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Q: Why am I having difficulty finding more than a platonic relationship in China?
Hello,
Long time reader of the website, but rarely post. Hopefully, someone can lend some advice.
Recently, I've been having a lot of relationship difficulty and I don't know the reason.
First, I think it's worth mentioning that back in America I never had more than the average amount of difficulty when dealing with women, and that in America many women also found me to be above average in appearance and substance.
Since arriving in China I've noticed, and as a expected, women are very attracted to my appearance and nationality. However, I haven't had much luck moving past a platonic relationship for more than the short term with any woman here.
Furthermore, I don't wish to pursue marriage or a long-term relationship, because my future plans don't necessarily dictate that I stay in my present location for much longer than a year. I am not looking for a relationship, but I also don't like being alone. I want a companion but creating a long commitment is too difficult for me in my current situation.
To put this bluntly, I want someone to go home with at the end of the night without having very many strings attached, if you catch my drift.
Recently, I went on two dates with a woman. The first date we just exchanged your normal back and forth banter about our life's over a couple drinks, no kissing/hugs/ or going back to my apartment. The second date we went out to dinner and a movie. During the movie I reached for her hand, which is something that seems appropriate given the situation. However to my surprise she quickly pushed my hand away. After the movie she quickly left and took a taxi to go home. I messaged her later asking, "what's the matter?" and she replyed, "In China girls only do that if it is her boyfriend." ... she also seemed to be convinced, after informed her I am not looking for a long term relationship, that, "All women in China only want a guy they can stay with for forever."
Being rejected for a hand hold has never happened in my entire life of dating, I am usually very aware of what will work and what won't, but this.... this is really driving me crazy and it's not the first time this sort of thing has happened to me in China with women.
Are most Chinese women really this prude? The girl was 25 years old. The reason I didn't suggest this to be pure anomaly is because similar instances of rejections have happened to me more than once since I've been in China. This is extremely embarrassing, and a huge hit to my self esteem.
I could say a lot more, but I've already said too much. I am happily awaiting any input the community can provide. Thanks for reading.
TL:DR Why do Chinese women find me extremely attractive, but only want to sleep with me If we are in a relationship or are going to get married?
8 years 27 weeks ago in Relationships - China
If you just want sex, get a prostitute.
If you want dinner, a movie, then sex - get an escort.
If you want companionship - get a dog.
All are cheaper in the long run than trying for a short-term relationship.
One night-stands and casual dating are possible in a larger, more liberal city like Shanghai.
Have you considered trying for female expats instead? A Chinese girl might not be "traditional" but she sure as hell thinks she is and acts accordingly (YMMV).
I think the playboy image doesn't go over well for foreigners any more because whether or not the same technique is used by a Chinese man, at least the female can converse in her own language, shares a similar culture and won't be called a prostitute and traitor when she's accompanying a Chinese man.
morget:
Prostitutes and escorts are expensive and dangerous. Morally and financially it wouldn't be feasible for myself.
I am 23 years old, not some old ass rich guy on a business trip to China. I am actually living here.
To say it's cheaper is really being anecdotal. I've had women buy dinner, drinks, and other things for me on their dime.
I live in smaller city, so there are not many expats here. The female expats I know I often find to be condescending, and unattractive in appearance.
There's certainly validity to the last point, but on the other side of that you have many Chinese woman who see a bump in status, because they are seen with a foreigner. So, I think that's going to be more of case by case scenario.
Thanks for your reply.
Sinobear:
I'll add a poignant anecdote from one of my former students: he said that in Changsha, people will have three or more partners - the "for fun" partner, dating, socializing and general debauchery; the partner whom their parents approve of (in hopes of garnering financial and 'face' opportunities through marriage); and, their one "ture" love that they hope to marry even though they know their parents wouldn't approve of.
Sinobear:
Oh, I wasn't making light of your situation nor was I making a value judgment. It's just that Chinese girls really have this "thing" for being seen as "traditional" and hence the long-term mindset.
In my 17 years here, I've only ever known two young women who were "into" casual dating simply because they were going abroad and just "playing" until they received their visas.
If you just want sex, get a prostitute.
If you want dinner, a movie, then sex - get an escort.
If you want companionship - get a dog.
All are cheaper in the long run than trying for a short-term relationship.
One night-stands and casual dating are possible in a larger, more liberal city like Shanghai.
Have you considered trying for female expats instead? A Chinese girl might not be "traditional" but she sure as hell thinks she is and acts accordingly (YMMV).
I think the playboy image doesn't go over well for foreigners any more because whether or not the same technique is used by a Chinese man, at least the female can converse in her own language, shares a similar culture and won't be called a prostitute and traitor when she's accompanying a Chinese man.
morget:
Prostitutes and escorts are expensive and dangerous. Morally and financially it wouldn't be feasible for myself.
I am 23 years old, not some old ass rich guy on a business trip to China. I am actually living here.
To say it's cheaper is really being anecdotal. I've had women buy dinner, drinks, and other things for me on their dime.
I live in smaller city, so there are not many expats here. The female expats I know I often find to be condescending, and unattractive in appearance.
There's certainly validity to the last point, but on the other side of that you have many Chinese woman who see a bump in status, because they are seen with a foreigner. So, I think that's going to be more of case by case scenario.
Thanks for your reply.
Sinobear:
I'll add a poignant anecdote from one of my former students: he said that in Changsha, people will have three or more partners - the "for fun" partner, dating, socializing and general debauchery; the partner whom their parents approve of (in hopes of garnering financial and 'face' opportunities through marriage); and, their one "ture" love that they hope to marry even though they know their parents wouldn't approve of.
Sinobear:
Oh, I wasn't making light of your situation nor was I making a value judgment. It's just that Chinese girls really have this "thing" for being seen as "traditional" and hence the long-term mindset.
In my 17 years here, I've only ever known two young women who were "into" casual dating simply because they were going abroad and just "playing" until they received their visas.
I agree with Sinobear. Even if a girl has sex with you early she would still like to plan a long term relationship\marriage. You must remember that they only have until they are 30 to get married or they die (or at least become undesirable to Chinese men).
morget:
I guess having sex with a foreigner doesn't have as much allure these days?
You'd figure that'd risk more to be with a foreigner, because he has infinitely more possibilities to provide with money and possibly a better life in a more developed country.
Maybe porn and sexual freedom in America, as well as my perceptions of Chinese women being "easy" has ruined my perception of women in China.
Thanks for the reply.
Lord_hanson:
Your comment on people risking more to be with a foreigner makes no sense because you don't want a long term relationship. They are just getting the bad without the good.
Don't feel rejected by the hand holding part, public display of affection is still a no-no in many parts of China, besides she might get pregnant! The level of sex education is not what you would expect.
Honestly I'd say try we chat look for nearby people or the hookup app momo.i know foreigners who use those tools to find casual hook ups. Put a picture of your face on it and you will likely find the kind of girls who are into foreigners and or casual dating. Most girls in China are traditional and don't want casual dating so it will be hard to find what you're looking for by meeting people through friends and such. Those sites are probably full of scammers weirdos and hookers but I know dudes who get laid using the Internet.
You live in a smaller city? Then that's your problem.
Getting laid is alot more feasible in most first and second-tier cities. Nevertheless, always make clear what your intentions are from the beginning, and maybe try going for older (28+), more experienced women.
Jiayou my friend 
.
One Chinese girl I was dating told me she loved me after the second.... date. And had already mentioned the pressure from her Mom to get married. She was 26. This is the world you live in now my man, don't feel bad. Cross-cultural dating is not easy.
On another note, you don't have to tell them up front that you will certainly leave in 1 year, because honestly, you don't know that. I know more than a few guys that said they'd be here for a year 5 years ago. Just phrase it as, "I plan to stay in China for at least a year, and then see how things go." This is not a lie. Even in the west, nobody really wants to date someone with an expiration date.
juanisaac:
try 10 minutes. I once had coffee with a girl as a get to know you date. she was talking marriage after ten minutes.
To be honest i think you want your cake and to eat it too
You might just want some fun but they want a future
Im sure there are girls around that think the same as you
Just don't disrespect a girl that wants more than you a prepared to offer
Chinese girls have feelings too
And some have very nasty male relatives that take offense at guys that make their family lose face
Not to mention the fact that the girl feels low sense of worth and has thought s of harming themselves
23 in China translates to 14 in a lot of cases
Think long and hard about the person you want to be
philbravery:
Oh And i hope you have at least one daughter in the future
Yeah the fact is not many girls are looking for a quickie with a foreigner I'm afraid. If they're going to put out, they want to know you're in it for the long run.
Sure there are girls that are happy to have a ONS with you. But I think you'll struggle to find someone willing to put their life on hold just to keep you company until you leave. But everyone's different. You might get lucky so just keep trying.
Did it not work out with your gf?
Hotwater:
Well spotted! From contemplating marriage to wanting NSA.......
dongbeiren:
yea, this poster doesn't make sense anymore.... not sure the motivation for the troll but doesn't seem genuine
morget:
I am surprised you went through the effort to look at my history. I was considering mentioning that in the post, but it would have made an already long post even longer, so I decided against it.
@dongberin - Honestly, why would I take the time to write this if I was a troll? Love is full of many different twists and turns, Besides, I am only 23 years old. I think it's very common of people my age to go through frequent relationship changes.
dongbeiren:
alright maybe you're real but it's a little strange that you reappear on the forum with a completely different relationship story...so what happened? You came to China to maybe marry this other Chinese girl and now she's out of the picture and you're looking for casual sex and would never consider marriage? What happened? Did the first near-marriage experience put you off? It would be nice to hear a little background about what prompted the shift. Otherwise people might not believe your story is legit.
It doesn't look like you are a player, good.
"TL:DR Why do Chinese women find me extremely attractive, but only want to sleep with me If we are in a relationship or are going to get married?"
Motives and expectations. Many PRC girls are into relationships to improve their living standard (car, house, cash, passport, social status, up one notch on guanxi network .....whatever). Years ago, they would hide that until after marriage, invariably some brother/cousin in Timbaktu is in some kind of financial trouble, business failure, sickness......". These days many are direct and open about it, so you hear them saying "I am a poor girl from the countryside.....". Ask for immediate clarification, what the hell do you mean by that! lol
Being seen with a laowai is akin to being seen with your chinese dad (except he isn't). Tons of "free", "cheap" bodies are sold like this, for decades. They are called marriages.
This is no big deal(to mainland chinese) nor is it any secret among them, everyone knows and accepts that as the easiest, most cost effective way to get the hell out of china. The thing is, jeolousy and sour grapes, many who do that condemn others doing the same, fake face and hypocrisy. What is PRC famous for?
So, even if you look like the Tom Cruise 20 years ago, since you aren't perceived as a good long term investment vehicle, giving you a one night stand makes a red bottomline, a net loss for those who are into long term, land big fish kind of investment. Literally, direct foreign investment, lol.
morget:
Thanks for the reply.
It's sad, but true.
I feel really bad for many of the long-term expats here who have to go through that kind of shit. It's really terrible. I hope one day the society moves past it.
earthizen:
Not at all.
Some highly significant truths are ugly.
Agree, in the grand scheme of things no one deserves to go through shits like these. To justify the pains and sufferings with whatever growth or expansion is being ruthless and unloving toward oneself, a misuse of free will, imho. This is probably why many expats are leaving, for the right reasons.
Because this is China, the only girls who will pull up a one night stand with you (or Chinese guys) are gold diggers.
Most Chinese girls are still on the traditional side, looking for a long term partner and yes if you are that guy you will most certainly find a wonderful and loyal girl here, one who will be dedicated and never let you down even through hard times.
Players don't get the real thing here.
ScotsAlan:
Not sure about that random guy. I got a taxi from central GZ to head out to the sticks on Sunday night. The taxi driver was an "older woman". She wanted to go to a hotel with me. We agreed the price at 400, but I said no because I thought she would cheat me and not pay.
she rejected you because she has been lied by too many guys before you who did her for marriage or relationships promises.
Chinese girls are opened than any time before , it's so difficult to find a virgin girl around.
If you are looking for a relationship that doesn't end up with marriage , it's better not date find some girls who have same goals as you. Some girls also will look for foreigners because they know they can't get married with a foreigner.
So - you want Chinese girls to be less Chinese.
And the Chinese girls want you to be less foreign.
I think the reason they are after a relationship or marriage after sex is a thing called 'standards'. Perhaps you've never heard of the word? Or, you simply don't care what hole you put it in - as long as it doesn't talk too much, or can actually think for themselves??
No, I'm not against ONSs, nor against casual sex with those who are also after the same - but you clearly are not playing with those types of girls. You know the general mindset of Chinese girls, and either you lie about your intentions (by not being explicit), or you deliberately avoid the conversation until after you've got your jollies. Given that you know what most Chinese girls are actually like, and yet are still acting in such a way, says a lot about you as a person (ie, one that doesn't give a shit about the girls your fking).
As has been suggested - there are apps for that sort of thing. I'd suggest you use them to get what you're looking for, rather than breaking hearts because you don't have the balls to get rejected - or to keep it in your pants!
Christian guilt is a terrible thing. What you have to accept is that you don't pay a woman to have sex with you.... You pay her to leave in the morning.
Once you see that, you can fill your boots.
And trust me, the girls will be desperate to leave you the next day with their money clenched in their fists.
Sex is massively overrated. Why people let it rule their lives is beyond me.
RandomGuy:
Primal instinct is the reason why sex rules people's lives. For any specie out here, passing on their genes is the end to everything, the reason for their very existence, and the only way to do this is through sex.
Hoomans somewhat succeed at containing their instinct because there is the fear of being punished for it (rape is punishable by jail time, stuff like that), otherwise rape cases would be infinitely more common, a normal occurrence.
Cavemen actually always had not so consented sex, the dominant male usually grabbed the female, dragged her in a corner, did his thing and then left without asking her whether she wanted it or not.
But yeah, sex is overrated, for the pleasures of life, I rather have a good meal than average sex, I would never turn down good sex though.
earthizen:
Both of you have such good points I can't resist adding my two pence.
The libido is primarily there to ensure continuation of various animal species, human beings among them. With human, I suspect the need to procreate has something to do with the fear of death (annihilation, non-existence, to many) at a deeper level. By having a kid, or kids some can tell themselves, "at least some part of me continue to exist". This, of course, arises out of ignorance of what happens after death.
Libido has to do with age and both sexes have it. The difference is, apparently quite a few of the female sex use it to manipulate the males, turning a wonderfully, pleasurable activity into a nightmare. In PRC, wait till you see those "Queen Bees".......they surely would open your eyes, hahaha. The more the ego is involved the more war-mongering the person becomes. This is what true players are up to. They go for the pleasure of the kill, sex, looks, money, social status....are baits only. Malevolent in nature, in short. They do tend to cluster around, like warriors trying to find other warriors, looking for a 'good challenge'. That's fine as long as they stick with their arena.
Given time and in the long run birds of a feather do flock together, water simply doesn't goes well with fire. The problem is, earth is a 'classroom', or 'laboratory', where weirdos of all kinds are mixed up. 
yongge:
Well, if you think sex is overrated, you're not doing it right
earthizen:
perhaps the human species can learn a thing or two from their ....errh.....cousins, you've got to watch this video....
3.5 min. (need vpn in prc) -- compiled real life monkey masturba.......both sexes. Laughter, the best medicine. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qjGQNpy7Nuw
They have pressure to marry early, so any time with a guy, who is not the right guy for them, is a waste of time.
If you are looking for sex, I suggest you date people from your own country. Otherwise, get serious (with Chinese girls).
"However, I haven't had much luck moving past a platonic relationship for more than the short term with any woman here."
Hmmm, strange, this will take some careful analysis...
"Furthermore, I don't wish to pursue marriage or a long-term relationship, because bla bla."
... or maybe not.
Because you are in a completely different culture. Your upbringing, your mind-set, your experiences, your principles, your likes/dislikes can be so very different. And the day to day living (physical, emotional, spiritual) can be quite difficult to sustain.
Englteachted:
Not true. Women in any culture want to feel safe, secure and be respected (intelligent women).
Alright, apparently a bit outdated thread but morget, if you are still here and having this trouble the solution is very simple.
You do not need to go for the bar girl or other type of 'light' or 'hardcore' prostitute.
There are a lot of girls who want to practice their English and from time to time get a free lunch.
And as they are Chinese they are aware that in China 'there is no free lunch' so they are willing to 'pay' for it.
Shall not be difficult to find such a girl in some English corner - majority of the English corners is highly frequented by young women.
At the end it's quite fair exchange for both of you, as long as you both agree with the deal.
And yes, 'normal' Chinese girl, who has her boyfriend and goes with you to the cinema in order to improve her English (not by watching the movie but on the way there and back) will not let you hold her hand ...
Chinese girls will only say you're a player for games.
