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Posts: 3292

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Q: Which countries citizens are legally allowed working visas as English teachers?

The last I recall, English teacher working visas were limited to only citizens of UK, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa. However, they were planning on including Ireland as well. Have there been any other countries added to the list since then?

 

I am not talking about whether you think a country should be on the list. I am just asking about the countries the government actually specifies.

 

EDIT: I am not interested in whether people are working illegally by sneaking past the rules. I just want to know which countries are officially recognised by the central government as English native speaking countries, preferably with some evidence.

11 years 9 weeks ago in  General  - China

 
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Only, Liaoning and Sichuan Province in China have Provision or requirement, English teacher must be from big 5 (Native), in order to grant him or her Working permit. Similar Law applies in Taiwan, Japan, S. Korea, and few other Asian countries.

 

Everywhere else in China, it is decision of PSB, if they will grant Working permit to FT. There is catch to this Provision, too:

I am Non-native teacher, hired by Helen Group in Hangzhou (Z visa), and sent to Kindergarten in Yingkou, Liaoning, with Working permit from Zhejiang.

I resigned from Kindergarten in Yingkou (School Contract violations), and get job in Training School in Dalian, Liaoning.

I was issued new FEC and Residence permit (yesterday) by Dalian PSB. 

 

As I understand, Non- native FT can obtain Residence permit in Liaoning and Sichuan, if FT already has Working permit from other Province in China.

If School in Liaoning would apply for Z visa, Working permit, and other necessary documents for non- native FT, documents wouldn't be granted, because FT is not from big 5.

 

I should add, I didn't really read Chinese Law about that. These are conclusions from my experiences as FT in China.

boomsticks:

Not sure about the two Chinese provinces in question, but there are droves of Irish teachers (legally) teaching in Taiwan, Japan, South Korea...

11 years 9 weeks ago
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Traveler:

Icnif: I think Helen of Hangzhou is telling you great big lies. She is well known for that.

 

The requirement for native speakers is probably all provinces. She has just managed to bribe someone to allow you to work., or used a non-teaching organisation to get you a work permit illegally That is another issue.

 

You cannot legally work in Liaoning with a work permit from Zhejiang. You said you were refused a work permit in Liaoning, but you are now working there illegally in defiance of their decision? That sounds like asking for trouble, or that you do not understand the laws in China..

11 years 9 weeks ago
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icnif77:

It is not true, all Provinces in China require English teacher must be Native English speaker. Only Liaoning and Sichuan Province require FT is from English native country for FIRST Working permit application. I am working as ESL teacher in China since May 2009. I got my first Z and Working permit in Tianjin in February 2011. 

I don't see posters in known of legal issues in China anymore here, butt.... I can assure you till 2012, only two Provinces in China required FT to be Native speaker for the first Working permit.

Helen owes me salary for October 2012. I don't know Helen, and I have never talked to her. I worked for them till October 2012, when I change employer. I wrote few treads about Helen, and my happenings at changing employer under Z visa.

All my posts here are my personal experience as FT in China. Currently, I am in Dalian, Liaoning with Working permit and Contract till November 2013. I am Non-native English teacher.

@Boomstick: Irish are considered as residents of UK, or native UK teachers. Don't tell Irish what I said, butt.....Japan, Korea, Taiwan consider Ireland as UK, or English Native speaking country.

11 years 9 weeks ago
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Traveler:

Interesting. I am wondering why only these two provinces have the FT native speaker requirement, and nobody else. Can you recall where you got the information? Do you have a link to confirm it?

11 years 9 weeks ago
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boomsticks:

Haha @Traveler indeed, though I've given the benefit of the doubt in assuming he meant "as are the South Africans" rather than "as they are South Africans"

 

Although further down he does say this  " Irish are considered as residents of UK, or native UK teachers. Don't tell Irish what I said, butt.....Japan, Korea, Taiwan consider Ireland as UK, or English Native speaking country"

11 years 9 weeks ago
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icnif77:

Thanks Boom, for explanation of my mistake in writing. Butt,....I wonder, did many people here 'understood', I meant 'Irish are really South Africans'? hmmmmno

11 years 9 weeks ago
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I'm Irish, and had no issues getting the permits.  I've been led to believe that the addition of Ireland to this "list" is a relatively new development, so you're correct in that regard.

icnif77:

Irish are considered Native English speakers, as they are South Africans, TOO.

Provision in two Chinese Provinces require FT is from Native speaking country till 2012.

Maybe Law has changed in 2013 or will change down the road, what is highly unlikely. Just look at English teaching jobs ads here at Echinacities. There are more than 300 NEW job posts for English FT daily. So, Chinese Schools could accommodate more than 8000 FT monthly.

11 years 9 weeks ago
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Traveler:

Icnif: Maybe they are the same jobs being readvertised over and over, because agents and schools still try to hire teachers illegally, then can't get work permits. Then agents and schools hire illegally, then don't have to pay the illegal worker. So the illegal worker leaves, to be replaced by another illegal worker.

 

Didn't you say you had the same problem in Liaoning, refused a work permit, then worked illegally with a work permit from Zhejiang. And now you have left that job because the agent won't pay (and you cannot force them to, because you were working illegally). This is happening all the time in China.

 

Also, Irish are NOT considered to be South African.

11 years 9 weeks ago
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Traveler, look at the map of China and its borders. You will understand, why Liaoning and Sichuan issue Working permits to Native English teachers, only. 

Traveler:

I'm sorry. I must be missing something. What is the the map supposed to tell me?

11 years 9 weeks ago
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Posts: 263

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I've been teaching English in China (legally) since 2002. I am a Russian citizen. I have a residence permit + Foreign expert certificate. It is up to school to decide whether you're qualified or not.  I have an experience of living in the UK + my major was education. I've got 10 years of teaching - English - in - China experience under my belt. That does the trick.

icnif77:

School can only apply for your Working permit, and PSB has the final call about the Working permit, and Z visa location pick-up.

 

Last year, School in Dalian, Liaoning, applied for Working permit, and get denied, because  I am Non-native English teacher.

 

I got Working permit in Zhejiang and HK Z visa in September 2012. I quit working for Helen Group for Contract violations.

School in Dalian got me new FEC and extension of Residence Permit, till November 2013.

11 years 9 weeks ago
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Traveler:

Elena: That sounds extraordinary, that the multitude of schools in China all make their own rules. Can you recall where you got this information, or have a link to confirm it?

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i know 2 irish teachers in shandong that have z visas , about 5 years ago one of them had to leave for a year because some chinese officials got pissed off on a visit to ireland when somebody called taiwan a seperate nation not part of china , so that year he could not get a renewal an had to go to thailand for a year and then come back.

the further north you are and the further out of major cities you are the more lenient the rules for work visas are.

i know filipinos teaching in harbin that cant work in shandong, hell my last university had a 72 year old american , provincial university would use him but city universities could not hire him.

uniformity of the rules is an oxymoron. good luck

Traveler:

Agreed. China really needs to get some uniformity of the rules. However, I am trying to find out what the rules are concerning native speakers. I believe the rules were set by the central government in 2011, but maybe they have changed again.

11 years 9 weeks ago
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icnif77:

You could travel to closest PSB, and ask them about 2011 Native English Teachers Law. No Chinese translator needed at PSB.

You will certainly get first hand info from Chinese Gov., maybe some web links of Chinese Laws in English, too.

11 years 9 weeks ago
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Traveler:

Icnif: Each PSB office seems to interpret the laws their own way, or changes them to suit the situation. I am looking for the central government's rules. Do you know or don't know?

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Posts: 821

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Here in Hebei I've met English teachers from Philippines, Ireland and Spain. All on Z visas.

Traveler:

You went back 6 months just to make that little contribution? We all know anyone can get a Z visa - and we have already established that most of them are issued illegally, and under false pretences.

10 years 38 weeks ago
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Thumbs up to everyone thumbed down!

Limiting English teachers based on nationality rather than qualifications, is at best foolish.

Traveler:

Oh good. All those thumbs ups will make the illegal teachers legal?

10 years 38 weeks ago
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GuilinRaf:

Who said anything about making them legal?

Some dick gave everyone a thumbs down, so I balanced it out. I do that all the time.

 

My real point is that just because someone does not come from an English speaking country, that does not mean that they cannot have the qualifications to be a legit English teacher. Look at Elena. She is Russian and seems to have all the qualifications needed to teach English.

Chill....

10 years 38 weeks ago
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Traveler:

Fair enough, It came out wrong. Perhaps I need English lessons. You do realise this question has been revived after six months, and the issues were settled long ago? And those posts thumbs down are also six months old? Wumaos stirring the pot.

 

The Chinese government have tried to set benchmarks, but non-native speakers fake all sorts of qualifications to prove they are educated and competent English speakers, when they clearly aren't. You only need to look at some of the posts on here from non-natives who can barely string a sentence together.

 

You can't honestly include people like that in with a near-native speaker like Elena, who is the exception rather than the rule when it comes to non-native speakers. You cannot use Elena's proficiency to justify someone like icnif as being suitable as an English teacher.

 

The one document that most people can't forge, and wouldn't dare forge, is a passport. That is also the one document that China actually has the capacity to check and verify. Other documents are so varied that they have nothing to check them against. So China has chosen the passport as the standard by which to judge it's teachers.That is also why the central government made a law that Z visas can only be issued in the teacher's home country, but most areas ignore that as well

 

Your opinion and my opinion don't matter in the slightest, and that was not what the question was about. It was about China's opinion and the Chinese law.

10 years 38 weeks ago
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crimochina:

"Limiting English teachers based on nationality rather than qualifications, is at best foolish." 

 

 

i must disagree  with you. it depends on what the students need to be taught. and look at the reality of the situation. 

 

if you are a school preparing students to study or work extensively in the states, then you need native english speakers. how is a school with personnel supposed to access language ability? degrees? certs? we know from experiencing chinese workers that is not a good way. an open minded native english speaker can easily figure out country specific idioms. because they themselves should understand the flexible and creative use of english. so when it comes to advanced english i think country of origin is probably the most important but not the only consideration. along with work history and degrees and cert. basic english can be taught by anyone good speaker. 

10 years 38 weeks ago
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Traveler:

I did a literature review on this topic for my TESOL Masters It examines a dozen studies for and against the issue of non-native speakers as English teachers, and evaluates them against my own 10 years experience in TESOL.

 

www.craighillnet.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/05-world-englishes.pdf

10 years 38 weeks ago
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Answer of the DayMORE >>
A:  "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "S
A: "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "Shenzhen agent can connect you with an employer, who's authorized to hire waigouren ... and can sponsor Z visa." It's not like every 10th person you meet in Shenzhen's hood can sponsor work visa ...  The only way to change from student to labourer visa is just a regular way by: 1. Finding an employer, who'll apply for an Invitation letter; 2. Exit China and apply for Z visa in your home country's Chinese embassy; 3. Enter China in 30-days after Z visa was stamped into your travelling instrument ...As I am aware, you won't be able to switch to Working permit by remaining in China....,so make ready for a return to your home .... -- icnif77