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Q: Why do so any expats in China pass off blatant racism as 'part of the culture'?
You know the things I mean: being stared at, shopping inspected, neighbours following you into your home to have a gawk, forever being called a foreigner by 'friends,' being told that we can't understand things about China because we're foreign, being ignored by staff in restaurants/stores/etc, having to accept ignorance as 'cultural differences' ... the list goes never seems to end.
Blatant racism was 'part of the culture' before the Civil Rights Movement in the US, before the end of the Whites Only policy in Australia, South African apartheid and so on. Only, these weren't part of the culture -- they were government sanctioned abuses of power and were seen to be so by right-minded people.
So, why do people who KNOW that these attitudes are wrong pass them off as acceptable in a country where they find themselves a minority? And don't pass the buck and say that in China even Chinese from the next city/town/village are treated the same way. That's crap and no less wrong were it the case.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.
I would say that Chinese attitudes fall into the second and third parts of this prayer.
yian:
Yay, Captain Cliche's back! May God give me the strength to suffer fools gladly.
Racism isn't being different, it is the view that you are superior or inferior based purely on your race, (or more narrowly on the nation of your birth).
So someone shouting 'look a foreigner' or coming into your home uninvited, who does not display a feeling of superiority or inferiority, is not necessarily racist. Of course it may well make you uncomfortable and is most definitely rude, (indeed I ended up physically ejecting our neighbour from our flat), there is no indication it is racism unless they shout 'look at the foreigner, aren't they useless compared to us' (or some such comparison). If someone is rude to you as far as I'm concerned you are entirely within your rights to be rude back, when women stare at me I've fallen into the habit of overtly and obviously staring directly at their breasts, they usually get the hint very quickly.
I cannot in any way see the link to apartheid either in S. Africa or its equivalent in the southern states of the USA where people were segregated and allocated things they could or could not do based purely on race.
yian:
Sure, if you take 'racism' in its narrow sense. I'm obviously talking about a wider conception that is not as in-your-face as segregation, e.g. would you point out Chinese people to your friends back home and yell 'Ni Hao' at them? Would you try to walk into other people's houses just because they're foreign and you want to have a look? Would you purposefully ignore a person based on their skin colour?
These are examples of racism. Maybe, you (a hypothetical you) don't identify as a racist, in the sense of being superior, and can justify your actions as interest/disinterest in the differences between yourself and the foreigner. However, the actions in being directed toward a particular group are of themselves stereotyped by their focus on a person of another race.>
Hugh.G.Rection:
Then we will have to disagree.
They are examples of rude behaviour, but without knowledge of the causes of that behaviour you can only work on the assumption that it is racism, which by using your own definition of racism given above is of itself racist.
snowballeffect:
Most of the time anybody who tries to say 'hello' or say anything to me are just being curious/friendly/trying their english or a combination of all 3.
I do think however that some people here are a bit anti-immigration, anti-westernisation, and anti-foreign imperialism. Having those beliefs would not make them a 'racist' either, and are totally acceptable and open minded viewpoints.yian:
I'm sorry, you're right, my tone was condescending. I've removed the 'my friend' sentence.
Also, it looks like we're both valid in our conceptions of racism -- there's little academic agreement on what actually constitutes racism in its broader sense.
In terms of political correctness, absolutely. I'll stand my ground and say that I believe in being politically correct on race. It doesn't always work and it's a much better person than me who can honestly claim to never spout racist, offensive or plain dumb-as-mud ignorant statements.
Hugh.G.Rection:
Thank you Yian, my post has similarly been edited.
I don't doubt that SOME of the people who do the things you listed are racist, but it is, in my opinion, dangerous to assume they are without proof, we have not yet succumbed to thought crime, (unless of course you are a Christian).
I strongly believe that racism is one of the most evil things in modern society and therefore by labeling things racist when they are not or may be not you are in effect diluting the abhorrent acts that are the 'real' racism.
China is a homogenous society...not a multicultural one and devoid of Judeo-Christian values...instead having their own "Buddhist beliefs with socialist/capatalistic overtones when and where we see fit" . We are the exceptions, not the rule.
Methinks you are a younger pup fed from the milk of political correctness. Across the pond, we must accept and adapt to those who come to our countries...giving up religious and cultural traditions to fit the newbies. China simply says, "To heck with you!" and expects you to integrate into their society ("When in Rome...") with the added caveat, "You will never, and can never, be one of us."
Just remember, "Never raise your hand during a hijacking to indicate that you get a kosher meal." Why come to a country that you can, with a simple Google search, find that does not accept and integrate those who are not Han Chinese? The earth revolves around the sun, the ultimate power in the solar system, not around us.
nevermind:
Oh yes massa, I shooowww don't wan da boss man mad me, that's fo sho.
It's mutually beneficial. Next time a Chinese stranger sees you, puts his finger in your face, and has some sort of retard-seizure from screaming "LAOWAI", remember that he enjoys himself, and you can quietly pat yourself on the back for how culturally sensative you are. It's a win-win for both of you.
it has nothing to do with culture. it has everything to do with rudeness, racist beliefs and ignorance; all govt sponsored. some people think that making excuses for "minority cultures" is a virtue. i disagree, i think it is delusional.
Ignorance isn't necessarily racism. At least it's out there for everyone to see. Not hidden and brewing. Although I do agree it's a sad reality. "Unfortunately" since its not institutionalized it's much harder to argue with. And discussions will indeed boil down into some sort of apologetic nonsense. Personally the staring I don't mind, I do mind the teller giving change to a Chinese with me when I paid the bill.
Well, like Uncle Helanren said, ignorance isn't necessarily racism. China is essentially a homogenous culture, so anything outside the norm gets you stared at. Some people have never seen a foreigner before, and they really want to. I don't see how that's racism.
Most of that stuff never happens to me, but I actually confront people on the absolute idiocy of trying to blame culture on the fact that they've behaved in an utterly stupid manner. If they came into my home to have a gawk at me, I'd immediately kill them and burn their bodies. I'm not too big on trespassing here, there, or anywhere.
The foreigner thing does chap my ass, though. I've met people who've lived here for well over 10 years, and everyone calls them a foreigner. That's one of the downsides of a homogenized milk culture; it gets sour.
The racism is really nasty. I've actually seen the way they treat Africans here, and other expats. It's like somewhere along the line, they got the idea into their head that they're somehow massively superior to all non-Hans.
I don't get mad at the "Laowai!" and pointing because people who do that tend to be genuinely amazed at your presence cause they haven't seen many foreigners before and often don't mean anything by it. So that's no big deal. But, the way they treat and talk about uyghers or other ethnic groups that they are familiar with is disgusting.
I would consider the ripping off of foriegners, cabs passing by and other things to be very racist and unacceptable though. Genuine curiosity that may come off as rude I don't mind.
诸葛亮:
No kidding.
But the laowai thing chaps my hide: when someone has made an effort to integrate themselves into Chinese culture, but is still regarded as an outsider, it just seems incredibly ignorant, rude and insulting.
It is impossible for one to integrate oneself into Chinese culture; the culture is essentially a closed culture, as a result of history, the lack of immigrants, the total physical near homogenity of the race, even if they are minority peoples present here. It is also culturally impossible for one to integrate oneself into Japanese culture, and Korean culture and Vietnamese culture for the same reasons. Perhaps its an Eastern Asian things, I just don't know.
But then again, it cuts both ways. I undestand the name calling, the laowai stuff, the special prices for the foreigners, but anyone coming here should be aware of that. It will not change because of a series of posts on echinacities.com and frankly it will never change.
Racism is tedious and it exists everywhere. I can recognise the racism in the points you make, but would you not consider the question, 'Why are Chinese bosses so stupid?' (a recent question of yours) to be racist? God knows which members of this forum it may well have caused offense to, but it certainly trumps being pointed out and having someone say 'hello' to you in the street.
Two wrongs don't make a right, mate. Two rights and a left however, will take me to the late night off license, which is where i'm going now. They are very nice to me in there. I'm a good customer.
All the best to you Yian; I like most of your posts.
