), before he/she can apply for Z visa.
Now, Z visa is in the pocket, FT bought return flight to China and .... School employed another FT most likely with cheaper pay employed under the table ... "We don't need you anymore!"
Step into the OP's shoes for a minute ....
School is responsible to pay full salary (even if FT doesn't work), supply an apartment and all other benes from the Contract.
What School need is Contract violation by party B (FT) to get off the signed&stamped Contract!
Did you forget my thread from Kaifeng, Henan, when I received full monthly pay despite I didn't see one student in the whole month, because School was unable to supply working time-table? After I received pay for the month of no-work, I resigned with immediate Contract termination and moved to Guizhou next day!
See my reply on the same thread.
Why are you replying anew on the double thread, anyway?
You opened the same thread 2nd time and this time wasn't the first time you did that. See the last Iron's thread. Are you blind?
ScotsAlan:
I get your valid point icniff. The OP might have resigned a post to take the China job. So the contract should stand. But the actual question was about the OP using an issued Z visa to enter and take a job with a different company. I consider my answer factually correct.
icnif77:
OP has valid Z visa, so she/he can (must) enter China in 90-days, and if party A doesn't want to employ her/him, he/she can most likely look for the new employer (with an agreement of present Contract signee).
Party A cannot cancel Z visa with reason ''we don't need FT anymore!'' and party A is responsible for all benes from the Contract even if party B (FT) doesn't work, until FT doesn't sign Contract with new employer.
FT isn't required to look for the new employer and submit new Z visa application! That is very important part at which your reply is misleading and wrong!
What if FT cannot find new Z visa sponsor ...?
ScotsAlan:
So OP arrivives in China with his shiny Z visa. Goes to the company that sponsored it and says 'give me my job and process my RP'. Good luck with that. The OP will have 30 days to find a new employer, convert his Z from one employer to another (how does that work), post 'I am stranded in China' on ECC. You will give him the SAFEA website. FFS. I insist my answer was correct.
icnif77:
'add-it': I insist, you make it clear: 1. 'How many times did you apply for Z visa?'! 2. ''What is the base of your suggestion 'look for the new Z visa sponsor ...'?"
Did you read that in any of the Contract law books or you are just talking out of your butt? ... I am asking for the clearance just because of the public record!
Contract example:
VIII. Breach Penalty
When either of the two parties fails to fulfill the contract or fails to fulfill the contract obligations according to the terms stipulated, that is, breaks the contract, it must pay a breach penalty of US $500 to 2,000 (or the equivalent in RMB).
If party B asks to cancel the contract due to events beyond control, it should produce certifications by the department concerned, obtain Party A�s consent, and pay its own return expenses; if Party B cancels the contract without valid reason, it should pay its own return expenses and pay a breach penalty to Party A.
If Party A asks to cancel the contract due to events beyond control, with the consent of Party B, it should pay Party B�s return expenses; if Party A cancels the contract without valid reason, it should pay Party B�s return expenses and pay a breach penalty to Party B.
Stiggs:
Sorry Icnif but I agree with Alan here.
You're probably technically right but who is going to travel to China to try and enforce that part of the contract while trying to find another employer to start the process again before the z visa expires and he's an over stayer?
Don't forget, he would be arriving with probably nowhere to stay because the school provided apartment would have fallen through, not knowing anyone, probably not speaking any Chinese, maybe not having a lot of money to support himself and not knowing how things are done in China.
OP would be much better off staying at home, finding a new job and letting the new employer get another z visa and take it from there.
icnif77:
School cannot abandon FT after he/she got Z and it's on the way or already in China.
Both of you who agree with each other, most likely 'take-in-the-ass' often. I don't!
And on the top that, I am talking out of my own experience .... and both of you don't!
Stiggs:
Yes Icnif, I know a school can't abandon a teacher after the z visa is issued. Schools also can't employ people with no degree or NNS or disregard a contract but they do anyway.
My point is this...
Let's assume for now the story is true and not an ECC staff member making it up.
So the OP arrives in China to a school that has already abandoned him. So no airport pickup, nowhere to stay, can't speak Chinese, no job or income,a hotel room to pay for and a visa that will expire soon.
It already sounds like a shit situation to me.
So he decides to fight the school, go to safea and all that. The best he can hope for is either a job at a school that doesn't want him and probably hates him by now, or a payout for them breaching their contract. If he's lucky he can find a job that will sort out his visa situation without him having to return home to do it. He won't have the luxury of being able to pick and choose a job though because the time (and probably money) situation is working against him so there's a good chance he'd end up in another crap school that takes advantage of him.
Now the situation just sounds like a Chinese nightmare to me.
Ok, he stood up for his rights and won but is that really winning, or is it taking one in the ass?
Why would you go through all that crap when you could just stay where you are and find another job at a better school then move to China with no constant hassles and drama, especially when the next job might have him needing to return home to do the visa stuff anyway?
As far as me taking it in the ass and having no experience with breaches of contract and needing to take it to safea...
The shortest time I worked at a school in China was four years, it was great and I eventually left for a better job . The places I worked at have all been good - I never had contract or visa issues, always left on great terms and I know I could easily go back to work for them again.
I've turned down job offers at shitty schools and worked at good schools instead. I've been lucky in that I haven't had to jump from shit school to another shit school and on to another shit school because of contract issues and needing a visa fast and I've never had to go to safea to try to get a school to honor my contract. I would consider going through that constant drama to be taking one in the ass.
I suppose our expectations in life and definitions of an ass pounding are different.
This is the new one, I've ever read about.
So, what would I do if that would be me:
1. You signed Contract with School, which is still valid unless in case of 'force majeure' (natural disasters or School ceased to operate).
There should be a clause in the Contract on how much money you should receive or pay (as penalty), in case either party cancels the Contract without the valid reason.
If I remember correct, penalty is in range of three monthly salaries or even higher.
Try to contact SAFEA (Foreign Expert Bureau), Chinese Gov. agency which deals with Schools and Foreign teachers.
If you are in China, enter 'SAFEA' in the search above for address and contact numbers of Provincial Foreign Expert Bureau and dial them and ask for advice and help.
You will also recive guidance on how to 'change an employer'.
I used them often and I've always received timely resolution of problems I had with Schools in China.
School in China (party A) CANNOT cancel Contract or Z visa without valid reason same as Foreign teacher (party B) can't!
What a strange user name you have.
Your Z visa is tied to the company who sponsored you. So, unfortunately, you need to start the process all over again with another company who offer you a job.
Your local Chinese consulate will be able to cancel your current Z visa if you explain why etc.
Good luck.
Also, can you ask Mr Putin to refrain from (allegedly) using exotic substances in the UK? Stalins henchmen used an ice pick. Much less damaging to the local police than exotic chemicals .
icnif77:
So, unfortunately ... you are talking out of your buTT!
School cannot cancel Contract or Z visa without valid cause!
Why?
Only Contract signed by both parties (sponsoring Co.& foreign employee) entitles School to apply for WP and other docs. required at application for Z visa.
After Contract is signed by both parties, School is responsible to provide all benefits&obligations stated in the Contract as 'working hours', 'salary', 'apartment' and so on.
Same as party B cannot change an employer/visa sponsor after Contract was inked by party B.
ScotsAlan:
So icniff, you are saying, even though the OP is still in his home country, the school has to honour the contract?
icnif77:
Of course, School should honour the Contract and cannot say ''we don't need FT anymore!'' even if FT is still out of China. School and FT both signed Contract!
It is ridiculous statement by School, if that really happened! School spent money to get all documents and FT had to spend money, too (docs. certification, ME ...), before he/she can apply for Z visa.
Now, Z visa is in the pocket, FT bought return flight to China and .... School employed another FT most likely with cheaper pay employed under the table ... "We don't need you anymore!"
Step into the OP's shoes for a minute ....
School is responsible to pay full salary (even if FT doesn't work), supply an apartment and all other benes from the Contract.
What School need is Contract violation by party B (FT) to get off the signed&stamped Contract!
Did you forget my thread from Kaifeng, Henan, when I received full monthly pay despite I didn't see one student in the whole month, because School was unable to supply working time-table? After I received pay for the month of no-work, I resigned with immediate Contract termination and moved to Guizhou next day!
See my reply on the same thread.
Why are you replying anew on the double thread, anyway?
You opened the same thread 2nd time and this time wasn't the first time you did that. See the last Iron's thread. Are you blind?
ScotsAlan:
I get your valid point icniff. The OP might have resigned a post to take the China job. So the contract should stand. But the actual question was about the OP using an issued Z visa to enter and take a job with a different company. I consider my answer factually correct.
icnif77:
OP has valid Z visa, so she/he can (must) enter China in 90-days, and if party A doesn't want to employ her/him, he/she can most likely look for the new employer (with an agreement of present Contract signee).
Party A cannot cancel Z visa with reason ''we don't need FT anymore!'' and party A is responsible for all benes from the Contract even if party B (FT) doesn't work, until FT doesn't sign Contract with new employer.
FT isn't required to look for the new employer and submit new Z visa application! That is very important part at which your reply is misleading and wrong!
What if FT cannot find new Z visa sponsor ...?
ScotsAlan:
So OP arrivives in China with his shiny Z visa. Goes to the company that sponsored it and says 'give me my job and process my RP'. Good luck with that. The OP will have 30 days to find a new employer, convert his Z from one employer to another (how does that work), post 'I am stranded in China' on ECC. You will give him the SAFEA website. FFS. I insist my answer was correct.
icnif77:
'add-it': I insist, you make it clear: 1. 'How many times did you apply for Z visa?'! 2. ''What is the base of your suggestion 'look for the new Z visa sponsor ...'?"
Did you read that in any of the Contract law books or you are just talking out of your butt? ... I am asking for the clearance just because of the public record!
Contract example:
VIII. Breach Penalty
When either of the two parties fails to fulfill the contract or fails to fulfill the contract obligations according to the terms stipulated, that is, breaks the contract, it must pay a breach penalty of US $500 to 2,000 (or the equivalent in RMB).
If party B asks to cancel the contract due to events beyond control, it should produce certifications by the department concerned, obtain Party A�s consent, and pay its own return expenses; if Party B cancels the contract without valid reason, it should pay its own return expenses and pay a breach penalty to Party A.
If Party A asks to cancel the contract due to events beyond control, with the consent of Party B, it should pay Party B�s return expenses; if Party A cancels the contract without valid reason, it should pay Party B�s return expenses and pay a breach penalty to Party B.
Stiggs:
Sorry Icnif but I agree with Alan here.
You're probably technically right but who is going to travel to China to try and enforce that part of the contract while trying to find another employer to start the process again before the z visa expires and he's an over stayer?
Don't forget, he would be arriving with probably nowhere to stay because the school provided apartment would have fallen through, not knowing anyone, probably not speaking any Chinese, maybe not having a lot of money to support himself and not knowing how things are done in China.
OP would be much better off staying at home, finding a new job and letting the new employer get another z visa and take it from there.
icnif77:
School cannot abandon FT after he/she got Z and it's on the way or already in China.
Both of you who agree with each other, most likely 'take-in-the-ass' often. I don't!
And on the top that, I am talking out of my own experience .... and both of you don't!
Stiggs:
Yes Icnif, I know a school can't abandon a teacher after the z visa is issued. Schools also can't employ people with no degree or NNS or disregard a contract but they do anyway.
My point is this...
Let's assume for now the story is true and not an ECC staff member making it up.
So the OP arrives in China to a school that has already abandoned him. So no airport pickup, nowhere to stay, can't speak Chinese, no job or income,a hotel room to pay for and a visa that will expire soon.
It already sounds like a shit situation to me.
So he decides to fight the school, go to safea and all that. The best he can hope for is either a job at a school that doesn't want him and probably hates him by now, or a payout for them breaching their contract. If he's lucky he can find a job that will sort out his visa situation without him having to return home to do it. He won't have the luxury of being able to pick and choose a job though because the time (and probably money) situation is working against him so there's a good chance he'd end up in another crap school that takes advantage of him.
Now the situation just sounds like a Chinese nightmare to me.
Ok, he stood up for his rights and won but is that really winning, or is it taking one in the ass?
Why would you go through all that crap when you could just stay where you are and find another job at a better school then move to China with no constant hassles and drama, especially when the next job might have him needing to return home to do the visa stuff anyway?
As far as me taking it in the ass and having no experience with breaches of contract and needing to take it to safea...
The shortest time I worked at a school in China was four years, it was great and I eventually left for a better job . The places I worked at have all been good - I never had contract or visa issues, always left on great terms and I know I could easily go back to work for them again.
I've turned down job offers at shitty schools and worked at good schools instead. I've been lucky in that I haven't had to jump from shit school to another shit school and on to another shit school because of contract issues and needing a visa fast and I've never had to go to safea to try to get a school to honor my contract. I would consider going through that constant drama to be taking one in the ass.
I suppose our expectations in life and definitions of an ass pounding are different.
Not likely they will. what exactly is the time line. You've got your Z visa. Are you back in China? The school has spent thousands of Rmb and many hours to get all those documents to get you approved for a Z visa. The PSB will be very interested to know what happened.
The school won't want to go through that process as the school will face allot of penalties as well as costing it its license to hire a foreign teacher (see the contract) Your Z visa gives you 60 days to do something. By the way, if your contract isn't real. Then the PSB will find out. This is something else the school won't want the PSB to know about.
icnif77:
I am with you on this one! School spent money for Z visa and now ...... It just didn't happened! BS story!
I am guessing, OP most likely wants to find easy way of off the signed Contract, because he/she found better paying job elsewhere.
SAFEA is the right place to turn at Contract disrespect, not PSB!
Contract must be real, because signed&stamped Contract is requirement at application for WP.
@Stiggs:
Don't you think shitty things as 'no airport pick-up at arrival' and similar don't happen?
But, once School sponsors WP and other matters concerning Z visa pick-up, School can't just say: 'We don't need you anymore ...', because if they do, they'll lose their 'laowai hiring license' beside monetary penalty.
School is dealing in such an example with Gov. agency (who approved WP) that none of the Schools in China is looking forward to deal with.
I usually got small problems at Schools sorted out just with Q to the Head: 'Do you have a phone no. of SAFEA?' and 'Do you know where they're located?'
If I wouldn't be so keen on complaining to Gov. about School's Contract disrespect, I would have takin'-it-up-the-ass at every single School I've worked in China.
I think, it is wise to dial Gov. and OP will receive help as I did many times about which I've always posted here.
You might didn't experienced similar problems in Chinese Schools as I did, but I got off and I happily posted here, so everybody else could do the same.
What thick me off is ''postings which aren't true'' as Allan's '' .... get new Z sponsor and apply for new Z ...'', which is misleading statement/advice by the poster who doesn't have any experience with similar matters.
You just went along for the ride with Scottish.
It would make me extremely happy if I could find School in China to work there for few years. The longest I've worked at one School was 18 months in Kaifeng Uni, and then I had to quit because of School's Contact disrespect.
I've seen a lot of China in 8 years, but who is looking for moving from one place to another every few months and all other BS you experience when you change your employer.
Hotwater:
"It would make me extremely happy if I could find School to work there few years. The longest I've worked at one School was 18 months in Kaifeng Uni, and then I had to quit because of School's Contact disrespect."
So OP is supposed to listen to the font of all knowledge, who in hi sown words has never lasted longer than 18 months in a job after 8 years in China?
You're forgetting something...the OP might have signed a contract but the one that is valid is signed after entiering china an dchopped by the company. Yes thiis school will have go tthe initial work permit authorisation but if they don't follow through with the rest then the OP is fucked.
On this topic you're wrong Icnif. What Scots and Stiggs wrote are far better advice to the OP (if it's not an ECC stooge post)
icnif77:
All you need to know is: ''I respect signed Contract 100%!" ... and I was keep changing an employers! Why do you think that happened?
The Contract signed before School's application for WP is valid and School must honour it until party B's violation!
School is also responsible to the Gov. for all happenings with FT, after she/he enters China.
It is shitty position for FT, if that would really happened, but Gov. would sort the matter in a heart beat.
School wouldn't be able to hire another FT for long time, so IMO this story is BS.
You are all standing behind practical matter and I am talking about 'value of signed and stamped' Contract.
At my last School in Guizhou, I was in real hired just for three months with 1-y Contract on offer. School was looking for Native English speaker, who would arrive to Guizhou from USA, CA, Ozz ... and then being laid off after 3-months for some School's shady reasons and be forced to return home. One call to SAFEA and I was able to complete the Contract ...
Stiggs:
No mate, I didn't just go along for a ride with Alan, I just happened to agree with him.
I really don't see the point in coming to China and going through all sorts of bullshit to fight a crappy school when the OP could just think himself lucky the school showed its true colours before he got there, move on to find himself a better job and start his China teaching experience in a decent school.
I know you saw a lot of bullshit and had to change schools a lot, and that obviously sucks, so wouldn't you say that when you see a school doing shitty things before you even arrive there it's much better to just forget about that school and find a better one? Why waste time, energy and money on a school you know to be a shithole?
icnif77:
I agree, it's better to find another School ..., but what about all things FT invested already to get Z? Now, you are telling me 'get another Z sponsor!'??
I see 'signed&stamped Contract' as an agreement between FT and School.
I have never violated the Contract in China and I simply demanded School behaves the same!
School's 'This is China' (and FT must behave as we tell you!) doesn't work in my place of mind!
Once paper is signed&stamped, I find it almost pleasurable to make School respect it ...
School can be shit hole, but once paper is inked, there are not too many ways around it, but respect the Contract! For both parties!
My point at this thread is 'School CANNOT change its mind on hiring of FT after Z is in the passport!'. Even since WP gets approved, School cannot say: 'We changed our mind!'.
Stiggs:
So your advice to OP is to fight for his right to work in a shit hole that doesn't want you there and is trying to break the contract already instead of taking his experience with them so far as a warning and finding a better school?
We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one dude, my happiness and job satisfaction is way more important to me than proving a point to some dishonest peasant school owner.
icnif77:
Yeah, I fight with last School which was a dump and they hired FT just for an enrolment purposes (3 months). Step into my shoes for a minute: ''You fly out of USA or UK for an English lessons and relatively high pay (12k RMB), free apartment and all regular benes. After 3-m, School is giving you Contract termination note with 'your classes aren't interesting ....''.
On the side note, when I posted Q about curriculum at Contract's offer, School promised 'students and FT will have book to work from..', which never materialised. I got book only after I talked to SAFEA ...'
Look, I read the Contract and after I sign it, I don't give flyin'-fork what do you (School) plan to be.
Chinese are negotiators (in different terms than we understand that in West) and every single School tried to pull some scumbaggery before Contract's end.
In Xinjiang, I would stay there forever. Everything was peachy: Contract was Beijing's sponsored, i.e. high salary with low working hours, huge apartment and similar.
Month before the end of Contract, School gave me a note in Chinese to sign. I could read only '500' or similar no. and 'yuan', so I asked my Chinese buddy for translation.
It was a yearly garbage disposal fee 
and with my signature I would agree to deduction out of my high pay.
Why would I do that, if Contract stated 'party A will supply free apartment and pay all utilities ...'?
Should I sign it, 'cause my pay was high? No, I read and respect the Contract! That's it!
Stiggs:
Well OP hasn't been back to comment, and I've seen him online since he posted...
I agree that this isn't something most schools would do. It's expensive and time consuming getting a Z visa and I'm sure the PSB don't like having their time wasted with schools changing their minds every time they find a better looking applicant. The whole thread just feels wrong to me.
OP, if you're still hanging around here and are genuine, read our different perspectives and make up your own mind.
no.. tht visa cant be used for workin' elsewhr.
as scotsalan mentiond rightly, bettr to go for a fresh applicatn wth new school.
