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Q: Why do they always talk about the foreigner?
Yesterday I went to the restaurant with my girlfriend, a group of 3 Chinese gays.. I mean guys sat down at the next table.
They couldn't help themselves but talking about the foreigner, "he must be a teacher" (yeah right, every foreigners in China are teachers), "why is this girl with him?" (why do you mind?), "he is this and that" (and you are an ugly Chinaman), "she should be with a Chinese man" (racist fuck).
After a while I looked at them, and said to my girlfriend "看! 沒有受過教育的農民!" (Look! Uneducated peasants!) even though she speaks English, to what she agreed and we had a laugh at them.
One of the guys totally lost it, he was really angry and said something like they are not peasants but entrepreneurs. My girlfriend said then behave like entrepreneurs, not peasants, mind your own business.
Sure if I would have been a Chinese dude they would not even have noticed us.
Glad you and the missus set them straight. I liked your lady's last line there. It's cool their chatter didn't make her self-conscious like it would some chicks here - she's a keeper.
Just like any culture, this place has its share of goddamn mouth breathers; it's frustrating here because they assume you can't understand what they're saying (which is the case with me, I have a ways to go with my mandarin but I still pick up key words and get irritated) and lack the common decency that would keep them from talking about people as if they aren't five feet away. Don't judge all of China on these clowns though - they'd be the first (Chinese at least) to go if the country ever took measures to clean up its population.
The best thing to do with these ignorant, bovine creatures and their stark lack of a worldview is to ignore them. Say something snarky to your gal in English while you give a sleight gesture in their direction as both of you break into raucous laughter. As much as I enjoyed (and found very clever) your dialogue with these insufferable apes, it's more fun to strain the few brain cells these dumb bastards have by confusing them than it is to rile them up and potentially incite violence in a public place.
Robk:
Yeah, I agree. To be honest, most "foreigners" in decent shape could probably whip about 3-4 Chinese guys with no weapons (and I have heard many stories of this happening). But those are usually best odds and usually it is 10 -1 and they need broken beer bottles and boards.
It is best to always assume that 50% of the males in the area will gang up on you. Especially, if you can't speak Chinese because the one guy that is pissed off at you will tell them a ton of lies to get them riled up. I have also seen this happen.
I hear ya man, But to be honest I almost never hear the racist shit. Everything else of course. But rarely do they say anything to make me mad. I am pretty confrontational so as soon as I see them staring and begining to talk about us. I make sure they know I am not happy and they should keep to them selves.
Also, having these conversations with them will just make you so mad. They are tooo stupid, and dont understand sarcasm or even name calling. They are just so matter of fact. " But I am not a farmer, I am a migrant construction worker"
To avoid this we do two things. They severely effect our lives because where we go and what we do is very limited, but we are much happier about it.
1: Only go to western restaurants in the downtown core. No one cares or if they did, they dont want to show they care. Or strictly Cantonese places we know. Even if its just 2 of us, I will often pay extra for a private room if I feel im going to be pissed off.
2: Make them mad and screw off before they even get a chance to piss you off. Generally the second I see a group of guys I know will be trouble, I deal with the situation before it starts. " What the fuck are you looking at!!!! " Then eye them down. They will back off immediately and stop making eye contact. Sure, they are talking shit, but I guarantee it isnt about my wife anymore, its about the asshole laowai, and they are doing the right thing and hiding it from me haha.
RiriRiri:
Same here, on every single point. Though I must say even Cantonese bother me these days.
And I got my neighbors in order too. Fucking Anhui peasants who thought they could turn the area into a furniture workshop. They even called the police on me and ended up sermonized by them and my landlord for an hour.
For street situations, I honestly can't say I have been bothered in a while except for morons blocking the way but I don't really give a shit anymore and cut through like it's the Walking Dead.
First blind fucker to hit my pregnant wife, god helps him.
mike695ca:
haha my wife is preggers too. My arms are always cocked and ready with a kung fu chop. We dont walk around too much together unless its in like a mall or something so she walks directly behind me in my wake like a quarterback behind a blocker.
mike695ca:
haha your hallway is a living room too??? Hahah i thought i was alone on that one. I started stealing their shit and leaving it on different floors in the fire escape.
One bitch has 3 strollesr! Plus one of those cars for kids, plus a .....shoe holder wood thingy, i cant remember the name and then she leaves her garbage at her door step.
I have moved her strollers and her shoes, I cant steal them lest I be caught, but I can sure fuck with them.
RiriRiri:
Well it used to be, now it's been cleared. But my main concern was about the wall we share which they used to hack for hours anytime of the day when they weren't moving boards or whatever. Day, night...
Pissed me off, knocked their door, they escalated right away to the point they ended up yelling at each other while me and my wife were joking like "when you declare independence so can we send these wankers back" and she was like "nah what we need is firing squads", shit like that. Sometimes after police shows up (no doubt they expected them to side against foreigner), long story short those apes couldn't keep their shit together and screamed at the agents, physically engaged like they were friends, then ended up being "educated" before all the neighbors.
I didn't even plan for anything. God some people are just so fucking dumb.
Same strategy as you for the wife.
Eorthisio:
I used to have a neighbor who always left her front door open anytime of the day even when she was in pyjamas or getting out of the shower, then called another neighbor a pervert for looking at her for like 2 sec when she was wrapped in towel straight out of the shower. She was hot I have to admit. One day she moved out. In another residence a family letting their kids play in the hallway as if it was their living room, well until another neighbor complained to the community manager.
Lord_hanson:
My neighbour also keeps all his shit in the hallway. Sometimes I stack it all up directly outside his door to block the entrance. If I am drunk and come home late I sometimes throw his crap into the bins outside.
This happens quite a lot and it has a lot to do with psychology but mostly insecurity.
I read a book that stated in social situations, almost all humans will act out on their insecurities to hide or totally distract from them.
For example, if you are normally a quiet person (and insecure about this), you might act extremely loud, combative or obnoxious in a social environment so that nobody can say you are a quiet person.
These Chinese men are very insecure about foreigners. They don't like the fact we are with their women, they don't like the fact they don't really know much about us (or our countries) and our presence makes them feel like beta males.
So in order to overcompensate and distract from this... they talk about us or foreigners/foreign land in general. I have been to many places and sometimes they talk about me which I try to ignore because educating 1 billion people isn't my forte (unless they are being pricks), or they just start breaking out about their worldly "knowledge" with whoever they are sitting with. It's like the foreigner gives them a topic of conversation... so they must try to impress everyone at their table with their "facts" about random country X...
On top of that, most Chinese lead insanely boring lives. To be quite honest, if I had their lives and had no way out... I would off myself (which is probably why the suicide rates in Asia are at the top of the charts). As long as they aren't saying rude things, I don't mind... because you are literally making their lives more interesting just by being there for many people.
I also noticed that the practice of staring and whispering about foreigners is slowly dying as they realize it is rude and more foreigners can understand them. If the foreigner does understand and tells them they are rude farmers, they lose face in front of their friends and anyone else around...
You guys may sounds like jerks to other foreigners but the smart ones will know that you guys are actually making China more livable for the rest of us. So thanks for telling those nong ming off!
mike695ca:
One thing I never understood, I know they hate that we " take their women" but on the other hand, why do they get so excited when they find out you have a chinese gf or wife??? that part never made any sense to me.
haha i also love your point about being a starting off point for their worldly knowledge hahah " my friends classmates 2nd cousin went to America. This is why I know that they only eat bread to make their boobs bigger"
Hotwater:
I thought the bread was to make their arses bigger? Or is that just in South America?
Robk:
@Mike - hahaha....
Yeah, I noticed that too. It's like a lot of Chinese males have a sort of inner conflict. On one hand, they hate us for taking the women but on the other it signifies that we have accepted Chinese people (on some level) and are therefore trying to integrate with Chinese... somehow giving them face.
You know like I do that many Chinese people (while not so much on the surface) deeply want to be accepted by the rest of the world. They will NEVER say it, and will die if you accuse them of it... but they do. So somehow taking their women signifies some sort of acceptance? Humans are weird people... especially Chinese.
dongbeiren:
I've also observed the seeming contradiction between complaints of foreigners taking Chinese women and a greater trust of foreigners who have Chinese wives - I wholeheartedly agree with everything Robk says above. Once you have a Chinese wife and can speak some Chinese, the barrier is broken a bit and you become more like one of them and no longer have an impenetrable wall of "different" surrounding you. Now, you can be in China for 30 years with fluent Mandarin and still be considered the foreigner but language skills and family ties will gain you greater acceptance. If you buy a house and discuss money a lot, even more so - common interests and topics of conversation bring people together. On another note, people with general prejudices can make exceptions in individual cases. Kind of like a super racist guy who has one black friend cause that guy is alright or whatever. Chinese might be pissed about the phenomenon of foreigners being with Chinese women but able to accept it when they know the guy and see he's not so bad.
I was at the supermarket today and some peasant started to gack right behind me. So I got angry and told her not to do that. Well all the Chinese in line thought I was bad. I told I don't want her sickness. I said if they want to go to foreign countries they can't behave like that. Had she just said sorry I would have let it slide. In general if anyone starts that two-faced crap I won't be that person.
AladinSane:
Nah, I'm taking her side here. I don't find the spitting pleasant, but your making a scene when nothing was done to directly offend you (as in OP's post) doesn't sit right.
Garbo:
I see your point but I can't tell you how many times I've gotten sick from someone coughing, spitting, or sneezing near me. I was at the exhibition center and it was very crowded, one woman accidentally spit near me and right away said sorry. I said no problem. People finally have to learn not for our good but for their own. What happens if another SARS or Swine Flu comes up again? Whole schools were closed during the Swine Flu.
Hotwater:
If it was in the street is agree with you Aladin but in the supermarket where there's food around it would piss me off. It's totally unhygienic.
dongbeiren:
Once you call someone out you put them on the defensive and start a confrontation - a simple look of disgust and a head shake that registers with them can get the job done without making a scene.
Garbo:
I've seen people let their kids pee and poo in that same supermarket and it's in a nice area of the city. Workers sometimes spit into the frozen food bins. At some point you have to make a scene, it's the only way some people will learn. Spitting near people or near food in a supermarket. I think not. I think people's behavior is getting worse not better. It's the case in Beijing anyway .
AladinSane:
I guess that's a good point; I know the spitting and the poor bathroom etiquette where children are concerned even frustrates a lot of Chinese people.
royceH:
What sort of neanderthal spits into a frozen food cabinet?
What this country needs is a civilized leader.
Like; " Good morning my fellow Chinese citizens....I just want to let you know I've decided that from now on anybody who spits on the ground will be dealt with in a serious manner. If you spit into the frozen food cabinet I'm afraid you'll have to be eliminated. Thank you for listening and have a nice day."
And, BAM! Problem sol ved.
Arseholes!
Glad you and the missus set them straight. I liked your lady's last line there. It's cool their chatter didn't make her self-conscious like it would some chicks here - she's a keeper.
Just like any culture, this place has its share of goddamn mouth breathers; it's frustrating here because they assume you can't understand what they're saying (which is the case with me, I have a ways to go with my mandarin but I still pick up key words and get irritated) and lack the common decency that would keep them from talking about people as if they aren't five feet away. Don't judge all of China on these clowns though - they'd be the first (Chinese at least) to go if the country ever took measures to clean up its population.
The best thing to do with these ignorant, bovine creatures and their stark lack of a worldview is to ignore them. Say something snarky to your gal in English while you give a sleight gesture in their direction as both of you break into raucous laughter. As much as I enjoyed (and found very clever) your dialogue with these insufferable apes, it's more fun to strain the few brain cells these dumb bastards have by confusing them than it is to rile them up and potentially incite violence in a public place.
Robk:
Yeah, I agree. To be honest, most "foreigners" in decent shape could probably whip about 3-4 Chinese guys with no weapons (and I have heard many stories of this happening). But those are usually best odds and usually it is 10 -1 and they need broken beer bottles and boards.
It is best to always assume that 50% of the males in the area will gang up on you. Especially, if you can't speak Chinese because the one guy that is pissed off at you will tell them a ton of lies to get them riled up. I have also seen this happen.
Ho well... Yesterday, I seat in the bus, on my way to downtown. I look ordinary, I don't anything crazy, not even reading a book : I just seat in silence. A man and his kid enter the bus, and seat next to me.
The guy notices me and shout to his kid "Look, look, a *LAOWAI* ! Say Hello to him ! Ho my god ho my god hahahahaha hello, hello hahahaha say hi to him !"
I feel like a animal in a zoo cage, a freak in a freak show. I take a deep breath, I pretend to ignore. The kid feel a bit embarrassed by his dad or uncle, the guy keeps his babling about me, very sure I don't get it. He makes some comments to the guys around about me.
I tell him, in Mandarin "Hey, I'm tired to hear laowai, laowai and comments about me like I'm not there. I understand what you are saying. It makes me feel bad. You are a person, I'm a person, we are people." Deer-in-the-headlights look. I repeat this twice, he gets it, and excuse himself. I tell him "fine, fine".
A minute later, the guy starts to make comments about me with a lower voice, as other guys in the bus. I tell the guy "hey, I can here you and I can understand you !!!". Finally, he shuts up.
"You don't understand China", "if you don't like it leaves it", "it's their country, they do what they want"... Sure, sure. It's totally fair game and there's no "us vs. them" going on, it's not one-sided at all, no no no, I am the problem, not those guys...
Eorthisio:
Ah yes, Chinese logic. A foreigner takes the bus thus he must be an English teacher and it's okay to bully him because he somehow "serves" China. Same thing with foreigners who dress casually. Because everyone knows that professional expats, engineers, managers, entrepreneurs, business people or other expats in ChIna all wear Armani suits and drive down the road in a Lamborghini while constantly throwing money around. Superficiality at its best.
DrMonkey:
I don't think the guy intended to bully me. I think, for him, I'm equal to an alien from an other planet. I'm a human not different from him at all, but he doesn't know it, and will never conceive it until you pay him a 5 years trip abroad in contact with locals. I think he looked at me like a zoo animal, and behaved like he would do it with a zoo animal.
No bad intentions, but he couldn't not acknowledge that we are equal, he could not understand the "don't do to others what you would not like from others". Crass ignorance, a deeply entrenched feeling that Chinese are humans apart from the others, completely unable to attach personal acts and consequences. I blame the system rather than the man, and I strongly believe that voicing indignation can help : yes, I'm a human like you.
mike695ca:
Haha i work in a factory. I wear sweatpants and a hoody every day. JPeople look at me and are sooo confused. Especially if they see the car. They just cant understand why i dont get my 50 kuai paper thin suit dirty with the rest of them.
Robk:
@Eorthisio - Yup,that is totally true. They love hearing you are an English teacher because somehow that means they own you.
You should see the looks when I tell them that I do my own work and all my clients are foreigners. They look at first a bit annoyed, like I insulted them somehow and then that's when I see it... the insecurity... they kind of shut up and don't look too pleased.
But I am very pleased.
Sticks and stones. People look, stare, say stupid shit, take my picture. I don't care. Zero fucks given. I only care about and/or validate the opinions of people that I value. The only thing worse than being talked about... If people stare at me then I stare right back and sometimes I'll pull a retarded face. Sometimes I interact with people if I'm in a good mood. If a group points and says "Hey look! A foreigner!" then I usually respond with " Hey look! A Chinese person!"
Okay, here is a list of some fun things to do to screw with Chinese people when they stare or talk about you:
- point at something random in the sky and tell them kan kan... they will look and some will pretend to see something and some will say... there's nothing there, it's just the sky... then you can reply. Dui, wo zhi shi yi ge di qui ren.. (right, and I am only a human...).
- turn into insane clown mode... when they say "hello" or stare... you do it back to them like you just took 20 cups of coffee with a plate of speed.
- give them a cocky smile, point to your muscles and start flexing your biceps...
- Go up to them and whisper "I know what you are saying/thinking, and it's true. It's HUGE."
Once me , my father and my bf went to a restaurant in China, a few disgusting middle aged women next table kept staring at us and talking.
What I did is staring back at them, even impolitely. They felt ashamed I guess, stopped looking but still talking.
So after that, when we tried to eat out together, just reserve a private table, not in the hall.
Strawberry66:
They may not try to be bad,you know they don't see foreigners often and talk abut you people out of curiosity.
I had an only in China experience today. Some peasant skulked out of a restaurant and hocked a massive loogey onto the footpath in front of him before getting in his porsche and blasting Justin Bieber.
Sha-bi, like a boss...
crass, like a boss...
rugged, like a boss...
uncultivated, like a boss...
There needs to be a remix: like a laoban.
The younger generation gets it - they don't do the "look, foreigner!" too much. Usually they are starstruck, but ask if you can speak Chinese, which is acceptable in my book. Little kids don't have any manners, but that's sorta understandable. The older generation (40's and up) are the super annoying ones. I had an altercation with a 70 year old guy the other day - yeah, 70 years old! He was just adamantly staring, so I stared back. He seemed absolutely taken aback and bewildered that somebody would stare at him! Hahaha. My Chinese GF got pissed at him eventually and scolded him about the staring - and he blew the hell up at her. He kept trying to say he has the right to look at whatever he wants, and was insidiously pointing his old ass finger at my GF as if to shame her. Obviously I jumped the Hell up and blocked him off from any view of my GF - He tried to lean to the side and I moved that way to block him too - I was just angrily sputtering the same 3 sentences on replay like a broken record. I also lunged forward at him and the geezer backed the hell up and started whining to a security guy on the street, who didn't have the slightest care in the world. I'm not proud of it, but he had it coming.
Chhris:
My friend, when someone stares at you a little polite nod can make wonders. 99% of the time they get so happy that a foreigner considered them as a human being and nodded at them that they just start smiling like crazy and nod you back 5 times. Instead, you chose to make a scene and made yourself look like a fool standing in front of your girlfriend and fending off an old man...
jetfire9000:
Fool? Oh please. This wasn't an old man, he was a dumbass farmer. I've seen tons of lovely old people in China and this wasn't one of them. He was adamant about his staring and didn't think anything is wrong despite repeated eye contact being made. In the animal kingdom, that's a big no no. Seems his thinking wasn't even as sophisticated as that. If you could read properly, you'd have noticed that it was my GF that called him out on his crap. I'm just the one that made him eat it. Defending my GF from a rabid wrinkly farmer geezer is a clear responsibility of the man in the relationship - Would you honestly let your gf get scolded by a dumbass living in the last Century? You probably don't have an ounce of testosterone in your body, so I feel sorry for you. I did my role as the protector - something that Chinese girls absolutely love. If you think that makes you look like a fool here then you have gravely misunderstood the law of the land here. Maybe you can find your utopian society where all males are castrated and don't need to show an inkling of manhood.
Chhris:
Yeah but China is all about people staring at you like mad. You are supposed to get used to that in your first week in China. If it happens you just turn your back at the person and you avoid 100% of possible confrontations and may also save your precious testosterone that you just love to rave about.
jetfire9000:
You really must have been given diarrhea for brains. My GF is the one that initiated the incident, and got the old goof off his rocker. "Turning your back" is definitely the wrong move. Ever had anybody in your life? I don't know sh*t about that guy, all I know is he's a bit weird and he's also threatening my GF. Walk away.. right. Spineless guys like you make locals look brave.
You need to grow a pair. There's nothing wrong with defending a woman, and that is also a concept that is very well understood in this country. The man was crossing a very big line when he charged over towards her, at which point I took charge. This is why his whining to the guard on the street got him no sympathy. You're plain dumb. Not just in terms of China smarts, but in terms of general reading comprehension.
you know the old racist stereotype Chinese accent? it's like a high-pitched, wobbly, goofy sounding "HARROW." oh, and very loud, don't forget to say it very loud. a Ricky Gervais comedy show reminded me of the accent; it really cracked me up. i found it's the perfect response to being accosted with "hello"s like it were an animal call. EXCUSE ME, now there's a phrase i haven't heard uttered in years. i miss politeness. whatever happened to *requesting* a stranger's attention?
I think you did the right thing, losing face is the only way to make some people learn a lesson. The fact you called them stupid farmers is classic, the one insult that hurts them the most. The above comments about Chinese not liking you stealing "their" girls but becoming excited when they learn you have a Chinese wife are funny. I always thought it was becausewe chose Chinese over any other nationality so Chinese must be best. They feel it gives them slight face.
That's the other thing that needs make like Cindy Lauper and disappear from China: the damn obsession with face over competence.
You know what I find funny...I like drinking with farmers and such...they don't really bother me. What bothers me are when educated Chinese people say crazy stuff like "Mao made some mistakes." No dumb ass....2+2=5 is mistake.
Farmers and construction workers can be quite nice IF it is the right setting. You just have to drink heavily, and keep thinking "What was Tolstoy smoking?"
RiriRiri:
I might just be speaking for myself, but by peasant I don't really mean farmers or even construction workers.
Why are chinese guys so jealous?
Why dont you go to foreign countries and steal their girls in there?
Can you do that? You cant!!!!
Then you should just shut up and accept the reality!!!
Strawberry66:
Should we have a forum with White men talking with Chinese men?
OK. Let me answer your question from a Chinese point of view that makes it less complicated.
First of all, do Chinese talk about foreigners in front of them? Yes they do. Why? people talk about things that are less seen, such as a foreigner in china.
then they thought chinese is one of the most difficult languages in the world, with all the different dialects, how can a foreigner understand them? especially when they have no idea what you are talking about, so talk without worrying about thing.
And lastly, which is also the most important part, EVERYONE'S BUSINESS IS A CHINESE BUSINESS AND THEIR BUSINESS IS EVERYONE'S BUSINESS.
you may or you may not have noticed this, there is no such as thing as privacy or things you don't talk about in china. your age, your salary, your phone number and of course, your gf, anything is a Chinese's business.
and even so if you want to marry her, and if you don't have a baby within a year after you are married, something must be wrong about you, you will hear about this kind of discussions everywhere in your workplace, in your living communities.
that's perhaps why people in china MUST get married and MUST have a baby at certain age. otherwise you just get annoyed by irrelevant people all the time.
They are just jelous of you getting the girl(They think Chinese women should be with Chinese men,even not with them).
Do not give a shit and tell them they look ugly.
I have noticed the white men look better even in cheap T-shirt than Chinese men on expensive clothes.
My ex wore really cheap clothes but he looks very handsome among those luxury dressed Chinese men.Why?Because he is born to be handsome.
The world is full of competition,now the Chinese men compete with better looking white men who comes to China.Lol.There is a war there.
