ScotsAlan:

I tried to engage. But I was shot down in flames from day zero. I tried to figure it out. I tried to mend, I tried to be fair, but no matter what I done, or did not do, it was not good enough. I ended up not wanting to look at this site any more. What attack will I have today. I went offline for weeks. I found myself not able to look at ecc unless I had loads of beer onboard. And all of this on a website with everyone mad by definition (living in china after all), and in a position where one wrong decision could result in a cup of tea at the local police station... Wow. Coin was spot on. I should have kept my mouth shut. The problem was not the user mods, the problem was that I was a user mod. Left wing and all that. But I believe in honesty. Being a mod conflicted with that. I have been in a bad place over the past few months. It really messed my head up. Not because of me going power mad. But because my sense of fairness was subjected to ridicule. And with little support from... I wish ECC all the best. Its a fantastic forum. The best in China. But its not for me anymore. Sorry Grumpy Cat.

sorrel:

In fairness Scots, the whole 'use-mod' concept was a (if you excuse my language) half-baked, cheap assed and ill-advised way to fob off the responsibility of a job that should be done by someone impartial and for a fee, and I appreciate that it was very unfair to ask a poster with their own opinions and experiences to moderate everything while participating on their own behalf. 

It was doomed to failure regardless of who was nominated as whoever they were would have been harassed by other users, as impartiality implies not getting caught in the day-to-day banter.

I would certainly not have seen the offer of this position as an 'honour'.

Anyone who has been on this forum for a while as i have been has witnessed how far things have gone in terms of allowing fakes and wumao's continued butt-hurt whining, and how this affects more sincere and helpful posters.

If you are going to set up a site with the purpose to invite participation, and offer incentives, be they jackets or torches or whatever, at least have the integrity to follow through and not stick your head in the sand at the first sign of a challenge.

At home any business i know, and i know quite a few owners, engages with customers every day through their site, so all customes can see.

This is basic business practice.

Yes, i know, this is China.

ScotsAlan:

I see your point sorrel. And your point is totally justified in that I answered this question as a reply to your answer rather than start a fresh answer. I am not looking for excuses, or allies. I just want somewhere to vent. I wont vent here anymore. But I will stay on as a poster. Any visa info I know of I will post. I posted a new question tonight. I will vent on wechat from now.

expatlife26:

yeah the token accounts like Delphine, nicebrice and hal are bothersome. And I posted about it and a couple times my comments were deleted which doesn't exactly support them being organic posters or even run of the mill local trolls. Like for example Howwhywhen i think is a local troll as opposed to a random question mill account.

And I dont even have a problem with random question accounts to get discussions going. Nothing wrong with that whatsoever. It's the mean-spirited anti-foreigner/western questions that are so creepy. Like the site itself is being disrespectful to the community because it generates traffic to insult us and get us defensive.

I said in my own post an expat forum cannot be a safe space for the most easily offended person who turns up. For example while this forum isn't half as toxic and racist as some of the other ones out there, this is still not a good place for a thin skinned local. Just as i'm sure some forums for Chinese living in the US wouldn't be for tons of thin-skinned americans. We all post here at our own risk in terms of our sensibilities and that MUST include every user that turns up here. This is a internet forum, nobody is required to be here and I think in trying to make this inoffensive for those it doesn't cater to it's driven away the people it does cater to.

Shining_brow:

I'm genuinely curious - do you both (Sorrel & ExpatL) think that wumaos and ECC accounts should be banned?

In reference to some of the obvious stuff - it's no worse than the anti-China stuff that gets posted regularly... so I'd see it as a double-standard. We can drop shit on China, but they can't drop shit on us.  If it's really pathetic, I ignore it. If it's another "China is better than the US of A' I'll ignore it.

Recently, we've had a lot less overtly nationalistic Chinese crap (with one exception.. who called himself a Czech!!)

I don't think those posters bring the forum down in any way. They are too few, and the responses too many to do that. And too many other posts to focus on.

The User-mod job was politicised when it shouldn't have been (well, actually, it wasn't - it was just attacked, and sometimes politics was used as an excuse).. It was also made extremely personal.. As Sorrel said - it wouldn't have really mattered who it was - they were going to come under fire by someone (and, in fact, they WERE under fire - well before Scots came out... showing just how irrelevant who the person was!)

TIC... divide and self-destruct.

expatlife26:

Hey Shining,

I wouldn't say it is a double standard to oppose anti-expat/western sentiment on a forum where the topic is answers to questions for expats in China.

What if this was a fan forum for Game of Thrones or something. You can have members saying "that episode sucked" or "Shows going downhill" or whatever because they are speaking as fans in a fan forum. But somebody shows up saying "Game of thrones is gay ur all fags" "Xena warrior princess kicks game of thrones ass!' etc. then yeah you can ban that person.

This isn't like a public institution of justice that has a duty to weigh and balance and give a platform for all sides to voice their opinions equally. Someone who explicitly hates expats and/or the countries we come from doesn't belong here. 

And flip it around...without looking i'm sure there are tons of english language forums for recent muslim immigrants to the US. Forums full of mostly reasonable people trying their best and asking questions like "Wheres the best halal shop in east pittsburgh?" or whatever. If I hate muslim immigrants and go and ask questions like "Are muslims really all misogynist trash?" "Are we ruining America?" then the good people of that forum have every right to call for my banning. Even if they are being critical of americans, calling US girls whores or saying american guys are pussies. It reflects more on me that I go looking for trouble online than that a bunch of frustrated losers blame their problems on america.

So no, it's not a double standard. It's like saying on a Yankees forum that Red Sox fans who hate the yankees have as much right to post as anybody. This is not a public institution.

Shining_brow:

I would say it's a double standard if you're calling for someone to be banned for such posts! (depending on the phrasing...)

I noticed a couple of years ago that threads like "Why are Chinese all so stupid?" were 'harmonised'. Should they have stayed? If it was "Why are Americans all so stupid?", should that stay or go? If the first stays, but the second goes, then yes - it's a double-standard (even if you can find ways that ''justify' it!)

JonathonSteele was soundly hounded out (and there was some pretty toxic stuff on his). Should it have stayed?

Same question really comes down to trolling - posting just to get negative responses (which is why I found it odd that the CTFU guys were consistently banned... other  than blatant advertising, there was nothing inherently wrong with their posts!)

IMHO - "GoT is for fags - you're all gay" should be deleted (maybe banned after a few). "Zena rocks, GoT sucks" should stay... and let the downvotes overflow... (yes, I am a bit PC

expatlife26:

Shining, do you really think the comment that "got is for fags" should be deleted? It's an example of an outrageously shitty, hostile comment that a troll would make to disrupt a forum which should result in a ban.

it's not what I think or feel in any way shape or form, it's a discussion of the kind of person who doesn't belong on a forum and the kinds of things they say to get members riled up which includes using foul offensive language.

expatlife26:

you know what? I misunderstood you shining. You were also talking about banning in the context of the fan forum based on offensive language, I thought you were saying deleting my example here, shouldn't post before my 2nd cup of coffee.

I get it. And I agree with you, ignore what I said above. Have a good one.