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Q: Why do so many foreigner workers keep accepting shady jobs?

I'm finding again and again people who are working in the 'gray' area of employment here. Why? Why do they continue to work for these shady unlicensed companies or shifty agencies when there are plenty of legitimate, licensed employers who can ensure your paper-work and documentation are fully legal?

Sure, I can understand that the laws involved in hiring foreigner's in China seem subjectively applied, but when all said and done, if you've not done your due dilligence, or been willing to walk away within the first month of starting with an employer, then who's to blame when the P.S.B. come knocking? Also, having the illegal status hanging over your head let's these a-hole employers treat you like crap and ensure continued contract violations because what're you going to do? Complain and they can dump you like a stone and put you in a very bad place.

Sorry about the rant, but it just annoys me, both that Chinese employers keep employing illegally, and that foreigners keep accepting illegal employment. If you're reading this and thinking of coming to work in China, I'd say come, try it... but be prepared to just get on a plane to somewhere else the moment you find your employer is not compliant with Employment or Taxation Laws. Because it's YOU who will suffer the potential 'administrative detention' and expulsion, or have wasted years with no progression because you can't change jobs. Why do that if you've got the requirements for legal employment?

1 week 4 days ago in  Visa & Legalities - China

 
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A lot of the teachers I know arrived here on a tourist visa many years ago and fell in love with a Chinese girl. They did visa runs to Hong Kong every couple of months and worked here the only way they knew how. They got married and decided to make China their home and continued to teach English to support their families here in China but then the law changed and all of a sudden you needed a whole bunch of paperwork to live and work in China. Now there is a trade war and the PSB and police harrass the foreigners. Do you see the problem now? These guys are not doing anything wrong, They are simply trying to live in peace and earn a living the only way they know how. They are working. I respect each and every one of them because at least they are willing to work instead of going out and commiting crimes. My father always said that a man needs to work. If he doesn't work then he isn't a real man.

RobRocks:

well said

this is what it was like

1 week 21 hours ago
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Quinn68:

Yeah, my dad said something similar. He once tipped a bagger at the local ghetto mart $5.00 and I asked him why. He said the guy did a good job and earned it. He said all work is noble. While I often struggle to find nobility while teaching in China, I always respect every foreigner who works here. Except for the Nigerians who sell drugs in Sanlitun and amazingly never get caught by the police. Guess the local five oh has orders to look the other way given all the natural resources being exploited in Nigeria.

1 week 1 hour ago
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Azriaphale760493:

I get what you're saying, I possibly worded it wrong. Yep, I get that folks just want to work, make money, have a nice life. I appreciate that. It's just disappointing to discover again and again ex-pats being screwed over by Chinese employers who could (and should) put them on the right Work Permit, but just won't for 'Chinese Reasons'. 

Use them up, and throw them out seems to be the order of business here. Sure, I've got my paperwork in order, and if I'm being honest, I benefit in the market due to being one of the few who are legitimate. My first job in China, years ago, screwed me over by promising to change L to Z, but only changed to F. Luckily I'd never really expected to work here, so hadn't changed my flights, so I walked out, found another employer who could sponsor a Z Visa, flew home, did my paper work and started again in China two weeks later. 

What I'm getting at is I'd of thought by now folks coming here would know what to expect, and prepare a parachute exit if promises aren't kept. As long as new blood fails to read up on potential issues and is prepared to walk away, the Shady Companies will continue to use 'em up, throw 'em out. 

The long termers who've built a life but been caught out by the new regulations, sure I have sympathy for them, but again maybe it's time they pulled up a little. Take the stress out of living here by getting everything together. I thought the Hong Kong runs ended a long time ago, but I'm still surprised that people think that's an acceptable way to earn a living. 

Just ranting, I suppose. Not meaning to come down hard on folks who just want to work, just wanted to raise the issue so maybe some can take heed and no longer accept being jerked around. 'Cause most of us don't deserve the jerking, and I think it'd be good if we all remember that it's hard enough living in China, without each of us seeing everyone else as competition and rivals. We're all in the same boat.

4 days 11 hours ago
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1 week 1 day ago
 
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Posts: 438

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I think if you can get a work visa and have all your paperwork in order, you would think these people would choose a legal school to work for. I know you can get tricked and lied to but at the end of the day it's up to you to navigate the BS. If you find your employer is fucking you around and not holding up their end of the bargain or lying to you straight up.... it's up to you to find something else. And a person who just landed in China for the first time and its not an easy situation to get out of without help from someone. 

 

And as for unlicensed schools..well they need illegal workers. They need all the Africans and Europeans and South Americans and non BA holding natives and anyone not from an English speaking country. Its supply and demand. Even legal schools need to hire people who cant get a visa for the simple fact there are not enough people to do the job...especially in smaller towns where people don't want to live. It's a big joke anyway, how does having a BA in computer science or any subject and a 30$ TEFL from Groupon qualify someone to be an English teacher?  It's all a big joke in most cases. Some schools are legit but they are definitely in the minority.

 

As for your complaint about these people and schools doing illegal and shady things....well that's their choice and they have to live with the possible consequences of their actions. As long as you have your shit in order I would not worry about what other people do. That will drive you crazy.

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1 week 2 days ago
 
Posts: 63

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A lot of the teachers I know arrived here on a tourist visa many years ago and fell in love with a Chinese girl. They did visa runs to Hong Kong every couple of months and worked here the only way they knew how. They got married and decided to make China their home and continued to teach English to support their families here in China but then the law changed and all of a sudden you needed a whole bunch of paperwork to live and work in China. Now there is a trade war and the PSB and police harrass the foreigners. Do you see the problem now? These guys are not doing anything wrong, They are simply trying to live in peace and earn a living the only way they know how. They are working. I respect each and every one of them because at least they are willing to work instead of going out and commiting crimes. My father always said that a man needs to work. If he doesn't work then he isn't a real man.

RobRocks:

well said

this is what it was like

1 week 21 hours ago
Report Abuse

Quinn68:

Yeah, my dad said something similar. He once tipped a bagger at the local ghetto mart $5.00 and I asked him why. He said the guy did a good job and earned it. He said all work is noble. While I often struggle to find nobility while teaching in China, I always respect every foreigner who works here. Except for the Nigerians who sell drugs in Sanlitun and amazingly never get caught by the police. Guess the local five oh has orders to look the other way given all the natural resources being exploited in Nigeria.

1 week 1 hour ago
Report Abuse

Azriaphale760493:

I get what you're saying, I possibly worded it wrong. Yep, I get that folks just want to work, make money, have a nice life. I appreciate that. It's just disappointing to discover again and again ex-pats being screwed over by Chinese employers who could (and should) put them on the right Work Permit, but just won't for 'Chinese Reasons'. 

Use them up, and throw them out seems to be the order of business here. Sure, I've got my paperwork in order, and if I'm being honest, I benefit in the market due to being one of the few who are legitimate. My first job in China, years ago, screwed me over by promising to change L to Z, but only changed to F. Luckily I'd never really expected to work here, so hadn't changed my flights, so I walked out, found another employer who could sponsor a Z Visa, flew home, did my paper work and started again in China two weeks later. 

What I'm getting at is I'd of thought by now folks coming here would know what to expect, and prepare a parachute exit if promises aren't kept. As long as new blood fails to read up on potential issues and is prepared to walk away, the Shady Companies will continue to use 'em up, throw 'em out. 

The long termers who've built a life but been caught out by the new regulations, sure I have sympathy for them, but again maybe it's time they pulled up a little. Take the stress out of living here by getting everything together. I thought the Hong Kong runs ended a long time ago, but I'm still surprised that people think that's an acceptable way to earn a living. 

Just ranting, I suppose. Not meaning to come down hard on folks who just want to work, just wanted to raise the issue so maybe some can take heed and no longer accept being jerked around. 'Cause most of us don't deserve the jerking, and I think it'd be good if we all remember that it's hard enough living in China, without each of us seeing everyone else as competition and rivals. We're all in the same boat.

4 days 11 hours ago
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1 week 1 day ago
 
Posts: 809

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Corruption allows the FTs who don't meat the 5 top requirements to obtain a work visa. Over the past 12 years I have been here, I (with a capital I) have noticed many FTs are from countries that have lower per capita incomes than the people in this country. As people's income grew so did the tuition rates. Schools that have an FT charge a lot more tuition. Guess where the money goes. The wages of the FTs have not kept pace with the economy here. If it did I would be making 3 times the wage I get now. I am one of the few qualified FTs in this country. So I still have the option to go where I want and say "no" to monkey acts. FTs from poorer countries are more willing to take the chance of being extradited than someone from a 1st world country. Economics dictates your willingness to take chances in life. Like if you had an MBA in education from Yale, why work in Yulin. People know people. This is not limited to China. It happens all over the world. It's just that 1 st world countries tend to have better enforced legal systems. Hence it is easy for a person who obviously  does not meet Beijing's requirements to obtain a work Visa and an FEC. But the schools will try to keep them. This is one of the first indicators that your school is in the "Shady" realm.

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1 week 1 day ago
 
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