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Q: What lessons can China learn from western immigration policy?
Immigration in the U.K tops 365,000 per year (population is 64,000,00, London is 44 percent white. Counter-terrorism spending reaches epic proportions.
As China develops what would your advice be in setting immigration policy for the future?
be bloody carefull who you let in
make immigrants assimilate and forget multi culture
be bloody carefull who you let in
make immigrants assimilate and forget multi culture
Keep China Chinese. Seriously, the most common name in England is Muhammad.
mattsm84:
What does that even mean? There are like 50+ distinct ethnicities in China.
mattsm84:
Korean, Russian, Mongol, Ubzek Uygur, Tatar, Tajik, Kyrgyz are certainly not Chinese ethnicities. And there are plenty of the others aren't recognizably Han--which is really what we mean when we say "Culturally Chinese" anyway.
hi2u:
It means in order to preserve Chinese society following Chinese traditions and Chinese way of life, don't fill China with a billion Indians.
fada:
Britain conqured the world and now your unhappy when all former citizens follow you home? You reap what you sow!
Hotwater:
You're "seriously" comment is bullshit! You've been reading too much Britain First rubbish!
Serious question for you....do you live in China? If yes, what are you doing here? (Working, studying, etc?)
hi2u:
A quick bing search for “most common name in England" gives multiple sources saying Muhammad and it's variants are the most common name, so exactly how is that a bullshit statement?
I work in China.
Hotwater:
@ hi2u. Most popular boys name in 2013 was Oliver. Source: office for national statistics, found on Wikipedia. Muhammad wasn't even in the top 10.
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/vsob1/baby-names--england-and-wales/2013/stb-baby-names-2013.html#tab-Country-Variations
I can't find data for the most common names in Britain but as other posters stated, the number of immigrants in the UK is actually 8.3% foreign born (from ALL countries, not just Indian subcontinent again!). Source Wikipedia.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign-born_population_of_the_United_Kingdom
So I'll say it again, you're comment is bullshit!
Now....you work in China. So YOU are an immigrant. If you have a problem with immigration to the UK what the hell are you doing in China? Sod off back to little England! If you think immigrants shouldn't be allowed in the UK then you shouldn't be allowed to emigrate!
hi2u:
@hotwater, tell me where I said that China should stop all immigration to China and kick out all immigrants. Do you not see the difference between controlling who and how many people come into the country and loosely letting in hundreds of millions of people into the country?
Most common baby name is not the same as the most common name, as it only counts the babies born in the country and doesn't account for the millions of people who entered the country, but it's not important to debate this.
mattsm84:
Do you know what it means when somebody calls something in politics a dog whistle.
The west really doesn't have a single immigration policy. Individual states do, but they are pretty varied. First, China is sort of a special case. It's multi-cultural as an immutable fact of its existence. It has 56 ethnic groups that speak up to 292 languages. So it can't really insist on a mono-culture. It can try to make its people more Han, or even insist on Mandarin, but the scale is just to large to make a mono-culture feasible. On the other hand, they're still very much a closed society. None of us could assimilate if we wanted to. Still, if they are going to keep investing in Africa it pretty easy to see how they could end up with a lot of immigrants. If that happens, best to ignore Europe and Australia and instead look to what works in the Americas.
Only allow in migrants with degrees from accredited universities, meaning a standardized world-wide test needs to be developed to set the standard for what constitutes a proper graduate of an academic institution. Obviously the Chinese can't be relied upon to create this.
This is necessary due to the erosion of standards caused by foreign students, dopey local jocks and corrupt university administrators who cater to them, subsequently destroying and undermining the integrity and credibility of the institution in order to make money. The only way I can envision fixing this is with some kind of oversight, and because the problem is worldwide, the regulatory body needs to be international. This should allow for the receipt of petitions from individuals anywhere in the world.
The second test should be one concerning finances. Will this person be a drain on society? If they don't meet the criteria for employment I stipulated above, they can invest capital in the country, but they need to disclose all means by which they acquired it, meaning all companies, trusts etc. held by the applicant must be disclosed. If there is a hint of any financially inappropriate behaviour, including business ethics, not screwing with people's holiday plans and the timely payment of employees, among other criteria like no embezzlement or insider trading the application should be declined. Applicants should be treated as guilty until they prove themselves innocent with this one, meaning if any details of financial impropriety arise after the application is approved and they aren't disclosed on the form they should be charged with fraud, have their assets confiscated and be subsequently deported.
This should apply as a universal migration policy throughout the world. If a person wants to employ you or receive goods and services provided by you and you have worthwhile skills and aren't some lowbrow dirge, you should be allowed to go anywhere you are needed. That's what living in a global economy entails.
If they can get this right, the world would improve dramatically from all of the positive migrations and sharing of skills.
The shit can stay home and watch fast and the furious 25 or whatever mindless shit it is that they love so much.
Hotwater:
So what about countries like New Zealand who want tradesmen (because they can't be arsed training their own) or the UK who want nurses?
Do you expect a plumber to have an accredited degree?
laowaigentleman:
NZ trains lots of tradesmen, but they all go to places like Perth.
Why do you think they can't be arsed training their own? They put lots of money into apprenticeship programmes, but everyone there who was a decent student wants to be a lawyer or an HR consultant.
Most countries have this problem, don't they?
I worked in construction before I went to uni in NZ, and many of the guys I met who were plumbing apprentices were completely hopeless. The apprenticeship lasted four years, but I think it was solely to allow them time to learn how to convert metrics to imperial measurements. Trust me, I'm not being flippant.
The education system is so poor in NZ, that those who can't get into uni wind up in these pre-trade courses with no-one in their right mind ever employing them when they graduate. How can I sound so sure, well my dad is an engineering and mechanics teacher at a technical institute in NZ.
I could have chosen to go to plumbing school, but I didn't want to cop spitballs to the side of my head and listen to some guy's headphones blaring Eminem for four years. Three years in China is preferable to that.
when i see how kids in Chinese classes play games, they immediately seek out ways to cheat, completely ruining the game. perhaps this is why China has arbitrary law enforcement, no tax collection from individuals, and all kinds of unnecessary monitoring: rules just don't work with compulsive cheaters.
immigration law in China might actually be effective in giving China what it wants: keeping people from 3rd world countries out/unwelcomed by skincolour ID. Laowai are "honest" in comparison, in that we first try to observe rules before resorting to cheating.
Immigration in the West is not designed to deal with non-western immigrants: it has rigid rules that we expect immigrants to obey. but immigrants from lawless countries will usually assume that the laws just indicate where the profits are to be had. then they break, bend or lawyer around the rules as a force of habit.
it's no coincidence that immigrants are heavily invested in illegal trade and drugs. the drugs trade in holland is a good indicator: marijuana is legal with restrictions, and suddenly the entire trade is dominated by white sellers, while the illegal stuff is still sold by immigrants.
in the past, i'd believe the claims that immigrants are denied legal business opportunities, and must resort to crime. but after seeing how Chinese operate and play victim, i'm no longer convinced.
laowaigentleman:
If I play a trivia game in class of boys versus girls in my class and it's the girls team's turn, the boys will yell out the incorrect answer.
The other day, I let a student run the game for me and he kept lodging the wrong answers because he couldn't distinguish their voices properly.
I wrote into the translator that their methods were cynical and opportunistic and they shouldn't use them. The Chinese teacher looked confused like she couldn't understand why I was upbraiding them for "working out" the game.
In an ideal world, anyone would be able to live where they want.
I really hate this classification of people by where they come from.
And why should people assimilate? For example, if Indians and Pakistanis were forced to assimilate into UK culture, we would have no curry houses. If Turkish had to assimilate, there would be no kebabs.
Culture should be preserved, not destroyed by the thought police who might feel uncomfortable living next door to a family from a different culture.
