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Q: What has China done to you?
I am pretty sure everyone that comes to China will leave or has left a VERY different person than when they came here.
I think one of the biggest effects it has on people is that China seriously jades them. They become extremely negative (not really their fault as this could be considered a "realist" here in China) and just constantly complain. Perhaps they did this back home but it seems like a lot of people drop their personal morals and become indifferent.
But through this, China can teach you very important lessons. Learning to see things outside your own culture, growing a thick skin and the patience of a saint... are a few of them. You become much more resourceful as you have to fend for yourself.
Most people can be boxed into two types when it comes down to it :
1) China has succeeded in breaking them. They hate China, they hate Chinese and they leave (absolutely hating all things China) OR they continue to stay here because of the easy financial lifestyle. They totally isolate themselves.
2) China has not succeeded in breaking them, never really will... and this type of person just gets stronger and understand the patterns and uses them to their advantage. This doesn't mean they don't have BCDs or get pissed off... it just means they try to solve or prevent problems rather than dwelling on them.
---
So how has China changed you? Have China "broke" you? Do you find your patience for Chinese getting better or much worse? When you go home, do you find your tolerance has improved?
Today I was indirectly threatened with losing my job because I said something bad about China. Talking about how there was so much litter everywhere and that it would be nice if they stood up and told the people littering to quit being a dirty savage when they see it happen. As they told me how I could lose my job and that I should not say things about China. I then asked them if they mean that they intend to censor me, after about 10 minutes explaining censorship with the help of an English/Chinese dictionary they couldn't/wouldn't answer. They also would not condemn censorship in general after I asked them their opinion about it 10 times.
It's like DPRK here. Disgusting people. I hope WWIII hurries along...
so, the way PRC has affected me is making me wish for WWIII.
Bao'an, SZ. I can attest to authenticity of photo, because I took it!
philbravery:
Ohh Christ
it looks like every toilet in the city exploded at once
Green peace need to adjust their thinking and put this as a News headline
Ive seen cleaner flood waters than that
You would think that the local people would be ashamed of this but I bet they blame somebody else
rasklnik:
This reminds me of a silly conversation I had here...
I pointed out something bad about China and was told
"This is a developing country!"
I said, "yes, but don't you have a space program and nuclear weapons? That seems like you are either a modern country, or a pariah state like North Korea. I mean it has to be harder to put people in space than put trash in the bin, right?"
-Ugly looks and silence.
ScotsAlan:
Looking at the photo, its looks like most of that rubbish could be coming from a single household.
This is what gets me about China. Everyone blames the Government for everything, but many of the issues are the people. Yes, of course one can blame the behaviour of the people on the Government, but really, people need to take responsibility for their actions.
This whole, "if the rubbish is beyond the threshold of my property it's not my problem" thing really gets me.
When I go to the wifes hometown I see fields with tons of rubbish dug into the soil. Piles of burning rubbish everywhere. I mean come on, if I were ploughing a field I would bend down to pick out the rubbish.
My sister in laws family lives in the hills above GZ. They have a house at the top of a valley. It's an idylic scence, with a mountain stream and a fishpond.
Except, the latrine is on a platform jutting out over the fishpond. So they shit in the water where they grow fish for food, and the same water in which they wash their clothes. The mountain stream is polluted too. There is one house above theirs in the valley, but they have no pond so the owners of that house shit in the stream.
So what could be a water resource for the whole valley is destroyed by the people who live in the top house, just because they are too lazy to build a septic tank.
I suppose it all comes down to the money thing. If there is no money to be made, don't do it.
diverdude1:
@scotsalan:
your comment really cracked me up! u r one of the few people (laowei) I have ever met who now knows and/or acknowledges why I don't eat fish in china. Those fkn carp they pick as the #1 fish around here are first of all trash fish to begin with,,, and the fish ponds are filled with human waste !
Sorry for any of u newcomers here,,, but sooner u know truth, the better. chinese stock fishponds and veggie gardens with 'nightsoil'.
*yeah, I grew up in Scotland eating salmon that should cost a 1000pounds a kilo now... and my later life in Alaska with Halibut out of the North Pacific.
china carp is same as eating dog.
RandomGuy:
I was recently threatened to lose my job for telling the truth to a third party client about short notice and lack of planning on the part of the manager when I was asked about a project not being ready. Thing is locals can't do my job and this is why I was bought here in the first place. High demand, low supply, very few Chinese with the sufficient knowledge to take over my position. They are not in position to threaten me, yet they somehow think that they own me. Chinese employers and China are a joke.
-I have become more political, and I plan to be civic minded when I return to the US. Living in China shows us the result of living under a totalitarian regime.
-I have become very critical of liberal/white guilt thought. Yes, there are major injustices in all societies and places, but if you have to choose, most people from the developing world would rather live in the USA or Western Europe if they could. We must be doing something right.
-I have realized that people who say "Snowden/Iraq/ Racism" are really just doing a silly little distraction, and likely prefer to avoid issues, and usually are either angry non Americans, or self-loathing liberals of the chomsky model.
-I have great respect for the free people of HK and Taiwan, and even the crazies of South Korea. I hope these COUNTRIES along with Japan can continue to disprove the argument that" Democracy is Bad for Asians"
-There is always a choice, good and evil, truth and lies, the world is, and has always been, black and white, and those who argue for grey are the moral cowards, who want to have their cake and eat it to. Since Nixon we were told to engage China. What is the result? How has it helped the American People? How has it helped anyone OTHER than the Chinese? Why is Xi praising Mao not Deng?
Shining_brow:
"but if you have to choose, most people from the developing world would rather live in the USA or Western Europe if they could."
What rubbish!
Anyone with any sense would be moving to Australia!!!
(or Canada, or NZ.... ).
silverbutton1:
"How has it helped anyone OTHER than the Chinese?" Since you are so educated in politics, I find it amusing that you neglected to figure out that the globalists fared quite well from this arrangement.
nzteacher80:
So you're going back to the US to vote Republican? Whoa. China screwed you up big time.
I have developed a stronger sense of assertiveness which I considered to be rude or impolite before coming here. I don't think I would take that robust set of manners back to the U.S. But the very fact that I have been exposed to jungle like behavior here means that I'll probably be a bit rougher around the edges than I realize. I had previous exposure to third world types before and I had no idea how to deal with them. Their mind sets are really something different. Being here has sorta helped with that.
I think I also tend to consider others ulterior motives a lot more than I used to.
That at being said I really don't approve of this type of undeveloped uncivilized thinking ( if you can call it that) whether you're from China or from Colombia.
There are 2 types of people in the world.
Those that try to box people into 2 types....
Not really sure it has been China that made me this lazy.
maybe retirement and thinking I deserve to lie around and do nothing.
maybe my disgruntlement with Canada has helped me to sit back and relax in this somewhat odd place.
last night was pretty typical, big night out at relatives place..... great dinner, 10 nice people, treat me well. but we can't talk! very little real conversation and it does drive me back home to isolation and loneliness. Only my wife has any clue to what I say or do, but when they get yapping at the dinner table and I say "what?" ... there is little time for her to keep me informed.
I like it here... financially and culturally. They have fine family values, like the good old days back home. My family back home is just not so close anymore, big family so far drifted apart, making ends meet. Most of us just call 85 year old Mom, not much to each other ( 6 kids). Here they have aunts, uncles, cousins, and brothers, sisters, gramma'S and grampa'S that are pretty hard to trace to be actual blood relatives.... but still FAMILY. i like that.
And I see progress here.... where I see digress in most western countries... the extravagant party in the west is finished. Kind of doubt your average Chinaman will ever know the great fun I had in the 70's -80.s or even 90's, but I am quite happy to be here watching them try.
Boom or Bust ......... I think China has a decent equilibrium in mind for the future. good luck!
BHGAL:
funny thing is.... I always know when my name is mentioned, and it is often, when they are babbling....see a post of mine the other day...real estate ..... no doubt in my mind that it is a decent place to buy, now, and or in the near future .....if only it could be done like the west.
travel and experience is as good, or better, an education than any school.
Made me thick skinned. Able to resolve disputes. Diplomatic but also not afraid to speak out when necessary. Better people skills. I feel like a completely different person. It really changes people.
Having lived in several other countries before China. I can honesty say these three things about it, all negative unfortunately.
1) To me, China's culture is boring. This would include its people, and its cities. All of the cities in China are much more similar than different. Although there may be a bit of variation in the food, such as how spicy it is. it generally is same-same but different.
2) still stuck in isolationist mode. this is changing of course, but the change is slow.
3) too many darn people. nothing is more disheartening than trying to work your way through a tourist attraction that you thought would only be moderately busy, only to find out its jam packed with people. this crowding phenomena has been proven to have a negative psychological effect on most people.
ambivalentmace:
my chinese father-in-law was staying in chicago on a 10 day tour and he commented on how all the skyscrapers were different appearance and he could not find a copy of another building anywhere, the statement speaks for itself. the sad thing is he though this was strange and amazing, instead of a normal occurrence, change is indeed slow.
The honest hating the dishonest is universal. To me, calling this 'breaking' the honest sounds like the words of sleazy politicians trying to look impartial dancing in the grey area, to win votes from all sides. I suppose this is one of the reasons why many hate politicians, this is also what fake faces are all about.
Look what it did to Allen Iverson:
http://basketballbuddha.com/allen-iverson-trip-to-china-ruined-by-chines...
icnif77:
I'm keep thinking, how I still love my students
, despite I'm in almost constant connection with SAFEA.
However, I don't let it go easy. Iverson should get me as his 'agent for China'
.
Robk:
Holy crap, I read the entire thing. What a horrible experience...
China just outright humiliated themselves and used the typical bullshit control methods (bribery, threatening and then finally the victim/sympathy card). I feel sorry for Iverson. If I was his guide, I would have told him that these two clowns can't be trusted from the the get-go (right after the visa issue)... and I would have NEVER let him sign that crap deal for 1.5 million.
I would have immediately halted the tour and left those two pricks to jump off buildings together.
This is just shameful.
wSchuyler88:
Lmao, looks like China has something to learn from North Korea! Rodman got way better treatmet up there than Iverson did in China
icnif77:
Rodman most likely didn't report his story, but everybody gets the same/similar treatment in China.
After all teaching work with students, and finishing the Contract, get screwed by the employer for some mediocre amount of money.
Add 'million' to my very usual experience as an English teacher in China, and you'll got Iverson's treatment.
But, he still loves his Chinese fans, same as I'll continue with English teaching at another school in China and SAFEA's (Foreign Expert Bureau) number handy.
wSchuyler88:
They probably have your voice and name memorized over at safea ( is that a knockoff of IKEA?)
Quinn68:
Great article. Thanks for posting the link. Props to Iverson for a classy act under extreme duress. Cheating and lying are firmly ingrained in Chinese culture, and probably always will be.
RachelDiD:
I'm sure that the article was written by Iverson's "people," but it is highly believable (since he pretty much experienced classic Chinese business behavior, starting with the 'miscommunication' about the visa making his trip hell from the get-go). He comes across as a genuinely professional person, and his Chinese fans have lost a lot to those two sleezeballs.
ethos15:
Iverson may have missed a practice or two in his day but still this was very disheartening to read, but not a surprise after all I've read on this forum.
His loyalty to his fans was commendable, even when recognising the author of the article was clearly taking his side.
silverbutton1:
I read the article as well. Conclusion: Chinese dont understand the virtue of charity, its an alien concept to them especially when there are huge profits to be made...
- It made me aware of things I wasn't aware of before : civil society, freedom to make associations/clubs about anything, political rights, civic life, and more
- I don't take clean air for granted
- I'm much less politically correct
- My mind can survive high levels of bullshit of the "it's all a misunderstanding" kind
- My ability to separate appearance to how things actually work greatly improved
- Now, I love Europe. I used to think it was boring. Spoiled kid...
Eh, I would say that the two groups are people who work with the Chinese, and those that don't. If you do not have to depend on the people for basic things like visas and paychecks, it is easy to be insulated from the shittyness....if you do, you tend to see beneath the veil (and fast). It's not an ESL thing, either...it's actually the Western airline pilots in my city hate the Chinese more than anyone.
As for what China has done to me:
-Made me respect organized religion. I was raised in a Fundi Chistian home, and I hate everything about it. I seldom talk to my family because of what I went though...but even I have to admit that the Chinese have made me aware that an external moral compass is a good thing for society. These people have all the crap that Fundis have (sexism, lack of introspection, homophobia, exc), without a set of moral guidelines Stephen Hawking never lived in China.
-Made me critical of cultural relativist notions. Cultures may be different...that does not make the 'equal but different.' Sometimes, cultures are different in ways that have the people ready to throw family and friends under the bus so that they can pick through their belongings. For years.
-It has made me more mistrustful of people, and more ready to call out BS the instant it happens. The people here are really opportunistic, and if you give them an inch, they will try to take the universe. So, exactly the opposite of the West, if someone appears to 'screw up' here, it is best to not let things slide.
Today I was indirectly threatened with losing my job because I said something bad about China. Talking about how there was so much litter everywhere and that it would be nice if they stood up and told the people littering to quit being a dirty savage when they see it happen. As they told me how I could lose my job and that I should not say things about China. I then asked them if they mean that they intend to censor me, after about 10 minutes explaining censorship with the help of an English/Chinese dictionary they couldn't/wouldn't answer. They also would not condemn censorship in general after I asked them their opinion about it 10 times.
It's like DPRK here. Disgusting people. I hope WWIII hurries along...
so, the way PRC has affected me is making me wish for WWIII.
Bao'an, SZ. I can attest to authenticity of photo, because I took it!
philbravery:
Ohh Christ
it looks like every toilet in the city exploded at once
Green peace need to adjust their thinking and put this as a News headline
Ive seen cleaner flood waters than that
You would think that the local people would be ashamed of this but I bet they blame somebody else
rasklnik:
This reminds me of a silly conversation I had here...
I pointed out something bad about China and was told
"This is a developing country!"
I said, "yes, but don't you have a space program and nuclear weapons? That seems like you are either a modern country, or a pariah state like North Korea. I mean it has to be harder to put people in space than put trash in the bin, right?"
-Ugly looks and silence.
ScotsAlan:
Looking at the photo, its looks like most of that rubbish could be coming from a single household.
This is what gets me about China. Everyone blames the Government for everything, but many of the issues are the people. Yes, of course one can blame the behaviour of the people on the Government, but really, people need to take responsibility for their actions.
This whole, "if the rubbish is beyond the threshold of my property it's not my problem" thing really gets me.
When I go to the wifes hometown I see fields with tons of rubbish dug into the soil. Piles of burning rubbish everywhere. I mean come on, if I were ploughing a field I would bend down to pick out the rubbish.
My sister in laws family lives in the hills above GZ. They have a house at the top of a valley. It's an idylic scence, with a mountain stream and a fishpond.
Except, the latrine is on a platform jutting out over the fishpond. So they shit in the water where they grow fish for food, and the same water in which they wash their clothes. The mountain stream is polluted too. There is one house above theirs in the valley, but they have no pond so the owners of that house shit in the stream.
So what could be a water resource for the whole valley is destroyed by the people who live in the top house, just because they are too lazy to build a septic tank.
I suppose it all comes down to the money thing. If there is no money to be made, don't do it.
diverdude1:
@scotsalan:
your comment really cracked me up! u r one of the few people (laowei) I have ever met who now knows and/or acknowledges why I don't eat fish in china. Those fkn carp they pick as the #1 fish around here are first of all trash fish to begin with,,, and the fish ponds are filled with human waste !
Sorry for any of u newcomers here,,, but sooner u know truth, the better. chinese stock fishponds and veggie gardens with 'nightsoil'.
*yeah, I grew up in Scotland eating salmon that should cost a 1000pounds a kilo now... and my later life in Alaska with Halibut out of the North Pacific.
china carp is same as eating dog.
RandomGuy:
I was recently threatened to lose my job for telling the truth to a third party client about short notice and lack of planning on the part of the manager when I was asked about a project not being ready. Thing is locals can't do my job and this is why I was bought here in the first place. High demand, low supply, very few Chinese with the sufficient knowledge to take over my position. They are not in position to threaten me, yet they somehow think that they own me. Chinese employers and China are a joke.
China has given me perspective on the world. I've always travelled a lot, and probably seen more of the world than most. But passing by quickly on a holiday or business trip doesn't allow the world to sink in. Living in China for years does. And it also helps understand the rest of the world.
China has given me the world & thin women.
Beijinghahaha:
Agreed, thank you for your honest response to said question. Why else would we stay here but for the insane money and delicious women.
