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Q: Why are you guys so racist?
Most of commentators tend to be shamelessly racist. What happened to you here that you feel the need to make blanket generalizations on entire populous of a huge, extremely diverse country based on your petty anecdotal experiences?
A huge, diverse country? Anecdotal experiences? ECC posters are on the ground experiencing China first hand. And we all saw homogeneous culture, with the same disfunctional attitudes in every corner of the huge country.
I guess your perspective matters. We foreigners only see assholery all around, but if you look closer, there is a DIVERSE RANGE... of assholery:
- Sociopathic politicians
- Greedy bureaucrats
- Corrupt police
- Exploitative bosses
- Chengguang bullies
- Wifebeating husbands
- Childbeating mothers
- Youth bully gangs
- Adult bully gangs
- Forced abortion doctors
- Infanticidal families
- Child abductors
- Sex predator pedophile school principals
- Poisoners and torturers
- Men who expect to buy women's love
- Women who are for sale
- Parents who let their grandparents do the childcare
- Mahjong-playing (grand)parents who neglect their duties
- Polluting factory owners
- Baby food contaminators
- Gutter oil street vendors
- Medicine shop scammers
- Real estate scammers
- Stock market scammers
- Cost-cutting 'disposable' housing development
- Government-funded mass hacking
- Coordinated IP theft industry
- Mastermind embezzlers
- Gold diggers
- Social scammers
- Epic thieves
- Illegal drift-net fishermen
- Factories that dump their toxic waste on farmer's farms
- Nationalistic propagandists
- Quack doctors
- Dancing ayi hordes
- Public defecators
- No free stuff left over in public
- Stampedes & death crushes by crowding
- Reckless dangerous driving
- Litigious accident victims
- Witnesses of crimes who remain silent
- Damage claims by perpetrators, approved by courts of law
- Victims who sue people who try to help them
- Rescued victims who get back in their car and drive away while their benefactor drowns or bleeds to death
- Car drivers who double back over accident victims to ensure their death to save themselves money, and can claim in court they thought it was a trash bag and not be convicted even when caught on camera
- Dog meat sellers who steal people's pets for meat, and laugh and take pictures when a little girl finds her dog dead and cooked
This was just off the top of my head. Anyone can add to the list.
Help us catalogue the rich diversity of Chinese culture.
Perhaps we will come to respect Mainland Chinese culture, and stop being so damn racist.
Remember, you can't reasonably criticise Chinese for their behaviour because they punish people who try to hold them accountable. And since we are criticizing their behaviour online, we are cowards evading our just punishment. Chinese CAN hold foreign countries accountable for their actions according to foreign cultural norms, and by exension every foreign person. I still haven't apologized for the Nanjing massacre - shame on me and my generic foreign relatives!
earthizen:
My friend, wait till you read Bo Yang's book (if you haven't already). If you aren't satisfied the beer is on me. Now I know what to throw at cloistered morons who never travel outside their country or naive prc rookies, the ones who are the laughing stock of locals behind closed doors. These ones deserved it 100%! 
The link is below.
aston.villa.f.c:
one that should be on the list is: they love to get the last word in, no matter what
another one is: everything in life is a competition - even supermarket lines or toll gates on highways.
another one is: people who drive any kind of vehicle are arrogant
Delphine86:
I've also noticed you don't like Syrians because you were beaten up by ONE.
I'm also on the ground. I speak Chinese and live in a smaller city by China standards, so most of my friends are Chinese. I've lived in Yunnan, Shenzhen, and Beijing too. The people in these are anything but homogenous. You can't let the horrible China stories you hear and the things you see on the street lessen the life of real live actual human being.
Chinese people also do a lot of good things too.
Also, I don't know where you're from but a lot of the things on the list can be applied to my country as well.
coineineagh:
In an argument with anyone normal over an apartment, they wouldn't beat you up when you say you have children, want to be left alone, and call for police. And I've been beaten up, threatened, pickpocketed, ridiculed and challenged for no good reason by arab types all my life. I'm responding to a clear pattern i observed, and i'll have to face accusations of being racist and/or crybaby by people like you. But never mind your personal insinuation. you claimed your home country has instances of nearly all the above types of assholes. Let's assume for a moment your home country is not in fact Mainland China. Can you also claim they are just as abundant, that their behaviour is displayed openly without criticism from others, that they get away with their selfishness unpunished? Of course not. Because most cultures hold people accountable for their actions, and bystanders are confident enough to speak up about bad behaviour.
Why are you such an idiot? Do you know anything about China and Chinese people? Life in China? Are you that naive to think that this country and its people want you here?
You had an account for some time and then your activity was dormant for a long time. Suddenly, you (re)appear and make a lot of brainless questions that sound more like a wumao than a foreigner - or just yet another troll plying its trade.
So, which is it, a troll, a wumao, or a pollyanna?
Sinobear:
@talkword: You know, I try being nice, but it gives me headaches.
A huge, diverse country? Anecdotal experiences? ECC posters are on the ground experiencing China first hand. And we all saw homogeneous culture, with the same disfunctional attitudes in every corner of the huge country.
I guess your perspective matters. We foreigners only see assholery all around, but if you look closer, there is a DIVERSE RANGE... of assholery:
- Sociopathic politicians
- Greedy bureaucrats
- Corrupt police
- Exploitative bosses
- Chengguang bullies
- Wifebeating husbands
- Childbeating mothers
- Youth bully gangs
- Adult bully gangs
- Forced abortion doctors
- Infanticidal families
- Child abductors
- Sex predator pedophile school principals
- Poisoners and torturers
- Men who expect to buy women's love
- Women who are for sale
- Parents who let their grandparents do the childcare
- Mahjong-playing (grand)parents who neglect their duties
- Polluting factory owners
- Baby food contaminators
- Gutter oil street vendors
- Medicine shop scammers
- Real estate scammers
- Stock market scammers
- Cost-cutting 'disposable' housing development
- Government-funded mass hacking
- Coordinated IP theft industry
- Mastermind embezzlers
- Gold diggers
- Social scammers
- Epic thieves
- Illegal drift-net fishermen
- Factories that dump their toxic waste on farmer's farms
- Nationalistic propagandists
- Quack doctors
- Dancing ayi hordes
- Public defecators
- No free stuff left over in public
- Stampedes & death crushes by crowding
- Reckless dangerous driving
- Litigious accident victims
- Witnesses of crimes who remain silent
- Damage claims by perpetrators, approved by courts of law
- Victims who sue people who try to help them
- Rescued victims who get back in their car and drive away while their benefactor drowns or bleeds to death
- Car drivers who double back over accident victims to ensure their death to save themselves money, and can claim in court they thought it was a trash bag and not be convicted even when caught on camera
- Dog meat sellers who steal people's pets for meat, and laugh and take pictures when a little girl finds her dog dead and cooked
This was just off the top of my head. Anyone can add to the list.
Help us catalogue the rich diversity of Chinese culture.
Perhaps we will come to respect Mainland Chinese culture, and stop being so damn racist.
Remember, you can't reasonably criticise Chinese for their behaviour because they punish people who try to hold them accountable. And since we are criticizing their behaviour online, we are cowards evading our just punishment. Chinese CAN hold foreign countries accountable for their actions according to foreign cultural norms, and by exension every foreign person. I still haven't apologized for the Nanjing massacre - shame on me and my generic foreign relatives!
earthizen:
My friend, wait till you read Bo Yang's book (if you haven't already). If you aren't satisfied the beer is on me. Now I know what to throw at cloistered morons who never travel outside their country or naive prc rookies, the ones who are the laughing stock of locals behind closed doors. These ones deserved it 100%!
The link is below.
aston.villa.f.c:
one that should be on the list is: they love to get the last word in, no matter what
another one is: everything in life is a competition - even supermarket lines or toll gates on highways.
another one is: people who drive any kind of vehicle are arrogant
Delphine86:
I've also noticed you don't like Syrians because you were beaten up by ONE.
I'm also on the ground. I speak Chinese and live in a smaller city by China standards, so most of my friends are Chinese. I've lived in Yunnan, Shenzhen, and Beijing too. The people in these are anything but homogenous. You can't let the horrible China stories you hear and the things you see on the street lessen the life of real live actual human being.
Chinese people also do a lot of good things too.
Also, I don't know where you're from but a lot of the things on the list can be applied to my country as well.
coineineagh:
In an argument with anyone normal over an apartment, they wouldn't beat you up when you say you have children, want to be left alone, and call for police. And I've been beaten up, threatened, pickpocketed, ridiculed and challenged for no good reason by arab types all my life. I'm responding to a clear pattern i observed, and i'll have to face accusations of being racist and/or crybaby by people like you. But never mind your personal insinuation. you claimed your home country has instances of nearly all the above types of assholes. Let's assume for a moment your home country is not in fact Mainland China. Can you also claim they are just as abundant, that their behaviour is displayed openly without criticism from others, that they get away with their selfishness unpunished? Of course not. Because most cultures hold people accountable for their actions, and bystanders are confident enough to speak up about bad behaviour.
Hating the system is not hating the people. The problem with the people is the system, not the people. Speaking of the problem is often speaking of peoples problematic behavior.
coineineagh:
similar defenses were made for Catholic priests who abused children. However, the system sprang from the people, and when removed from the system, it remains to be seen if the people will form a brave new world, or revert to their old mess. Infanticide and footbinding predates the PRC, so I believe people's low confidence and unwillingness to own their deeds is an innate weakness of the culture.
Shining_brow:
Systems don't actually exist - the thing we call a 'system' is merely what some people have done before - and which people now don't choose to do anything different now. Blaming the 'system' is a simplistic, naive way of dis-avowing personal responsibility for one's actions (or, in most cases) LACK of actions.The "I couldnt do anything" is complete crap!!! You could do something, you chose to let some stupid 'rule' be more important than someone's life.
In the end, fear of personal punishment often outweighs doing the 'right' thing - which is why this concept of doing the right thing is often so big - people rarely do it. That's why I applaud people like Snowden - he knew exactly what he was getting into, and the repercussions.. but still said "this is for the better - greqter good - and I'm not going to let personal punishments stop me from doing this greater good".
Scandinavian:
@shining. In the case of China. "the system" is a group of a few that doesn't care about the many, the system is indeed there.
I'm not racist, I just hate commies. Russian commies, Chinese commies and Scottish commies.
nzteacher80:
Chinese and Russian commies simply don't exist. It's a label which the definition does not fit the evidence.
ScotsAlan:
Good point nzteach... But trust me... My ex-wife's hate me. They have reason to. They married me. I accept their hate. Why this rashnick guy hates me I have no idea. I don't hate him. I don't hate anyone. Not even my MIL. And my MIL is an easy person to hate.... Trust me on that:)
coineineagh:
A Russian Christian supremacist hates any ideology that isn't Christianity, and anyone receptive to them.
To be honest, the more time I spend in China, the more I regress to my childhood where everyone I knew was openly racist. Even the comedy on the TV. This is 1970s UK.
I am in conflict with racism. I am totally against it, and I am not racist... But I do have racist thoughts. I suppress them for the sake of my daughter. My generation, with my background are hopefully the last of the racists.
I know the above is a contradiction. It's because I totally believe in the concept of total equality, but little " Bernard Manning" moments pop into my head, uninvited, from time to time. To my shame. Echoes' the seventies I call them.
So with the echoes' I can't really claim to be non racist. The thoughts stay in my mind. But they are there.
My Job as a dad, is to make sure my daughter does not have to deal with the same as I do when she is older.
yongge:
You should spend some time in Africa, that will quickly cure you from the total equality BS.
ScotsAlan:
Nothing will change unless you want change. And change has to start somewhere. From the suffragettes to the black lives matter campaign. The earth is not the domain of the white man. But when the white man is challenged he will tell horror stories of what will happen if he is not in charge. I totally accept white privilege. I am privileged because I am white. Racism is similar to Reaganomics. The trickle down effect. White man at top. Lets the blacks and browns and yellows fight for second place. Disgusting. If you can't accept the concept of totally equality... Well... Challenge your programming.
nzteacher80:
Your talking about Till Death Us Do Part with Alf Garnett.
ScotsAlan:
That counts as one nzteach. Did you know, Anthony booth who played the socialist on that sitcom is Tony Blairs Father In law?
coineineagh:
I had racist and anti-racist times growing up. Racism is in everyone, and the only people who can claim to be non-racist simply haven't had much contact with other cultures. Combating racism is just tackling symptoms. We need to focus on providing quality of life for everyone, with education, then coexistence will follow. When rational people can provide for their needs, there is no need to seek out your racial group out of fear. People judge others by their merits when they have the luxury to. If they (feel they) don't, they will seek corruption and nepotism and racism to gain an advantage.
ScotsAlan:
You fuck yourself up with that argument coin. The symptoms are caused by rasicm. For example.... These black people have no idea of fair play and humanity..... ITS THEIR FAULT....they did not follow our rules. They deserve what they get because we know better. You know better coin... Why is that?
coineineagh:
erm… that's not how i reason at all. if anything, i blame culture, not race. and my criticisms are focused on behaviour and values. you can call it cultural supremacism, and it would be closer to the truth. i mistrust middle-eastern characters because they have a propensity towards gangs, threats and violence which affects others; it has nothing to do with appearance, race or religion. black people are ok in comparison - their intimidation is mostly for show. we need to stop getting riled up over irrelevant buzzwords like "racism", and be open to discussing cultural values. how can we expect Chinese to accoplish this discussion if we can't even do it ourselves?
ScotsAlan:
So coin, I have no idea what color your skin is. And to be honest, I don't care. I honestly do not give a flying fuck. I don't care what religion you are, if you have one Who cares? But you do seem to have a desire to change china... That is fine. But please, do me a favor and get some facts together. I am really fed up with the Republican political model of trust us and hate them.
coineineagh:
I'm neither american nor republican, and viewpoints shouldn't be rejected out of hand merely because they bear similarities to political views you oppose. Some always condemn others, so you're damned if you do damned if you don't. Some always tolerate others, so you're free to be as disruptive as you like, and anyone who speaks up is branded an irrational racist. Somewhere in between, there is a balanced, appropriate response. You are extreme pro-tolerance, and extremes leave you (and your society) wide open for exploitation.
Shining_brow:
I tend to agree with Coin on this - although it does appear that he is over-simplifying things. While education etc is vitally important to achieving 'equality', it's quite clear that this is far from enough, as many of the most well-educated, and rich, people on this planet are extremely racist! Supremacist level racist.
Also remember - racism goes in all directions. It is, as said, a cultural thing.
And, sorry Scots, but no - yours, or your daughter's will not be the last generation to have racists... it will take at least another couple of centuries. While we're still having wars (at the extreme), and divided communities (at the local and daily), we'll still have racism. While our loyalty to a 'nation' (which, in reality, is merely a different colour or a line on a map - which over time we've changed into something so much bigger) rather than to ourselves as beings... or decide our ancestry has values which are 'better' than others... or just 'my group is better than your group'... there will be form of racism.
The ideal world is out there... and it is happening - but each and every individual human being must be a part of that - and must want that.... and, let's face it - they don't!
coineineagh:
Peace and equality are bad for business. Less problems, less scarcity, less sales. The media in Holland is making a big deal out of Chinese who send affordable baby milk powder back home to family(they call them 'traders' to avoid humanizing them with a family), crying crocodile tears for Dutch mothers who find empty shelves, and not discussing price gouging or misleading adverts western companies make in China. Despite this, I won't be adding "shopping for products abroad" to the list of reprehensible Mainlander activities. Meanwhile, everyone is concerned about aggressive Middle-Eastern types walking around everywhere on the streets. But the rich can drive past them in their BMW's while the rest of us buy insurance, buy fences and shutters, buy security, buy comfort/reassurance, etc. The media has no interest in discussing cultural aggression in society; it's a business opportunity not a problem. It just doesn't feel that way when you're on the ground being punched in the face.
ScotsAlan:
I admit I am swayed by coins viewpoint. I mostly agree with what he says.
Delphine86:
I agree that racism in everyone, including myself. I'm not standing above anyone on some moral high ground.
However, racism is a bad way to reason. It's not just toxic, but it's bad logic too. Our brains like to generalize things for conveniences sake, but when it comes to people you can't do that. Everyone is so different.
BlightyMatt:
"love thy neighbour"?
But for lazy stereotypes "Mind your language"...ESL teachers ahoy!
See youtube for more info
PS....."this chicken is rubbery"...."Ha!...thank you very much!"
A lot happens to you here that makes you understand what our forefathers went through when they were rudely dragged out of Ghana to go and become slaves to them white folks.... the only difference is that we bring ourselves here in search of better livelihood only to realize that we have been duped into that very slavery that we have tried to program our minds not to regress back to.
So uuhmm... try to look at your life from a Chinese persons perspective...... you earn more than they do just for being the skin color that you are...... so uuhm i think they are more racist than you assume anyone else in here to be.....
yongge:
Ah, the victim mentality. Get over it, you make your own decisions and have to live with them, don't blame others or racism. You made the decision to be in China, it is up to you to make the decision that you cannot cope and should leave.
A sticky subject. I'm going to give my honest opinion and I don't expect it to be popular.
I don't like racism. I don't think it's cool. In China I am an ethnic minority. I am white. It's hard just simply existing without some Chinese people having to point out that you are different. At times this can be tiresome and at other times it can be distressing. It has given me some empathy for how ethnic minorities must feel in my home country and other Western countries.
I have experienced the less wholesome side of Chinese "hospitality". I have been intimated. People have tried to scam me. People have been rude to my girlfriend because of her being with me. I have had bad China days. All of this because of how I look. That is racism. Despite all this I still stay in China and I enjoy being here almost every day.
I have two very good Chinese friends. They are both very different people but they have certain attributes in common. They are loyal, generous, and kind and almost to a fault. They are better people than many people that I have met in my home country.
It's not fair or right to say that all Chinese people are this way inclined or have some certain fault with their personality because it's just not true. Sure there is much evidence of antisocial behaviour, outright selfishness and unadulterated greed but I think you have to look past that and think of the reasons why this behaviour exists. I have my own theories which I will save for another discussion. By being racist you don't really make yourself any better than the perpetrators of such bad behaviour.
I've seen people on ECC write some things that can be construed in no other way other than outright racism. I can't imagine that the people writing such things would say the same things in open conversation. To me that has an air of cowardice about it.
For the sake of future generations, all posters on this site need to be non racist. You can be racist, but don't post racist posts. Lets keep our racism ourselves. Lets not propagate it.
coineineagh:
racial tolerance is a work in progress, and you are presumptuous to believe yourself a finished article. most posters on ECC are decent enough, and will speak up against obvious racism. This is a China expat forum after all, and many will commiserate and condemn locals for bad behaviour. There are also frequent posts by locals (OP) who pull the racism card when it's unwarranted. And because many of us are white, we ought to be apologetic or be branded racially insensitive. Locals are obviously being racist, so why give us a hard time for speaking out about real problems? It's a racist double standard.
ScotsAlan:
I totally agree coin. In my first post on this tread I admitted I had racist "echoes". I have admitted I am racist. I feel the anti racists need to shout out loud again it. We need to stand up against the hatred. The racists claim the silent majority as theirs. That's the battle. To shout loud enough that the silent majority hears.
Delphine86:
I do agree that most posters are decent, but there is the underlying "Chinese people are so (negative adjective)" way of thinking that guides this entire Answers forum.
It's such a convenient and easy way to think. Think better. It makes you look simple coineineaugh.
ScotsAlan:
I think the word you want is "stupid". We need to recalibrate. China needs a new ism.... Stupidism. We hate stupid people who do stupid things. I am a stupidist. I rate myself higher on the Darwinian chain than the "stupids". This is nothing to do with race, color, or country. I see more stupid things here in one day than in ten years in the west.
coineineagh:
I thought Yangist was a nice descriptor. Just that newbies won't know who we are talking about.
Why do non chinese people deserve a higher wage than chinese people?
ScotsAlan:
In my case... My education was better. Why was my education better.... Wow... White privilege.If you are white and can't see that... Wow.. Your a stupid fucking brainwashed hick.
coineineagh:
Chinese contemporary philosophers ascribe to the all-powerful effect of white privilege. They have concluded that racial and cultural arrogance is a prerequisite to success. As if it's a virtue. You may have experienced a few local attmpts to look down on others, and now you know the reasoning. I'm sure white privilege is real, but nobody on Earth is mentally equipped to objectively perceive this. We all have a racial and cultural background that give us a bias.
expatlife26:
Well let me chime in here and give a real answer.
Market power, plain and simple. Because the most modest alternatives (working at starbucks, pushing boxes in a warehouse for $10/hr) for working in China are better than earning <3K/mth.
It's not a reward given for our beautiful white skin, it's that our countries have better alternatives. A local doesn't have a choice, they need a job and if they dont like it at 2500/mth theres somebody that will.
expatlife26:
It's misleading to use the word 'deserve', we don't deserve higher wages for basic jobs. We command higher wages for basic jobs. Often because labor agitators 100 yrs ago fought for stuff like a minimum wage.
The word "deserve" is a moral statement, not a market one. Nobody gets paid a high salary because they '"deserve" it in a moral sense. They get it because they are in a position to demand it, if their employer could pay them less they would every time.
RandomGuy:
Obviously that's not Scots, I remember him, looks like ECC has definitely sold itself to the wumaos, providing them with long term users accounts to spread their twisted ideals.
I didnt come to China as a racist but I sure as shit am leaving as one.
mike695ca:
BTW to the OP: You are a smelly hippy hipster fuck and I strongly dislike you.
aston.villa.f.c:
totally in agreement with OP on this one. This country can change even the most patient of saints.
ScotsAlan:
I agree too Mike. And add any 'ism to the list as you see fit. Ageism, sexism, sexual orientationism... Wow... China is so right wing it makes trump look like a commie in comparison
Delphine86:
"smell dirty hippy." There you go making assumptions on an entire swath of people again.
Why are we racist? How about "why are you a cultural relativist?"
Delphine86:
Do you even know what the means?
Because it's like, you know, obviously a good way to think about people.
To the OP:
Think how your attitude and that of your fellow countrymen affects the thinking of others.
I have never met a national from any western country that has arrived in China with the intentions of exhibiting racist behaviour. I have seen many arrive with the intention of integration but then changed over time because of the attitudes of the Chinese towards them.
One example is the "you should pay more because you are a foreigner" attitude, another is "if you don't like it, you should go back to your own country". Over a period of time, being faced with rudeness and dishonesty, childish smirks and inconsiderate behaviour wears at the heart and soul of everyone. It is not a racial thing. It is pure human nature.
I appreciate that not every Chinese national exhibits the traits that I have mentioned. There are many that are civilized and courteous. Unfortunately, in such a huge population, that "many" becomes the select few and are drowned out by those that are uncivilized and discourteous to others.
Delphine86:
So because a lot of Chinese can be terrible and also racist, that makes it ok? For them and for you?
"They're racists, so I will be racist too." Is that what you are saying?
Kaiwen:
You are using the word "racist". I explained in the post why foreigners often react in the way that they do. It has nothing to do with racism. Regardless of whether it is Chinese, another westerner or any other nationality for that matter, if people are met with rudeness, dishonesty, childish behaviour and discourtesy, then you should expect them to reciprocate with disdain towards the other party.
Delphine may simply have a different point of view being a woman.
As a fem-pat who is out and about, she would find herself the centre of attention with many, many Chinese guys. Particularly if she frequents chinese bars. They all would be fawning over her for the trophy of hooking up with a laowai.
So you can see how this superficial popularity may colour her perceptions differently to the male expat population who are forced to endure what can often be be rude, crude and hostile behaviour. Perhaps when her chinese listening skills improve she may have a change of heart.
expatlife26:
I would think the opposite actually. I think expat guys get way more attention than expat girls. Local guys might want to hook up with a white woman but for the most part would be too shy
None of the expat women I know get the attention that even a modest expat guy in a backwater city gets. Really rare to find a fempat just screwing around here for 10 yrs because they aren't going to be into the local dating scene at all.
coineineagh:
more likely the OP is a wumao account using a foreign-looking profile pic for some cheap cred.
RandomGuy:
Indeed, male laowai get more attention from Chinese women, but they also get a lot more hostility from the male Chinese population due to the gender gap.
Fempats get less attention from Chinese men but zero hostility from Chinese women (or men for that matter), so yeah in comparison their views are skewed.
Whenever I hear a woman laowai complain about China, it's always how every Foreign guys are chasing Chinese women and not giving them all the attention that they were used to back in the West.
"Go ahead and date Chinese guys" I tell them, I'm fine with this, but for some reason that escapes my understanding, they almost never do so.
JanShanghai:
Agree with iWolf. However....I do not benefit from the attention from Chinese men because I do not WANT it. I want some attention from the foreign men, and I rarely get it.
Maybe I just like a challenge.
RandomGuy:
JanShanghai ->Sort of, assuming that you are a White woman.
Back home in the West, it's White men who are running after highly popular White women courted by not only White men but also every other men.
Even below average looking White women in the West have at least a dozen men courting them, this inflates their ego and of course they only pick the best men, can't blame them for that.
In China (or the rest of Asia), the situation is reversed and White women find themselves in the position that White men are in the West.
In Asia, every White men even the nerdy type instantly become highly popular with women, any 3/10 White guy here can get 8/10 local women easily.
Contrary to popular beliefs, not a side effect of poverty and not changing anytime soon, same thing happens in wealthy Asian countries and among wealthy Asian women.
I can't talk for Asian women but the reasons why so many White guys like them is because they tend to have nice personalities and look younger, are slender, dress nicely.
Now I am all for White women going for Asian guys, I even encourage them to do so because there are some awesome men in China too.
The OP is on to something here, while I know that my recent post has made me quite unpopular, a few of the responses to that post were also indicative of that racist mindset.
The moment that somebody suggests that maybe a few of these Chinese women may not be with an expat because they're so amazing and represent a ray of light in the dusk-filled spot that is supposedly Chinese men, with it instead being for the sake of meeting more traditional, urgent needs, everyone becomes so quick to take me down.
Not trying to play the victim here, but at the same time, some of the other posters here need to get off their high horse, you're not the heroes in this situation - China is not the stage set for Pocahontas and you don't get the role of John Smith..
rasklnik:
Pocahontas wasn't saved by John Smith, it was the other way around...Go watch the cartoon.
kasuka91:
Alright, you got me there, but the thinking can still arguably be applied with regards to the romantic angle inserted in the film.
coineineagh:
Spoken by the person who argued that foreigners dating Chinese women are losers, and both parties are just doing it for convenience sake, absolving Chinese men of any possible deficiency for their failures in job/wifeseeking. Do you get your opinions dictated by wumao, or are you paid for this? I sure hope you get paid for this; i'd hate to think you waste energy on these confrontations due to an emotional need.
kasuka91:
I didn't say that those foreigners are losers, that's what you took from it. I was trying to touch on how a relationship pursued by a foreign male here in China may be done, consciously or sub-consciously for reasons of filling in a void, with the genuine need for companionship being subordinate to the former.
The void itself is one based on manliness,virility, feeling needed, being in charge. And it's becoming alot more difficult for some Western men to fulfill these needs back at home when their home countries are becoming less patriarchal and more equal in terms of society and the balance between the two genders.
coineineagh:
True relationships are always based on a need for companionship. Without that need, there would be no relationships. You manage to twist something natural into an attack on people's insecurities. It's adolescent thinking that is normal in China, but not among educated adults. "What are the motivations behind my partner's love? Does she love me for me or what I represent to her? I'm rich so maybe she just needs my support. I'm handsome so maybe it's not about my personality. I'm fun to be with but maybe she is tempted by rich or attractive men. I'm foreign so maybe she just wants a passport out. She is a leftover woman so maybe she just wants a baby fast." - These considerations are personal, between partners. You are just spreading blanket insecurities about personal issues that don't concern you. You wumaos underestimate who you are dealing with; we are not as easy to manipulate as locals. Many of us are older, educated and more mature about these things.
kasuka91:
"What are the motivations behind my partner's love? Does she love me for me or what I represent to her? I'm rich so maybe she just needs my support. I'm handsome so maybe it's not about my personality. I'm fun to be with but maybe she is tempted by rich or attractive men. I'm foreign so maybe she just wants a passport out. She is a leftover woman so maybe she just wants a baby fast."
You may be on to something there. I must admit, I do harbour some of these insecurities whenever I (as a foreigner who is British) think about dating or pursuing relationships with Chinese women. Perhaps that's something I need to take some time to think about and reflect on.
Btw, can everyone stop with this wumao stuff, there's no need to resort to namecalling when it's better to just respectfully disagree. It's bordering on crazy paranoia, it's becoming the equivalent to how the term "communist" was thrown around during the McCarthy era.
coineineagh:
If you're not one, then I apologize. Pretending to be someone completely different to push your opinions is a common Chinese pastime online, so you'll be accused of it often. Especially if you mix in value judgements about interracial dating. But your response is more contemplative than I expected, so I probably jumped to conclusions.
Again? Another post saying people who say something negatively about China are racist? Again we equate a country with a race?
It seems post like these pop up every few months like the trolls.
Firstly - there's a difference between 'cultural elitism' and 'racism'. And I'm fairly sure that we're all culturally elitist - our way is MUCH better than their way.This coincides with skin colour and ancestry, because it's directly linked to our cultures - for the most part, we've been fairly isolated and closed-off from accepting people into our groups.
This will change. This IS changing. In countries like Australia - relatively low population, highly centralised to major cities, with large percentages of different ethnic groups - and some of those groups have been in Australia for decades - generations, even - and with the mixing of those ethnic groups, we're getting to be fairly multi-cultural. We see each other as 'equals' - and Aussie is an Aussie is an Aussie. However, there will still be racist attitudes - while we cling to our ancestral identities... a non-Chinese person would have a different perspective of modern day China than a person with Chinese ancestry - even if they, and their grandparents, have been in Australia for the last 50 years!
Also - Delphine - racism would go against the race. Most of the stereotyping and gross over-generalisations you're wailing against would be against the culture. I did it myself the other day (and, I concede, there are racist connotations). I was sitting at Starfucks waiting for a flight, and there was a 'chinese' guy sitting next to me, who I didn't really want to talk to and all - racist/stereotyping. Turns out, after some small talk, he's actually from Singapore. My attitude to him completely changed... I was willing to talk to him, and in my mind, he suddenty became less arrogant, less self-centred, and more trust-worthy, better educated (in a wordly sense). So - which word would you apply here?
I came to China extremely open-minded and tolerant. During my first couple years here I bent over backward to accept behavior all around me as "different" and had the mindset that I am a guest here and should adapt to local ways. I have learned a lot of the language and the culture and from my observations I can confidently conclude that MOST mainland Chinese are materialistic, cunniving, greedy, dishonest, uncivilized, poorly educated, selfish, and ignorant. Now if I were to say "all mainland Chinese" I'd be guilty of stereotyping and racism to an extent but the fact that the truth doesn't agree with your PC bullshit doesn't make it any less true. Sorry, I don't care what race a person is but when I see a range rover driving 50 mph down a sidewalk in the middle of the day and a grown man shitting on the street and throwing his shitty toilet paper next to his pile of shit I do get judgemental. When local workers aren't paid for months at a time and their boss is driving around in a BMW I do get pissed. When I have to listen to morons who've never left the mainland or tried any foreign food proclaim that Chinese food is better than anything in the world and that all foreign beer is gargabe I can justifiably call them ignorant. Are there some more enlightened people here? Of course. But even a lot of the most educated people who've been abroad still always talk about money, how much people make, how much their car costs, etc. It's just low class and crass.
I am not a racist. I don't judge people by the color of their skin or nationality. But look how the average mainlander on the street behaves and tell me it's not unhygienic and uncivilized. Look at the way MOST people drive here and tell me that they have any regard for the safety of others. They don't.
Most of the super tolerant PC people never spend more than 6 months or a year in China. They tell all of their liberal friends back home about their time in Asia and pretend to know what they're talking about when they really don't know a damn thing about China. Find me an expat who's been here 5 or 10 years who really loves China and most of the people here and I'd love to have a beer with him or her.
royceH:
I've been here for more than five years and I think China is pretty much the arsehole of the world. But I'd still like to have a beer with you.
Hotwater:
I've been here more than 5 years now and have become pretty think-skinned to the local bollocks. I'd love to have a beer with you & Royce one day with my mate Scots!
Quinn68:
On my sixth (and last) year, and I feel only the upmost contempt for this country. These people don't deserve the world.
royceH:
Rightio dongbeiren, you're on. Bring your wife and join us on a drive over to the Ili Valley next week. The back seat will be yours. We'll probably be staying three nights and we'll be able to pick you up and drop you off at the airport.
As the great John Kennedy once so famously said; "Don't think...DO!" And hell, Hotwater, you and Scots should come too! Bring BGHAL with you.
I was looking across the razor wire into Kazakhstan yesterday and I swear that when the Chinaman hocked up a great big golly and spat it at the feet of the others around him the Kazakh guards on the other side reacted exactly the same as me. That is, with disgust. And, like me, with contempt, at a society in which this kind of behaviour is the social norm.
Effing grubs. Not racism.
dongbeiren:
Royce let's have that beer looking into Kazakhstan or come to my neck of the woods and have that beer looking into North Korea. I think I'm leaving China in a few months though so gonna have to do it quick!
you would of thought that given China's love of a good jingoisitic commemoration (60th PRC birthday, victory over Japan etc) they could have had one to mark 100 years since the Boxers.
Then again most nong bu dongs would probably think Boxers is something to do with big black laowais.
royceH:
After the footy was over tonight (Eagles by 4 goals...) I hadn't yet had enough beer so I watched Ali v Frazier III. Now, they were Boxers!
Delphine, you're new here. Still in your honeymoon stage. After six months, come back and review this thread. Your thinking will be quite different I promise you.
China is a country, not a race. Not that hard to understand.
earthizen:
Nailed it. There are two Chinas too, ROC and PRC. The 'china' ecc users are talking about is PRC, its citizens are called mainlanders to distinguish them from ethnic chinese worldwide. To confirm this all you need is to open any non-prc newspaper, magazine, listen to radio in the Asia Pacific region, or talk to HKers, Taiwan Chinese, Singaporean Chinese, Malaysian Chinese, Vietnamese Chinese .......etc. Those accusing people criticizing mainlanders/prc as racists merely expose their ignorance. They are a laughing stock among non-prc, ethnic chinese, worldwide.
Wikipedia definition of mainlanders - "Mainland Chinese or Mainlanders are Chinese people who live in a region considered a "mainland". It is frequently used in the context of areas ruled by the People's Republic of China, referring to people from mainland China as opposed to other areas controlled by the state such as Hong Kong or Macau.
...Residents of mainland China are usually referred to as 大陸人 (jyutping: daai6 luk6 jan4, literally "mainlanders"), 內地人 (jyutping: noi6 dei6 jan4, literally "people from the inland"). Officials in China, as well as a few leftist institutions in Hong Kong, refer to themselves as 內地同胞 (jyutping: noi6 dei6 tung4 baau1, literally "inland compatriot"). The second term is neutral, and the first term is commonly used by local Hong Kong Chinese[citation needed] but also used by government issued statements to refer to people from mainland China.[1]"
Recent mainland immigration to Taiwan Since the mid-1990s, there has been a small amount of mainland Chinese immigration into Taiwan. These immigrants are predominantly female and are often colloquially known as dàlù mèi (大陸妹), which means "mainland girls".... These consist of two categories: female brides of businessmen who work in the mainland; and women who have married rural Taiwanese, mainly through a marriage broker. This population is distinct from waishengren.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainland_Chinese
coineineagh:
The phenomenon of killing accident victims to save compensation money was first observed in Taiwan. I'm sure the inheritors of the Guomindang have a slightly better government, but it's only because they need to be buddies with the West. Not unlike how the Dalai Lama just happens to embody the western notion of "mysterious Eastern wisdom and spirituality".
While I do understand many Chinese stare simply out of curiousity, some do it due to aggression.
Being watched at the zoo makes monkeys stressed: Apes become aggressive when people are staring at them, study finds
- Monkeys scratch themselves and act aggressively if under observation
- If the monkeys cannot see anyone watching them, they get more relaxed
- Experts from the University of Melbourne made the startling findings
- Reducing visual contact with visitors improved the monkey's health
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3141186/Being-watched-zoo-makes-monkeys-stressed-Apes-aggressive-people-staring-study-finds.html#ixzz3mzflqy9N
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So, I can totally understand folks saying "Ive had enough of China". and leave...usually never to return.
{Note to Admin: This is not racist, its simply a comparison between apes and humans, since we share a common ancient ancestor].
coineineagh:
For many social animals, prolonged eye contact is a threat. It's usually the first sign that juveniles are big enough to be held accountable: Adults object to their staring. Foreigners speaking up about Chinese stares is perceived as "how could anyone object to my innocent curiosity?" - you can extrapolate the level of responsibility people assume from this.
aston.villa.f.c:
what i always say is that having been to other asian countries the stare thing also happens but it is here in China where it is a bit different. For example, in the Philippines there are just as many stares and remarks (Cano, Joe etc) but these are not done out of hate. These are people who stare and are genuinely interested or want to be friendly. In China it is either hate, jealousy or small minded ignorance that causes people to stare in the second decade of the twenty first century.
thats my opinion and im entitled to it.
coineineagh:
you're entitled. i went to Phil. myself and have to disagree. They stare less because they know more foreigners and more about their culture. but they are definitely petty, jealous, vindictive and childish. much worse than China, given they've been exposed to foreign culture as much as Japan. i'm entitled to my opinion too.
