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Q: Why the disharmony between laowaigentlemen and mike695ca?
Did you use to be friends, what happened, or do you both just rile each other up. A neutral but very nosy enquiry.
Mike periodically gets "riled up" at one forum member or other.
His hissy fits are a given. The only variable is how those forum members react. Regardless of how they react, however, the vendetta lasts forever.
I (being one of the lucky recipients) am a person who prefers reconciliation (Love you, Mike), but considering I am a "c__t", "bastard" and "Nazi", I suspect reconciliation isn't on the cards.
The forum members who attract Mike’s “displeasure” tend to be critical/rational types. Being part of the “makes Michael mad” group is therefore something of an accolade.
Mike's opinion on any topic can be summarised as "I have status because I have a car." His various avatars have been pictures of cars, and pictures of himself (sticking his chest out) with cars.
His assessment of China is basically "I hate peasants, especially if they have a car, because peasants shouldn't have status" (remember that if you are Mike, status = car). To be honest, I’m not sure what the crucial difference between Mike and a cashed up peasant is. Except for the aggression.
To summarise - Anyone attempting a more critical deconstruction of Chinese social phenomena than “I hate peasants” runs the risk of "awakening the Mike", which is a minor but permanent irritation.
Fortunately, I have as little use for Mike's opinion as that of anyone who poses in front of cars.
mike695ca:
Wait, when have I called you a cunt??? P.S i dont stick my chest out. I just have moobs. And im sensitive about that thank you very much.
mike695ca:
No shit. Its there. Clear as day. I only pull that one out on special occasions. You know, cuz im a gentleman. For the record, i have gotten into it with the majority of members and most of us get along peachy so your whole vendetta for life schtick doesnt fly. Im not the one bringing up links from 8 months ago. And you got me. Dead to rights, Your whole analysis of me is bang on. Cant deny it. I just wonder if you ever felt the need to analyze yourself as well. Perhaps you and your ilk go too far in the other direction and this is why we clash. For every " kill the peasants" rant i go on there is a " china is a materialistic shithole that doesnt appreciate me" rant on your side. I dont expect you to even consider the possibility because you have never ever heard a good point that didnt originate from you but just maybe. You did notice there is a certain kind I clash with. You called them.critical/rational but I would argue that rational people at least try to listen to others from time to time.
ambivalentmace:
moobs are great padding for when you hit the steering wheel, think of it as a second air bag in case someone at the factory forgot to put one in the car.
ScotsAlan:
Good summary samsara. Mike has riled me a few times. He is confrontational (spelling?). But hey.... so what. He posts. And because he posts he is a sort of mate. I see his viewpoint. All posters on here are mates. If we did not post there would be no forum. How boring would that be...... Next time I am in Shenzhen....
Robk:
Mike has never riled me up. You want to know why?
Because people who take people on the internet seriously really got way more issues than Mike lol. In a world full of deceit, deception and lies... Mike calls it as he sees it.
I like that... I like Samsara too who over-analyzes everything (like I tend to do)... and comes out with truths and facts. It is possible to be rational and irrational at the same time... it's 2015 here! Being crazy is trendy now (and in my case, necessary for survival in China). .
laowaigentleman:
@MIKE
You have moobs from all the semen you swallowed to get the money to buy your middle aged gay cruising car. All those donkey punches you took are the reason why you're unable to spell.
No reconciliation from me, you walking poster child for the re-implementation of medieval sumptuary laws.
laowaigentleman:
@mike
I am sick of arguing with you, so if you back off with the abuse then I'll leave you alone.
You know that every time a fight starts it's caused by you.
I said some terrible things and come across as a total arse, which I am, but you're at least as bad as me.
I'm not one to miss a lesson. We both look bad fighting so we ought not to do it. Neither of us grew up here, so we ought to know better.
icnif77:
Is that how people became gay?
OK, please both report to the Board, when you'll start with actual 'hands holding&hugging'.
Would you like a spoon to stir the shit or are you ok using your hands?
BHGAL:
entertainment ..I'm not up to stirring the pot just now, but watching to see if it will boil.
"a watched pot never boils"
sexual tension i reckon. they ll be serious manlove in the future, then no more aggro
laowaigentleman:
That would be one-sided because he is a proud Audi driver.
dokken:
hey an A3 isn't gay. I know plenty of straight hairdresser girls who own them
laowaigentleman:
The only time an Audi doesn't have a bottle of anal lube in its glove compartment is when it's driven by a female hairdresser.
Whenever I hear a story about a middle-aged man found dead in his Audi in the inner city I know a coroner's report is completely unnecessary.
Alpha males 
Dont take this seriously dudes. Shake hands and be happy. Many of us have had our little battles on here. The pleasure of a good fight is always the making up afterwards.
I once displayed a lack of deference to a so-called Chinese entrepreneur. I stated it was highly likely that her father gave her the money.
Mike is quite thick as you no doubt can tell, and because he now makes what must be quite decent money, he likes to convince himself he is superior to people who earn less than him.
A vulgar, simple minded materialist. Certainly never a friend of mine.
Life's too short to waste listening to the tripe he comes out with, but it impresses certain people for god knows what reason.
He's a proud racist too. It's always been ironic that people who prejudge others are the sorts who if you weighed and measured them, you'd definitely find wanting, but he's too thick to consider the irony and hypocrisy of his positions and he's too "rich" now to keep his head down and his mouth shut.
Whenever I read people's positive responses to the shit he posts I'm convinced there's a lot more lead particles in the air here than we'd like to admit.
laowaigentleman:
In fact he reminds me of a good quote from Dennis Miller:
Instead of trying to ban the Ku klux klan, point out to your kids the irony of the fat guys in the piss stained bed sheets walking around spouting off all sorts of monosyllabic, eugenic claptrap while all the while claiming to be the master race.
It's because they are both foreigners. As we all know, China is a harmonious society so you'd never get locals waving their handbags about at 10 paces!
Mike695ca is a pucking asshole who isn't afraid to tell it like it is, or speak his mind. I love you, douchenugget. Asscrabs. Sweetie Pie. Farticle Asselerator. .
Mike periodically gets "riled up" at one forum member or other.
His hissy fits are a given. The only variable is how those forum members react. Regardless of how they react, however, the vendetta lasts forever.
I (being one of the lucky recipients) am a person who prefers reconciliation (Love you, Mike), but considering I am a "c__t", "bastard" and "Nazi", I suspect reconciliation isn't on the cards.
The forum members who attract Mike’s “displeasure” tend to be critical/rational types. Being part of the “makes Michael mad” group is therefore something of an accolade.
Mike's opinion on any topic can be summarised as "I have status because I have a car." His various avatars have been pictures of cars, and pictures of himself (sticking his chest out) with cars.
His assessment of China is basically "I hate peasants, especially if they have a car, because peasants shouldn't have status" (remember that if you are Mike, status = car). To be honest, I’m not sure what the crucial difference between Mike and a cashed up peasant is. Except for the aggression.
To summarise - Anyone attempting a more critical deconstruction of Chinese social phenomena than “I hate peasants” runs the risk of "awakening the Mike", which is a minor but permanent irritation.
Fortunately, I have as little use for Mike's opinion as that of anyone who poses in front of cars.
mike695ca:
Wait, when have I called you a cunt??? P.S i dont stick my chest out. I just have moobs. And im sensitive about that thank you very much.
mike695ca:
No shit. Its there. Clear as day. I only pull that one out on special occasions. You know, cuz im a gentleman. For the record, i have gotten into it with the majority of members and most of us get along peachy so your whole vendetta for life schtick doesnt fly. Im not the one bringing up links from 8 months ago. And you got me. Dead to rights, Your whole analysis of me is bang on. Cant deny it. I just wonder if you ever felt the need to analyze yourself as well. Perhaps you and your ilk go too far in the other direction and this is why we clash. For every " kill the peasants" rant i go on there is a " china is a materialistic shithole that doesnt appreciate me" rant on your side. I dont expect you to even consider the possibility because you have never ever heard a good point that didnt originate from you but just maybe. You did notice there is a certain kind I clash with. You called them.critical/rational but I would argue that rational people at least try to listen to others from time to time.
ambivalentmace:
moobs are great padding for when you hit the steering wheel, think of it as a second air bag in case someone at the factory forgot to put one in the car.
ScotsAlan:
Good summary samsara. Mike has riled me a few times. He is confrontational (spelling?). But hey.... so what. He posts. And because he posts he is a sort of mate. I see his viewpoint. All posters on here are mates. If we did not post there would be no forum. How boring would that be...... Next time I am in Shenzhen....
Robk:
Mike has never riled me up. You want to know why?
Because people who take people on the internet seriously really got way more issues than Mike lol. In a world full of deceit, deception and lies... Mike calls it as he sees it.
I like that... I like Samsara too who over-analyzes everything (like I tend to do)... and comes out with truths and facts. It is possible to be rational and irrational at the same time... it's 2015 here! Being crazy is trendy now (and in my case, necessary for survival in China). .
laowaigentleman:
@MIKE
You have moobs from all the semen you swallowed to get the money to buy your middle aged gay cruising car. All those donkey punches you took are the reason why you're unable to spell.
No reconciliation from me, you walking poster child for the re-implementation of medieval sumptuary laws.
laowaigentleman:
@mike
I am sick of arguing with you, so if you back off with the abuse then I'll leave you alone.
You know that every time a fight starts it's caused by you.
I said some terrible things and come across as a total arse, which I am, but you're at least as bad as me.
I'm not one to miss a lesson. We both look bad fighting so we ought not to do it. Neither of us grew up here, so we ought to know better.
icnif77:
Is that how people became gay?
OK, please both report to the Board, when you'll start with actual 'hands holding&hugging'.
Is there 'a latest'? I know they've had some good go's in the past but is there a recent one I'm unaware of?
Look, I'm a regular contributor on here, too. I enjoy what Mike has to say and sometimes I'm with him and sometimes I'm not. But never enough to register any negative sentiments to that effect.
With Laowei I'm usually annoyed in some small manner. But not always. I have expressed these impressions at times.
Seems to me that Mike is happy-go-lucky (albeit a wanker), and Laowei is just a wanker.
For the record, Samsara holds a special place in my pantheon. But, Greek I am not.
Speaking of man love, the person I most admire is Icnif. Talk about guts and determination!
So....how do you think I'm travelling....the thing is, I've just had a holiday.
icnif77:
Guts? They don't let me sleep, mastards! The aliens, who run the US Gov.
I guess, they hate my guts.
'add-it': 'There was a riot or bus accident close to Kashi, with some deaths, few days after you left. I was thinking about you.'
dongbeiren:
@ laowai actually RoyceH is one of the most good-natured forum members. Lighten up a bit, would you?
royceH:
@Icnif...Yeah, I heard about that big crash. It happened the very day we left Kashgar, but we were 25000 feet above it, thank goodness.
I'm always surprised there's not more carnage on the roads here, given the ineptitude and belligerence of the local drivers.
@Laowei...Ta muchly. Not just for the compliment but also for keeping it to less than 5000 words of 10 letters, or more.
@Dongbei....Looks like you've forgiven me for the time i failed to box you with Mike and Laowei in one of their previous stoushes. Thanks.
And how's married life going?
laowaigentleman:
@royce and Dongbei, you're both right, I'm just going tit for tat. I'll back off on the confrontational shit.
Knee jerk reaction only, truly.
Do you really have that much time on your hands that you needed to pull a card from Dr. Phil or Oprah?
Why don't you stage an intervention and make the whole world a happy-happy?
Sometimes, calling another person a dumb fucking cunt is the only way to gain their respect. Everyone hates a "Yes" man.
icnif77:
'bloing' must be very 'funny' sound. It must be some kind of metal involved.
Laowai and Mike have pretty unique personalities on this forum and they come from polar opposite perspectives. Mike is the materialistic worldly type who has moved from esl teaching into a pretty well-paying corporate gig and he's damn proud of it. So proud that he enjoys spending time on a forum populated by esl teachers thumbing his nose at and continuously making snide remarks about them. Mike is richer than most people on this forum and he's very sure to point that out. Oh and he has an Audi and spends lots of money on meals (I think he mentioned that a few times). Now, Mike likes to get people riled up with his style but I actually quite like the guy. I've had my feud with Mike on this forum and I'd say we're at peace now. The guy is a prick and he knows it but he also calls out BS when when he sees it and he isn't afraid to speak his mind. He eschews political correctness and actually makes some pretty damn good points. Despite his obvious faults and hypocrisy (bragging about material goods while looking down on Chinese "farmers"), Mike is one of the most unique and colorful forum members. ECC is a better place with Mike on it.
Laowai on the other hand couldn't be more different from Mike. Laowai left his decently paying career to live a spartan life in China as a teacher (his words) and looks down on anything related to business, profit-seeking and wealth. When the gangster driving down the street in a large expensive SUV spits out the window, Laowai thinks about how he is superior to that gangster peasant whereas Mike would likely look up to him for his conspicuous consumption while still calling him a farmer. Laowai is the academic type who likes to show off how smart and knowledgeable he is, which sometimes comes across as pretentious and irritating but he clearly does know what he's talking about on a lot of topics. He also sometimes comes across as bitter and twisted by trying to make himself seem superior to people who are more successful than him by society's traditional metrics. He's the poor teacher looking down on the successful businessman whose success he attributes to family money and copying others. Laowai also adds a lot to the forum and the forum is a better place with his perspective.
In short, Mike is a man of the material world who wants to live the high life while Laowai is a man of the academic world who looks down on material wealth and business success. Their priorities and outlooks couldn't be more different. They're also both pretty confrontational (I've had some spats with both on this forum). I'd rather have a beer with Mike to be honest.
hi2u:
Nothing wrong with living well and spending money, just don't be an ass about it. And nothing wrong with living simply, just don't criticize others for choosing to live well.
gouxiong:
Just a small remark. People who voluntarily selected to live 'simple life' rarely advertise themselves as those who abandoned 'good life' and 'well paying job'.
Without accusing anyone from any form of dishonesty I learned that if somebody in his/her relatively young age has an urge to talk about his/her great past so there must be something wrong with the past and/or presence of the person or the person him/herself... In other words either there is no such past or the selection was not exactly voluntary ...
But I do not think this is such a big problem. problem starts when ventilating own frustration over the public media - this is what could be called a bit immature behavior ...
It's surprising how few people on this site express their happiness with their current life - when one except so common whining says that he is very happy with his current life (without forcing anyone to follow his style) so suddenly there is an uproar ...
I also think the best way would be to let the offenses go without reply as there cannot be any winner in them. But strange - it looks like the people in here have the tendency to group into different, very well defined, categories. I would even consider it to certain extent normal 'average person' behavior' when exactly this would not be a topic of criticism of these people towards 'average Chinese'.
I find this site quite amusing :)
dongbeiren:
@gouxiong I agree with your point in general but I'm giving Laowaigentleman the benefit of the doubt here. But yea, anyone who talks too much about the past might have some issues in the present or might be creating an idealized version of their past.
dongbeiren:
@ Mike
Perhaps there's a better adjective to use there (I'm sure Laowaigentleman could help me select one) but yes, you live in the real world of physical stuff where Laowaigentleman is more in the clouds.
royceH:
Yes, yes....I'm pretty sure this is exactly what I would have said. If I was capable of doing so.
Good one!
laowaigentleman:
@gou
My past wasn't a great one but I certainly wasn't a loser in the way I was accused earlier.
It's all water under the bridge as far as these conflicts go, but there were a number of statements implied about my past which I eventually felt the need to correct. I was reluctant to do so for the very reasons you've outlined. You're well within your rights to consider what I said nonsense.
I never made six figures and when I left the factory work to earn less I actually had to take a second job to get myself up to the $60k mark. This was $60k NZ, so I'm indeed guilty of some degree of embellishment. They were fighting words.
Oh, and Dongbeiren, I don't feel superior to the gangster, I just pity how vulgar and misguided he is. He's destined to return as a sewer rat whereas I could possibly break the cycle of samsara, if not at least come back as a primate mammal rather than a marsupial. 
You're alright, it just took me some time to "get" you, that's all.
Oh, one last thing. I'm thick. I'm no academic type. Fuck all that learning shit. It's for gays
At one point or another most have tried to psychoanylize me on this site. Some do a bang up job ( See: donbeiren above) others not so much. But very few seem to get the main point. There definitely seems to be two sides and we all know who is in each side. Now we should be able to speak our points without getting into it. And thats mostly on me, but that wouldnt be fun.
The smartest people here are certainly the ones in the middle, they just sit back and watch and they seem to be the only ones who truly get it. ITS THE INTERNET. There is nothing anyone can say to make to make me upset. Yet some dont get this, so when people show even a little bit of defensiveness for a point that differs from their own. I like to push the buttons. It makes me super happy to see the self appointed brilliant *ahem* gentlemen, lose their minds and start spewing the most foul things at me.
Am I materialistic??? You betcha.
Am I proud I have an Audi?? Sure, find me another.
But am I that proud???? Nah, but the second I throw it out there im gonna get a huge rise out of some people, so I keep whipping it out.
I got this when I made an innocent post about a mojito and a bath and some people lost their damn minds,
Too be honest, im a little disappointed that no one has called me out on using the exact same arguments and lines on the exact same group of people. Seriously I could Just copy and paste these fights by now. Only dongbeiren has even alluded to it.
So is it boredom?? Am I just a bully? I dunno you guys seem to be the experts on me but this place can get pretty dull when there isnt some shit slinging going on. And last night my wife was on a Cantonese soap opera marathon.
This is a forum, not a blog. Its supposed to be a place to share ideas, and it frustrates me when people who have never been open to knew ideas use the place for racist sermons. The funny thing is is that they are not wrong. I agree with alot of what they say. But I really would like to see a little bit of balance with their opinions.
I certainly do not claim to be right all the time, and when people in the middle here set me straight I have on many occasions , copped to it, admitted defeat or at the very least thought about what they said. All without wars.
I dont like or trust anyone who has never been wrong. People that think they are smart and un-open to even considering a different opinion are poop people so I get a kick out of pissing them off. Cant be that smart if they fall for it every time. Thats why samsara gets a little bit of extra props, he at least doesnt get mad.
And, it drives me fucking crazy that these geniuses dont see the hypocrisy in generalizing all Chinese while the most common complaint here is being generalized by all the Chinese! Every news article on this site,is news for a reason! Because its not an every day occurrence. Yet every single article is used by these people to start a new forum on how shit Chinese and their society is. Is it on purpose?? Or do they really not believe that none of those stories are China specific. That they also happen in pretty much every other country in the world. With regularity. But never once is that even taken to account. More bullshit racist rants.
Youll also notice that the group in the middle, who I never seem to argue with or treat poorly are also generally considered the " happiest" here. The Scots, and the Dr.s and the Royces. Where the people on the right seem to be angry all the time. We just arent going to mesh.
Since their opinions are not open to debate and must whole heartedly be agreed upon , i dont see their value on this site. They are here to listen to their own voice and get gratification from others who agree with them. That is it. Especially since I do not agree with alot of what they say i take offence.
Its also funny that with all of their brains they have never taken geography into account when discussing people opinions. Its no coincidence that alot of the farmer bashing or Hunan zombie talk is coming out of Guangdong, and a lot of the hate for the rich is coming from further north. Perhaps we are having different experiences???
Im not sure if this has never occured to anyone or mentioning it would take some of the sting away from their rants at the Fox news desk. The fact that people use such strong language also doesnt help. There are never any words like " the majority" " most" " often" it is just so concrete.
All women are gold diggers!
All people with money got it from family corruption!
Im sure they are smart enough to know that a simple " Most people with money got it from family" would be an argument that zero people could say anything to. Yet they dont. Im not sure what the motivation is.
dongbeiren:
Upvote for plugging my psychoanalytical abilities. I'm just waiting for another forum member to call me a sycophant
mike695ca:
One last thing. How come no one has called me a straight up liar??? Thats internet fighting 101. People can just sit back and say" I dont believe you Mike, you dont have an Audi", and let me lose my mind. Am I that convincing as a materialistic douche??? Dont answer that.
gouxiong:
I do not think you do not get upset - otherwise no reason for such long post and many short comments. But I trust you it does not effect you much.
Unlike many other people I believe that almost all money are well deserved because one thing is to earn money and the other one is to keep them (and if possible multiply them).
I also think that money in this world are important and the more the better.
I also like money and I certainly have enough to satisfy so far all my needs. Do I want more? Sure! Would it change my life noticeably if I get double? No, I already now can afford basically all I want to.
Are the money the most important thing in the life? For me no. But I still prefer my life with the money rather than without them. For me the money is a freedom - only after having enough I can select freely what I want to do with my life.
Do I envy to people who have more money than me? No, I do not. If I cannot earn money on my own so I am not interested in them - I prefer my money come along with my self esteem and I can be proud of myself (not that money would be the only evaluation scale though ...).
I honestly do not know why so many people have such a hostile attitude to everybody who does not follow 'their only right' perspective ...
I personally do not care if a young, dynamic person selects to become a 'monk' and swears poverty - I would just never do that but I am absolutely fine with the other person free choice.
I know where I stand, I know where you stand. And nobody smart ever argues, and certainly doesn't need to name call on the internet. We are all adults here.
-One thing that is true, and even bigger than China, is that for close to a thousand years, the liberal arts had a certain standing in the west. To be able to quote Latin, and explain why Dante was a good poet were the marks of a educated continental man. From Tolstoy to Henry James, from Umberto Ecco to Murikami literature art and history had a certain standing.
-That world is no more. Physics and technology have replaced useless liberal arts degrees. There is no job in being 'bright'. University professors in the humanities are paid virtually nothing. My friends are! actually teaching! IN THE USA! At college. They make less than a McD's manager.
Obviously it sucks that teaching in China is a better life than getting a Ph.D in Philosophy. But that is what has happened. Of course people are bitter.
-I think you are a soulless twit with a nice car. But here is the main issue. You could, if you wanted, buy "teach yourself Italian" and spend 6 months and get a basic grasp of Italian poetry. I could NOT buy an Audi. Not now. Not in six months. Not ever on my salary.
-How does one draw the line between jealousy and ambition?
mike695ca:
well I guess the main argument is that even with all the money in the world id be too stupid to ever get it.
gouxiong:
Can I ask from where came the shortcut that people who earn money cannot be interested in history, philosophy or any other similar subject?
On top of that from where came the shortcut that all people who are interested in literature and 'liberal arts' are the smart ones?
And how this all is connected with the soul? Especially in Asia where apparently the Christian religions (all sects) does not play any major role?
And last but not least why the people interested in 'liberal arts' should be better than those who are not?
When I would disregard the last point of your post so I could just guess that it's a sigh of 'liberal artist' who wants to have more money for his hobby and life but is not exactly able to make it without seriously limiting own involvement in 'liberal arts'. Fair enough even though I would think twice about ventilating it over expat forum as it's a bit impossible to find a solution here.
With the last paragraph it gets a strong flavor of jealousy ...
laowaigentleman:
@mike
If the most gifted human spent their entire life endeavouring to learn everything possible to learn, by the time they'd reach eighty they'd only know about 1% of all the possible knowledge out there.
You know who said that? Not Buddha, but Thomas Sowell - the consummate capitalist apologist and you know what. He is so right. You're doing something right man, and no-one can adequately articulate what that is.
If this were Wrestling.. (The real kind, not that fake Olympic crap) the main story lines would be "Mike versus Mateuz" and after that feud ended, it'd be Mike versus the next guy... then Mike versus Laowai Gentleman... then Mike versus the next guy... and in between those it would be Mike versus random guy for one night while they're developing the plot in its next direction. Aside from that we have a few sideshow acts which all humor, surprise , annoy, or abhor.
