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Posts: 19

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Q: Why do so many foreigner workers keep accepting shady jobs?

I'm finding again and again people who are working in the 'gray' area of employment here. Why? Why do they continue to work for these shady unlicensed companies or shifty agencies when there are plenty of legitimate, licensed employers who can ensure your paper-work and documentation are fully legal?

Sure, I can understand that the laws involved in hiring foreigner's in China seem subjectively applied, but when all said and done, if you've not done your due dilligence, or been willing to walk away within the first month of starting with an employer, then who's to blame when the P.S.B. come knocking? Also, having the illegal status hanging over your head let's these a-hole employers treat you like crap and ensure continued contract violations because what're you going to do? Complain and they can dump you like a stone and put you in a very bad place.

Sorry about the rant, but it just annoys me, both that Chinese employers keep employing illegally, and that foreigners keep accepting illegal employment. If you're reading this and thinking of coming to work in China, I'd say come, try it... but be prepared to just get on a plane to somewhere else the moment you find your employer is not compliant with Employment or Taxation Laws. Because it's YOU who will suffer the potential 'administrative detention' and expulsion, or have wasted years with no progression because you can't change jobs. Why do that if you've got the requirements for legal employment?

4 years 42 weeks ago in  Visa & Legalities - China

 
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Governor

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A lot of the teachers I know arrived here on a tourist visa many years ago and fell in love with a Chinese girl. They did visa runs to Hong Kong every couple of months and worked here the only way they knew how. They got married and decided to make China their home and continued to teach English to support their families here in China but then the law changed and all of a sudden you needed a whole bunch of paperwork to live and work in China. Now there is a trade war and the PSB and police harrass the foreigners. Do you see the problem now? These guys are not doing anything wrong, They are simply trying to live in peace and earn a living the only way they know how. They are working. I respect each and every one of them because at least they are willing to work instead of going out and commiting crimes. My father always said that a man needs to work. If he doesn't work then he isn't a real man.

RobRocks:

well said

this is what it was like

4 years 42 weeks ago
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Quinn68:

Yeah, my dad said something similar. He once tipped a bagger at the local ghetto mart $5.00 and I asked him why. He said the guy did a good job and earned it. He said all work is noble. While I often struggle to find nobility while teaching in China, I always respect every foreigner who works here. Except for the Nigerians who sell drugs in Sanlitun and amazingly never get caught by the police. Guess the local five oh has orders to look the other way given all the natural resources being exploited in Nigeria.

4 years 41 weeks ago
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Azriaphale760493:

I get what you're saying, I possibly worded it wrong. Yep, I get that folks just want to work, make money, have a nice life. I appreciate that. It's just disappointing to discover again and again ex-pats being screwed over by Chinese employers who could (and should) put them on the right Work Permit, but just won't for 'Chinese Reasons'. 

Use them up, and throw them out seems to be the order of business here. Sure, I've got my paperwork in order, and if I'm being honest, I benefit in the market due to being one of the few who are legitimate. My first job in China, years ago, screwed me over by promising to change L to Z, but only changed to F. Luckily I'd never really expected to work here, so hadn't changed my flights, so I walked out, found another employer who could sponsor a Z Visa, flew home, did my paper work and started again in China two weeks later. 

What I'm getting at is I'd of thought by now folks coming here would know what to expect, and prepare a parachute exit if promises aren't kept. As long as new blood fails to read up on potential issues and is prepared to walk away, the Shady Companies will continue to use 'em up, throw 'em out. 

The long termers who've built a life but been caught out by the new regulations, sure I have sympathy for them, but again maybe it's time they pulled up a little. Take the stress out of living here by getting everything together. I thought the Hong Kong runs ended a long time ago, but I'm still surprised that people think that's an acceptable way to earn a living. 

Just ranting, I suppose. Not meaning to come down hard on folks who just want to work, just wanted to raise the issue so maybe some can take heed and no longer accept being jerked around. 'Cause most of us don't deserve the jerking, and I think it'd be good if we all remember that it's hard enough living in China, without each of us seeing everyone else as competition and rivals. We're all in the same boat.

4 years 41 weeks ago
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4 years 42 weeks ago
 
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Posts: 511

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I think if you can get a work visa and have all your paperwork in order, you would think these people would choose a legal school to work for. I know you can get tricked and lied to but at the end of the day it's up to you to navigate the BS. If you find your employer is fucking you around and not holding up their end of the bargain or lying to you straight up.... it's up to you to find something else. And a person who just landed in China for the first time and its not an easy situation to get out of without help from someone. 

 

And as for unlicensed schools..well they need illegal workers. They need all the Africans and Europeans and South Americans and non BA holding natives and anyone not from an English speaking country. Its supply and demand. Even legal schools need to hire people who cant get a visa for the simple fact there are not enough people to do the job...especially in smaller towns where people don't want to live. It's a big joke anyway, how does having a BA in computer science or any subject and a 30$ TEFL from Groupon qualify someone to be an English teacher?  It's all a big joke in most cases. Some schools are legit but they are definitely in the minority.

 

As for your complaint about these people and schools doing illegal and shady things....well that's their choice and they have to live with the possible consequences of their actions. As long as you have your shit in order I would not worry about what other people do. That will drive you crazy.

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4 years 42 weeks ago
 
Posts: 78

Governor

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A lot of the teachers I know arrived here on a tourist visa many years ago and fell in love with a Chinese girl. They did visa runs to Hong Kong every couple of months and worked here the only way they knew how. They got married and decided to make China their home and continued to teach English to support their families here in China but then the law changed and all of a sudden you needed a whole bunch of paperwork to live and work in China. Now there is a trade war and the PSB and police harrass the foreigners. Do you see the problem now? These guys are not doing anything wrong, They are simply trying to live in peace and earn a living the only way they know how. They are working. I respect each and every one of them because at least they are willing to work instead of going out and commiting crimes. My father always said that a man needs to work. If he doesn't work then he isn't a real man.

RobRocks:

well said

this is what it was like

4 years 42 weeks ago
Report Abuse

Quinn68:

Yeah, my dad said something similar. He once tipped a bagger at the local ghetto mart $5.00 and I asked him why. He said the guy did a good job and earned it. He said all work is noble. While I often struggle to find nobility while teaching in China, I always respect every foreigner who works here. Except for the Nigerians who sell drugs in Sanlitun and amazingly never get caught by the police. Guess the local five oh has orders to look the other way given all the natural resources being exploited in Nigeria.

4 years 41 weeks ago
Report Abuse

Azriaphale760493:

I get what you're saying, I possibly worded it wrong. Yep, I get that folks just want to work, make money, have a nice life. I appreciate that. It's just disappointing to discover again and again ex-pats being screwed over by Chinese employers who could (and should) put them on the right Work Permit, but just won't for 'Chinese Reasons'. 

Use them up, and throw them out seems to be the order of business here. Sure, I've got my paperwork in order, and if I'm being honest, I benefit in the market due to being one of the few who are legitimate. My first job in China, years ago, screwed me over by promising to change L to Z, but only changed to F. Luckily I'd never really expected to work here, so hadn't changed my flights, so I walked out, found another employer who could sponsor a Z Visa, flew home, did my paper work and started again in China two weeks later. 

What I'm getting at is I'd of thought by now folks coming here would know what to expect, and prepare a parachute exit if promises aren't kept. As long as new blood fails to read up on potential issues and is prepared to walk away, the Shady Companies will continue to use 'em up, throw 'em out. 

The long termers who've built a life but been caught out by the new regulations, sure I have sympathy for them, but again maybe it's time they pulled up a little. Take the stress out of living here by getting everything together. I thought the Hong Kong runs ended a long time ago, but I'm still surprised that people think that's an acceptable way to earn a living. 

Just ranting, I suppose. Not meaning to come down hard on folks who just want to work, just wanted to raise the issue so maybe some can take heed and no longer accept being jerked around. 'Cause most of us don't deserve the jerking, and I think it'd be good if we all remember that it's hard enough living in China, without each of us seeing everyone else as competition and rivals. We're all in the same boat.

4 years 41 weeks ago
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4 years 42 weeks ago
 
Posts: 827

Shifu

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Corruption allows the FTs who don't meat the 5 top requirements to obtain a work visa. Over the past 12 years I have been here, I (with a capital I) have noticed many FTs are from countries that have lower per capita incomes than the people in this country. As people's income grew so did the tuition rates. Schools that have an FT charge a lot more tuition. Guess where the money goes. The wages of the FTs have not kept pace with the economy here. If it did I would be making 3 times the wage I get now. I am one of the few qualified FTs in this country. So I still have the option to go where I want and say "no" to monkey acts. FTs from poorer countries are more willing to take the chance of being extradited than someone from a 1st world country. Economics dictates your willingness to take chances in life. Like if you had an MBA in education from Yale, why work in Yulin. People know people. This is not limited to China. It happens all over the world. It's just that 1 st world countries tend to have better enforced legal systems. Hence it is easy for a person who obviously  does not meet Beijing's requirements to obtain a work Visa and an FEC. But the schools will try to keep them. This is one of the first indicators that your school is in the "Shady" realm.

Douglas.H.Brown:

""an MBA in education from Yale" now THAT'S a shady degree. How many of those have you come across? LOL

4 years 42 weeks ago
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diverdude1:

I think the degrees from uni's here are shady.  I think they are for sale.  It sucks to do things that way!  Everytime I complain about students putting in somewhere around 1 - 5% effort/participation I get told not to worry about it, to just ignore them.   After many years (I'm slow on the uptake, ok?) I've come to determine that they really mean,,,

'Hey, let the students come sit, even lay head down and sleep during class, and we will 'award' them a lovely Degree from China U.  As long as the slaving parents make damn sure and well to make the tuition payments. And as a further bonus we can further boost our library of false China education statistics. We understand and are aware that a high-percentage of the English Majors cannot string a decent sentence together, and never even made the effort to try and learn.  Well, no matter...'

 

It's like getting a Degree @ the bottom of a Cracker-Jacks box...

4 years 42 weeks ago
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4 years 42 weeks ago
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4 years 42 weeks ago
 
Posts: 7

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Hi, I have recently accepted a job in China to teach English, but I've never been to China. Therefore, how do I know that I have accepted a job with a "shady unlicensed company" or a "legitimate, licensed employer"? 

 

I've checked online about my company and whilst there are some bad reviews regarding the company they are still a legitimate company. However, in regards to the work permit they have submitted and the contract they have issued me, I don't know if it's 100% compliant. That is simply because I don't know enough about the laws in China. Plus, I don't know any Mandarin!

 

Therefore, I think the answer to your question is that some foreigners simply don't have the knowledge and just trust their employers. I certainly do not wish to engage in any illegal activity or have some."illegal status" over my head, but if my employer has screwed me then I'm not sure what I could do about it! I've applied for all the correct documents so from my side I've done everything correctly.

 

By the way, I just came across this website today so please feel free to redirect me to any articles I might find useful. Thanks!

 

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4 years 38 weeks ago
 
Posts: 1153

Shifu

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Deleted 'cause of profanity!

biggj123:

Well, I would not say that is always the case. People get tricked by agents and schools. Especially when you're just talking to people online from half way around the world trying to discuss things about a job. They can lie and promise many things and it can not be true. Even if they get you a Z visa, you can still be lied to about the contract, work hours, apartment... lots of things. Especially if you have 0 experience with china or its culture and English teaching here in general.

 

And then there are people to want those shit jobs because they don't have the proper visa and they can jump ship whenever they want. Most of the time the school needs you more than you need them. As long as you can stay away from the authorities its almost a better way to do it. How many time you heard of employers holding passports or not giving release letter and all kind of shady shit. Both legal and illegal have their advantages and disadvantages. Although legal is better if you're with a good employer.

4 years 31 weeks ago
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icnif77:

'cause China is very sunny country.

You need some shade all the time. 

4 years 31 weeks ago
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4 years 31 weeks ago
 
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Answer of the DayMORE >>
A:  "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "S
A: "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "Shenzhen agent can connect you with an employer, who's authorized to hire waigouren ... and can sponsor Z visa." It's not like every 10th person you meet in Shenzhen's hood can sponsor work visa ...  The only way to change from student to labourer visa is just a regular way by: 1. Finding an employer, who'll apply for an Invitation letter; 2. Exit China and apply for Z visa in your home country's Chinese embassy; 3. Enter China in 30-days after Z visa was stamped into your travelling instrument ...As I am aware, you won't be able to switch to Working permit by remaining in China....,so make ready for a return to your home .... -- icnif77