ambivalentmace:

sorry i just realized that nobody under 50 would understand the nuance of my question, but in china you have to read between the lines.

laowaigentleman:

I'm thirty and I didn't know this, but I know about Kent State.

ambivalentmace:

china had their kent state show and after the show, the guilty had a concert from his wife to make them feel better

Shining_brow:

Also helps if you know a bit about American history...

Eorthisio:

I'm pretty sure he has uncensored internet in his home and office. A few years ago a scandal revealed that Shenzhen's mayor had so. There are two internets in China, they built a high speed train line from HK to BJ so linking HK internet to some house in BJ is a cakewalk.

ScotsAlan:

Another interesting thing about internet etc.... the IT boss at work told me the Government do not actually have an internal email system. Its all done with private email addresses. But high level stuff is done by paper. No email chains..

diverdude1:

if there is a con of spooning, I haven't discovered it.   oh, wait!  one downside is I dang sure get turned-on, then if she's not up for it, that sux. 

Lord_hanson:

diverdude1, are you married? Once you are married spooning means a dead arm, hair in your face and an unattended boner.

diverdude1:

lol.... good come-back.   (was married, but been divorced a long time)

diverdude1:

laowaigentleman:

And I would follow that question up by asking why he expects foreign countries to offer Chinese citizens things China doesn't offer foreigners?

You've got to go along to get along.

ScotsAlan:

Yup yup

dongbeiren:

yea, that would be a good one considering that other countries make paths to permanent residency and all

ScotsAlan:

Indeed. There is a myth that western democracy is best.

I disagree. I don't know what the best system is, but China seems to be doing ok.

I don't really trust any politician, and all political systems are flawed... except one. That of some ancient empire where representative were drawn by ballot, rather then being elected.  I had never heard of this, but an Irish guy told me about it last week, and it makes sense. It's a smart way to do it.
 

"Noooo", you all cry, " here goes the apologists Scotsalan again!!!!"

Well no. To get to a position of power, people need to lie.  To stand for election means wanna be leaders probably have to lie more than the average person.  Because they need the votes, and the only way to get the votes is to either be an amazing speaker able to sway people's opinions, or you need to be a liar.  There are not many amazing speakers about these days. Indeed, western politics seems to be so polarized now that it's actually just the small number of swing voters who decide who wins. The politicians need to lie to ensure votes.

In effect, in democracies you might as well just take the vote away from the left and the right (because they always vote the same way), and just give it to the small numbers of undecided.

No universal suffrage in China of course, so it logically follows that Xi has no need to lie.  It's a paradigm shift. His boss is not the people, it's what is considered to be best for the country and the world.   You can't walk up to him, proclaim yourself as a voter and demand answers to your questions.

To me, that's not a massively bad thing. He seams to be doing a good job.

"Oh Nooooo", the neo cons scream... " Scots said Xi is doing a good job"..

Well, actually he is. People are being brought out of poverty every day. Things are better for your ordinary Chinese than ever before. And this has all been done without bombs or guns. Pretty good I would say.

Lord_hanson:

@scotsalan, I have to agree with you. I see it all to often in politcs, they are scared of the voter. They need to do what needs to be done and if someone has a problem f'em. I have actually wrote to the government a few times suggesting an exam that must be passed before you are granted the privalage (not right) to vote.

ScotsAlan:

Yup Lord Hanson. Universal suffrage is a fantastic concept. But it is flawed.. My battle here is not againt China. Uk, America or Uganda, its against the people who have been brainwashed to think their home country is the best. We cant find the best system till the brainwashing stops. Of course its a stupid utopia, but why are people against seeking utopia ?

DrMonkey:

If China and Russia are self-confident, why both use heavy censoring, and silence any seriously contradicting voice ? The confidence of the schoolyard bully, who inspire fear to everyone but deep inside, knows that his family life sucks and he is overweight ?

xinyuren:

It's way too soon to be saying Xi is doing a good job.  Especially when his administration is so opaque.  You will see very soon what a good job he is doing.  There is nothing he is doing that hasn't been done many times over.  They have all resulted in failure and Xi's efforts will result in the same.  The rules are the same for everyone.  If you break them, there will be consequences.  And break them they must, because there isn't a many alive who can resist the temptation of power.

gouxiong:

Dear ScotsAlan,

I agree with your statement that the Westerners, for some strange reason, believe that their system is superior to the other one.

This is even more extreme when you consider that your chance to influence the real political and/or economical situation in your country is basically non existent ...

We all see that European system is highly inefficient, that Greece was accepted to Eurozone despite of their clear lie (about which the German and other governments had to know but exchanged it for Greek promise to buy the weapons from Germany and France) but we still for some really weird reason believe our system is better.  

We then see that China had risen from very very poor condition to very modern country (at east in the big cities) but we still refuse to recognize it as achievement ...

Strange ...

Never mind - China certainly does not care about handful of 'blinded' expats and it looks like that majority of these people did not show any due diligence to understand this country enough (it already starts with the language - if you are not really fluent so your chance to understand the country you live in is at best limited ...).

About Utopia, honestly I do not know. I am not religious guy and therefore I prefer to live my heaven (or hell?) now in here. I think we all hold our happiness in our own hands and our approach can influence that a lot ... 

gouxiong:

Dear DrMonkey,

I never said Russia and China are from my point of view perfect ...

There is probably a lot of things they can do differently ...

I just wanted to say that Russian and China government is supported by majority of the population (even though the situation in these two countries is totally different) and their system simply differs from the Western system (which by the way is looks to be slowly collapsing).

gouxiong:

Dear Xinyuren,

I think it's not too early to say that Xi Jin Ping is doing a good job - it's quite apparent. To which extent he succeeds we are really only about to see but already now he did more that majority of previous governments.

If you ask if he is 'clean' so probably not. But I do not find it so important. We say if you like to beat the dog so you will always find the stick ...

Even though I am not the Christian so I would pretty much agree with their statement - as per their deeds you will recognize them ...

An in this sense chairman Xi is  doing more than well

Shining_brow:

@Scots - the electoral system you are referring to was the original democracy - Athenian democracy. The citizens of Athens (being defined fairly narrowly back then, compared to now) meant being male, born in the city, of high enough class, and having served in the military. This last was an indicator that to truly have a say in what happens to the city-state, one must be willing to die for it! IIRC, while slaves weren't eligible, per se, if they did join the military and fought, then they could get citizenship,and thus could get voted in.

All eligible people's names were drawn by lot, serving for certain terms (I forget how long). If chosen, you MUST serve! (unless there's a really damn good reason not to!)

There was also another group of politicians, who got to their positions a different way. Basically, family money and power. Like today's House of Reps and the Senate, the rich guys had to get the agreement of the elected guys, for something to happen.

Enough history...

Firstly, I think far too much has been allocated to Xi than he deserves. The "achievements" listed, for the most part, actually came from predecessors. and, to be fair, aren't by those individuals themselves, but have to go through a whole pile of people for agreement, etc. This is not an absolute dictatorship like a monarchy! There is still the party. Secondly, this whole 'corruption' crackdown is hardly Xi being a saint. All he seems to be really doing is having a purge of his opponents, and throwing a propaganda spin on it to make his shit look like gold. You've also forgotten (conveniently ignored) various other crackdowns that have occurred so far in his reign, making him one of the most conservative (read, 'backward') Chinese leaders in a few decades.

Guoxiong, how much have you earned in the last few posts? "Yay, China is great, the west is dying"... yeah, read those before!

And, no, the western system isn't going to collapse any time soon. Sure, the EU needs to make some changes, and the US and Russia seriously need to learn to live and let live, but that's just what happens when a schoolyard bully meets someone willing to stand up to him.

If you're even remotely serious about any claims about 'the west', you need to show why countries like France, Norway, Sweden, Belgium, Denmark, The Netherlands, etc etc (and, of course, Australia and NZ) are doing just fine thank you, and have virtually ZERO chance of major change (politically or socially) ANY time within the next, oh, thousand years or so! Except, of course, in a way that would be diametrically opposed to the way China runs now...

gouxiong:

Dear Shining_brow,

As a matter of fact I also strongly hope the West will not collapse anytime soon. Nevertheless your statement about several selected countries, throwing into one basket apples and pears, is just false.

Apparently you are not European otherwise you would know that France actually is in big troubles - political as well as economical. Comparing it then with Norway who is swimming in oil sounds like form another world ...

I never said China is great and West is dying either. I just said that I consider Chinese system as more dynamic in comparison to the Western one and as such I believe the future is brighter for China unless Europe learns the lesson and stop spending more than is able to earn (what is current stage of majority of EU countries except of Norway ...).

It's as simple as that - if you earn 100 units so you cannot for decades spend 150 ... If you do (what is current majority of EU countries situation) so it cannot end up well.

And the economic crisis is far away from being over ...

Especially considering the hit Euro may get after Greece departure from Eurozone which looks to be more and more likely ...

nashboroguy:

WOW...I did not know that. I heard he and his family members have off-shore accounts storing millions or billions of dollars. So, I thought it was hypocritical for him to go after other Chinese doing the same thing.

DrMonkey:

His daughter at Harvard, at least, it's not a rumor :p For the money... Who knows ^^

BHGAL:

Enlightened now.... I'd ask him for his daughter. To have and to hold.

royceH:

I believe that 95% of Chinese studying abroad are leading Chinese lives and, so, are not being exposed to so called 'Western Enlightenment'.

Maybe Harvard is different, or she is.

DrMonkey:

@royceH My own experience of Chinese students in France : most of them arrived without a very clear idea of what to expect, absolutely not prepared, and cheated on their French language proficiency check. Parents got the idea to send there (they imagine it's less competitive than English-speaking country), and they just went. Some come with a genuine motivation (it can be something about French culture or wanting to be in a specific school like Polytechnique, for example), but they were the exception rather than the rule.

Then those students will live in a Chinese bubble at first, barely speaking any French. Most will fail their studies and go back home after a few years threading water. Some will hang-on and flourish after a year or two of adaptation. When they flourish, it's spectacular : they become self-confident, well integrated without rejecting their native culture.They start to have French friends, they take some French habits and know the basics of the culture. Those rarely come back to China. I don't know how it goes elsewhere.

laowaigentleman:

@nash

The figure I heard quoted from the NY TImes for the Xi family is US$376 million with $27 million in the Cook Islands.

This came from Ben Richardson's investigation, but it was noted that none of that money was tied to Xi, his wife or his daughter personally, but to his brother in law. Ben Richardson was a US China based correspondent who'd resided in Beijing for 20 years before having visa issues in 2012 and moving to Taipei.

Wen Jiabao's got something like US$1.4 billion thanks to his daughter's employment at JP Morgan under a pseudonym.

If you have a VPN you should look up "the eight immortals"