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Posts: 106

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Q: What's the real reason Western teachers are in China?

The obvious answer is to teach oral English. The Chinese education system thinks they can do the rest of English teaching better than us.

 

How about this view from  Stanley, P. (2013). A Critical Ethnography of ‘Westerners’ Teaching English in China: Shanghaied in Shanghai. London: Routledge that their de facto purpose is to “represent and provide contact with ‘the West’ and to validate Chineseness, defined against the foil of an Other”.

 

Further Stanley observes that the Chinese students may be “learning other, unintended lessons about foreign Others”. This may be a “warm and pleasant” experience for both Chinese and Westerners or it may not be. In fact Stanley’s view is that in the teachers’ university at least, the employment of foreigners “appears to reinforce cultural stereotypes, prejudices and barriers to understanding among students and teachers alike”.

 

I'm hoping for both serious and humourous answers here.

10 years 4 weeks ago in  Teaching & Learning - China

 
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I was teaching computer science at the university. There are a lot of funds, really easy to get, to attract and keep young, foreign academics in China. As was better paid as a post-doc in China, versus what I would get back home ! Those funds keep raising and multiplying. Why one is so willing to keep foreign academics ? Maybe to compensate for some huge, gaping hole that the local education system fails miserably at filling ? And increase the amount of international-grade publications ?

 

Some students (after the exam) mentioned they came at my lectures because they knew the teaching style would be not force feeding and rote learning. I think that Stanley guy is maybe a little bit too pessimistic. Teaching English is a business, and business with Chinese characteristics, which warp things in the most hellish ways. Yes, there is "a bit" of this attitude of "Chineseness superiority". But deep inside, while never ever saying it loud, many Chinese harbor a lot of doubt about this supposed superiority and crave for something else, that foreign teachers can bring. Hell, how much (educated) Chinese are so negative about China and its society ! 

ambivalentmace:

yes, sadly, the first time i taught at university, i was teaching a freshman class and senior english majors would sit in the class because they were not confident in their english abilities and about to graduate with an english major, but very few would actually tell me about their apprehension.

10 years 4 weeks ago
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instantkarma:

Good answer. I have had a few of these students, the ones that know that their country, education system and view of the world may not be the only one. Occasionally you meet a politically aware one too but it's more about wanting personal freedom, a better student-centred education that lets them think and be creative instead of rote memorisation teaching methods  and let's them have another point of view. Most of the 1989 T. Square student protesters were not strongly political, they just wanted more than the state was giving them

 

btw the USAcentric view of the world is just as bad as the Sinocentric

10 years 4 weeks ago
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expatlife26:

re: international journal publications. I read something really interesting, the Chinese are now #1 in publications in peer-reviewed journals by volume.

 

BUT, and a huge but, the statistic you want to look at is citations by others, meaning that your research was used by someone else in their research. And in that sense they still very much lag behind.

 

Im not a researcher myself, but my Dad has published a couple papers in his day, and what i've heard the locals are doing is spamming these journals with meta-analyses of existing studies. 

 

All the peer review process can do, is validate the methodology as appearing scientific. It doesn't make a value judgment as to "this is a valuable contribution to the sum of human knowledge" it just says "you met certain criteria that we've established to prove this a real study"

 

They've learned the superficial qualities of how to get a paper published, but they still aren't publishing anything worth reading.

9 years 40 weeks ago
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DrMonkey:

Yeah, there's a worldwide pressure to publish in academic research, it's called "publish or perish". It's fashionable to use metrics to manage projects: for researcher, it's publication volume. So the academic research labs tend to organize their work to maximize publication volume : don't try too wild things, try all things most likely to work, only low hanging fruits. Only if you are the rock star of your field, people will trust you your team to try things, and fund you. Again, it's an international tendency.

Of course, it's easy to make pure volume. Take the same experimental setup, change just a few little things for every batch of experiments, one paper per batch ! It's lazy and hid useful information beneath walls of text. Publish about barely-above-noise results. Publish in your own journal or the journal of a friend, where only the same clique of people publish. Take something already done, makes minute changes, change the acrononym, and here you go, a couple of publications. But never ever try something really wild, I mean, c'mmon, taking risks, and spending months failing on the bench ? Nah... I would say that China just follows an international tendency, but they have a social mindset that amplifies it. Being underpaid, or paid according to the output volume certainly does not help.

9 years 40 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

trouble is, outside English teaching, a lot of the hired foreign experts get burdened with expectations that befit the abilities of magical good-quality men frpn Nice-thingsland. the only true "expat" i met was a guy hired from Siemens to get some system working: he was supposed to get it working without thesoftware, and the wrong hardware to even run the software. his home office said he was on external cpntract so he was on his own, and the Chinese contractor gave him nothing that he needed, except "make it work" in more threatening tones. suffice to say he was close to a nervous breakdown. real experts avois Chinese employers for good reason. that's probably why so many positions in that university remain open; they're not feasible jobs. they're basically "fix-all-my-myriad-problems-for-slightly-above-average-salary-you-magical-man"

8 years 42 weeks ago
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10 years 4 weeks ago
 
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the astonishing fact that i can drink cold water and still be alive, or that i can eat an ice cream with my coffee is bound to change the whole evolution of china for years to come.

Scandinavian:

uh, I think I need to run out and try a "coffee + soft ice suicide" attempt

10 years 4 weeks ago
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mike168229:

Oh! I'll have to try that. My colleagues heads will explode.

10 years 4 weeks ago
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bill8899:

I don't deserve to stand in your shadow.

10 years 4 weeks ago
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icnif77:

Greeks drink ice coffee. Similar size as US 'ice tea'! Coffee with ice cream is considered 'adult dessert' in S. Europe.

10 years 4 weeks ago
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BHGAL:

I baked an apple pie ... hot out of the oven  ... daughter in her room "studying" or "playing" with her phone.

I added 2 scoops of ice cream to the personal delivery, and got told I was absolutely "nuts"     hot and cold together???  ...crazy man!!!!

8 years 42 weeks ago
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10 years 4 weeks ago
 
Posts: 3256

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I was teaching computer science at the university. There are a lot of funds, really easy to get, to attract and keep young, foreign academics in China. As was better paid as a post-doc in China, versus what I would get back home ! Those funds keep raising and multiplying. Why one is so willing to keep foreign academics ? Maybe to compensate for some huge, gaping hole that the local education system fails miserably at filling ? And increase the amount of international-grade publications ?

 

Some students (after the exam) mentioned they came at my lectures because they knew the teaching style would be not force feeding and rote learning. I think that Stanley guy is maybe a little bit too pessimistic. Teaching English is a business, and business with Chinese characteristics, which warp things in the most hellish ways. Yes, there is "a bit" of this attitude of "Chineseness superiority". But deep inside, while never ever saying it loud, many Chinese harbor a lot of doubt about this supposed superiority and crave for something else, that foreign teachers can bring. Hell, how much (educated) Chinese are so negative about China and its society ! 

ambivalentmace:

yes, sadly, the first time i taught at university, i was teaching a freshman class and senior english majors would sit in the class because they were not confident in their english abilities and about to graduate with an english major, but very few would actually tell me about their apprehension.

10 years 4 weeks ago
Report Abuse

instantkarma:

Good answer. I have had a few of these students, the ones that know that their country, education system and view of the world may not be the only one. Occasionally you meet a politically aware one too but it's more about wanting personal freedom, a better student-centred education that lets them think and be creative instead of rote memorisation teaching methods  and let's them have another point of view. Most of the 1989 T. Square student protesters were not strongly political, they just wanted more than the state was giving them

 

btw the USAcentric view of the world is just as bad as the Sinocentric

10 years 4 weeks ago
Report Abuse

expatlife26:

re: international journal publications. I read something really interesting, the Chinese are now #1 in publications in peer-reviewed journals by volume.

 

BUT, and a huge but, the statistic you want to look at is citations by others, meaning that your research was used by someone else in their research. And in that sense they still very much lag behind.

 

Im not a researcher myself, but my Dad has published a couple papers in his day, and what i've heard the locals are doing is spamming these journals with meta-analyses of existing studies. 

 

All the peer review process can do, is validate the methodology as appearing scientific. It doesn't make a value judgment as to "this is a valuable contribution to the sum of human knowledge" it just says "you met certain criteria that we've established to prove this a real study"

 

They've learned the superficial qualities of how to get a paper published, but they still aren't publishing anything worth reading.

9 years 40 weeks ago
Report Abuse

DrMonkey:

Yeah, there's a worldwide pressure to publish in academic research, it's called "publish or perish". It's fashionable to use metrics to manage projects: for researcher, it's publication volume. So the academic research labs tend to organize their work to maximize publication volume : don't try too wild things, try all things most likely to work, only low hanging fruits. Only if you are the rock star of your field, people will trust you your team to try things, and fund you. Again, it's an international tendency.

Of course, it's easy to make pure volume. Take the same experimental setup, change just a few little things for every batch of experiments, one paper per batch ! It's lazy and hid useful information beneath walls of text. Publish about barely-above-noise results. Publish in your own journal or the journal of a friend, where only the same clique of people publish. Take something already done, makes minute changes, change the acrononym, and here you go, a couple of publications. But never ever try something really wild, I mean, c'mmon, taking risks, and spending months failing on the bench ? Nah... I would say that China just follows an international tendency, but they have a social mindset that amplifies it. Being underpaid, or paid according to the output volume certainly does not help.

9 years 40 weeks ago
Report Abuse

coineineagh:

trouble is, outside English teaching, a lot of the hired foreign experts get burdened with expectations that befit the abilities of magical good-quality men frpn Nice-thingsland. the only true "expat" i met was a guy hired from Siemens to get some system working: he was supposed to get it working without thesoftware, and the wrong hardware to even run the software. his home office said he was on external cpntract so he was on his own, and the Chinese contractor gave him nothing that he needed, except "make it work" in more threatening tones. suffice to say he was close to a nervous breakdown. real experts avois Chinese employers for good reason. that's probably why so many positions in that university remain open; they're not feasible jobs. they're basically "fix-all-my-myriad-problems-for-slightly-above-average-salary-you-magical-man"

8 years 42 weeks ago
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10 years 4 weeks ago
 
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Perhaps many young university grads who can't easily find a job back in the West come here to explore China's employment options and teaching is just a convenient "door opener". Once they get here they find it hard to leave I think.  For single foreign guys China is heaven on Earth.

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10 years 4 weeks ago
 
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For me: to get the fuck away from my problems, and to learn Chinese.

 

Back in the U.S. now, though. Never really could escape my problems, but China helped a lot... helped give me PTSD.

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8 years 42 weeks ago
 
Posts: 548

Shifu

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There are many reasons to this answer. I think, some of the most common are:

1. Gap Year in life
2. Jobs
3. Adventurous spirit
4. Interest in Asian societies and culture
5. Money
6. Personal and social inequity
7. Disheartened with home country
8. Spirit led
9. Wife searching
10. Fresheness and newness to life

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8 years 42 weeks ago
 
Posts: 548

Shifu

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There are many reasons to this answer. I think, some of the most common are:

1. Gap Year in life
2. Jobs
3. Adventurous spirit
4. Interest in Asian societies and culture
5. Money
6. Personal and social inequity
7. Disheartened with home country
8. Spirit led
9. Wife searching
10. Fresheness and newness to life

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8 years 42 weeks ago
 
Posts: 548

Shifu

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There are many reasons to this answer. I think, some of the most common are:

1. Gap Year in life
2. Jobs
3. Adventurous spirit
4. Interest in Asian societies and culture
5. Money
6. Personal and social inequity
7. Disheartened with home country
8. Spirit led
9. Wife searching
10. Fresheness and newness to life

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8 years 42 weeks ago
 
Posts: 2855

Emperor

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I just came for the free disposable chopsticks.

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8 years 42 weeks ago
 
Posts: 52

Governor

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Life here is rather easy as long as you keep your mouth shut and don't make any trouble. This country is a lazy foreigners paradise! I love it!

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8 years 42 weeks ago
 
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Governor

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Adding to the commentary of a year-old post:

 

1) As a Western EAP teacher, I gross the equivalent of $60.000 US a year in China, not including housing and flight allowances which are generous. That said, and given the cost of living in this miserable country, I save about 80% of my earnings which I export to my country in the West in anticipation of retirement some day.

 

I can't do that in the West. I might save 15% or 20%. if I am so lucky.

 

2) Nothing more to say. No prurient, social, cultural interest in living and working in a developing country - East or West or... Africa (which is kinda in the middle...)

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8 years 42 weeks ago
 
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Because I can't find a job back home, or whatever pleases them to hear.

 

You know what is most funny in China? Those insecure local boys who have got nothing better to do than gossip about the laowai, "he must be a loser", "halloooowww" *giggles*.

The foreigner smiles for he makes more money in a month than they do in a year, runs his own business aside from his teaching gig, lives in grand luxury and gets the best girls around.

Who's the loser now?

 

China is great, Chinese women are great, I have nothing against the government, it's some of the local boys with their pre-conceived ideas who are annoying.

But hey, I can't blame them for being jealous of my awesomeness wink

silverbutton1:

Sadly, Its not only the "local boys" that think this way. Some in the middle class think this way too, but its also due to being insecure as well. Oh well.

8 years 42 weeks ago
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8 years 42 weeks ago
 
Posts: 928

Shifu

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Does this inquiry come with a fog machine and mysterious conspiracy music? Perhaps even a spooky host like the guy from unsolved mysteries.  " Tonight, on Foreigners in China- Mysteries, why are foreigners REALLY in China?"?

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8 years 42 weeks ago
 
Posts: 759

Shifu

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"The obvious answer is to teach oral English." Nope. The obvious answer is they come for the great food, air pollution, gobs of people everywhere (subways, tourist attractions, etc.), and the constant staring. We foreigners really like it when the Chinese stare at us, it makes us feel like we are a celebrity.

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8 years 42 weeks ago
 
Posts: 380

Governor

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I escaped from the corporate rat race and became bored with life in the West.  Now enjoying Chinese life before I can retire in the not too distant future.  Living in China is a cultural challenge that pays well, isn't too hard and provides beautiful girls to stare at all day.

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8 years 42 weeks ago
 
Posts: 352

Shifu

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easy money

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8 years 42 weeks ago
 
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Emperor

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OK, time to tell the truth. I had to leave my homeland. 

I robbed the local corner store. Planned it and everything, bought a Beiber mask and brought a big bag to carry all my loot, and man let me tell you I hit the mother load. I scoped out the place the night before, new shipment of candy, candy candy. They were full up.

I walked in, looked around - no one there, it was 3 am - and went for it! 

I stole all their M&Ms AND Skittles! Stuffed them all in my bag.

To prove how hardcore I am, cuz that's how I roll, as I left, I yelled "Woohoohooooo Arsenal SUUUCCCKK ..." 

And I tripped on the curb, M&Ms and Skittles everywhere. Even bruised my hand a little. Dude rips off my mask. He knows me. WTF is he doing going to the store at 3am? I lost my rep and my fortune, all on tape, they have videos all over those stores, man, you dig? And that dude recognized me, wtf it is 3am?!?! Ruined.

So I hid out and left town the next day. I can never go back. 

All true. Are you happy now?

 

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8 years 42 weeks ago
 
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Answer of the DayMORE >>
A:  "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "S
A: "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "Shenzhen agent can connect you with an employer, who's authorized to hire waigouren ... and can sponsor Z visa." It's not like every 10th person you meet in Shenzhen's hood can sponsor work visa ...  The only way to change from student to labourer visa is just a regular way by: 1. Finding an employer, who'll apply for an Invitation letter; 2. Exit China and apply for Z visa in your home country's Chinese embassy; 3. Enter China in 30-days after Z visa was stamped into your travelling instrument ...As I am aware, you won't be able to switch to Working permit by remaining in China....,so make ready for a return to your home .... -- icnif77