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Q: Why is it difficult for Africans to get a job in China

Most employers seek blacks either from US or other European countries but Blacks from Africa are not much regarded. 

7 years 51 weeks ago in  Teaching & Learning - China

 
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'Most employers seek blacks either from US or other European countries....'

 

How do you know that? especially 'seek' part?

 

Only somebody, who's hiring FTs can know that or you must have at least '77' colored friends, who are all from USA, Canada, EU, UK, and they are all working in China as English teachers. I know, you don't!

 

Finding a job is a personal experience, and I didn't meet too many colored English teachers since 2009. Maybe two tops.

I worked in Dalian Kindergarten, where one black student from (I don't remember which African country, she was from) lasted two weeks. Chinese TA told me, kids were afraid, crying. 

Ozz poster here knows some colored people/FTs in his city in Xinjiang.

 

Chinese lived by themselves (Great Wall) for so long, and I'd say they aren't familiar that much with different races around the world.

I believe, requirement of photo with CV on job adverts is to avoid FTs who are colored, overweight, and other million reasons Chinese students wouldn't be happy.

Chinese farmer/outdoor worker is almost second class citizen, because of tan. Chinese all avoid sun exposure as they walk with open umbrellas on sunny or immediately covering windows as soon sun peaks through.

 

Please, don't misunderstand me: 'I am just describing how Chinese are, and I don't have any racist motives'.

 

IMO, it's touchy subject to write about, but that's how I see China.

As looking for part-time gig, I'd say you'll be more successful if you walk/knock the doors of Schools in your city, then sending your CV. Part-time gigs require FT immediately/tomorrow, so I'd say do it in person.

May luck be on your side!

adolfwils1990:

Thanks very much for your mind relieving response to my question. i understand your point of view

   Pictures on CV is very necessary that is why my supporting documents which accompany my CV includes a passport size photo and and a copy of the information page of my passport as well, to make my recruiter know i am Black and also my country of origin.

   I visited a few cities like Kunshan where children of below 7 years felt happy with me and spend time together taken photos and doing some site seeing and other activities. I believe the Chinese children likes blacks and they are proud associating with black people from my own experience.

   I have gotten about 6 interviews with Demo classes which to my best of knowledge my performance was outstanding due to the reaction of the children and their parents but once my employers took my passport for police registration and find out i was from Cameroon in Africa , the story changed.

   From my ascent many employers mistook me for being a Black American as asked by an employer  " Mr Wilson i thought you are from the US." 

   It was after these interviews that i realized i had to put up supporting documents( photo , passport) so i would avoid spending time and money traveling unnecessarily 

  I thank you for your contribution 

7 years 51 weeks ago
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icnif77:

I don't think, it's good for you, if you have an elevated opinion about yourself. It's always better to think opposite, because elevated opinion is usually giving you false hopes. IMO!

Kunshan (stay away from Education First outfit, maybe there's one of my threads here about that outfit. See 'Education First' in search above.) is in Jiangsu Province, where Non-native can't get Working permit as English teacher. In other words, you cannot get Z visa in Jiangsu, what is the norm for most of the Provinces by the coast of China. It is the same in all big cities in China.

Schools you are sending your CV know that, and they won't reply to you, because they can't get Working permit for Non. That is the main reason of no replies to your CV.

Exception: I as Non had Z visa in Fujian in 2014 with Education First, but my working place/Z sponsor was School in Jianou, 300km away from the coast (Fuzhou).

Chinese law about 'only Native English passport holders can work as an English teachers' isn't implemented 100% all around China, same as it is in Japan, Taiwan, Russia and other countries.

In China, granting of WP to Non is free decision of Provincial SAFEA (Foreign Expert Bureau).

I had WP in Liaoning (Dalian, Yingkou), Hebei (Jixian), Xinjiang (Fuk-ang), Fujian (Jianou) and now in Henan (Kaifeng).

I am heading to Guizhou, where the only problem can  be, 'cause my degree isn't authenticated, so we'll see...

7 years 51 weeks ago
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What sort of jobs are you applying for?

What education and work experience do you have?

 

It might be that you're not qualified for the jobs you're applying for. 

 

 

adolfwils1990:

I am applying for a part time or full time teaching job with a bachelor degree in linguistics and modern letter and addition to it a certificate in the international english language testing system (IELTS).

 I have about 2 years experience of all ages in my country

7 years 51 weeks ago
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Hotwater:

Thanks for the feedback.

 

The problem, as I mentioned in my comment below, is that the Chinese goverment doesn't recognise you as a "native" English speaker. So a lot of schools won't be able to get a work permit for you.

 

It might be possible in smaller cities but the bigger cities are enforcing this rule more.

 

Keep applying and hopefully you'll find somewhere that is interested in you and your qualificiations.

7 years 51 weeks ago
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adolfwils1990:

Thanks very much for your response  to my question which is well understood, i am relieved and cleared off some doubts.

 I will try other smaller cities as you advised. I am really pleased hearing from  you and hope we chat again some other time

7 years 51 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

"Certificate in IELTS"???

7 years 51 weeks ago
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iWolf:

@shining Maybe he has done the IELTS test himself.

7 years 50 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

@iWolf - it's a non-sensical statement. Having a 'certificate' in IELTS only says they've done the test, and gotten a score in it. That score could be 1. It has no other meaning. IELTS is not a pass/fail - it's a ranking.

7 years 50 weeks ago
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On like Africans, teaching is a gift. Most Africans in foreign countries always have the zeal and determination to adapt to any change and give out their best to satisfy their employers and students in teaching jobs. Africans should be given the opportunity to prove their skills and learn from your upgraded ideas to benefit the world as a whole

Hotwater:

So you keep being rejected for a teaching job?

 

If you're applying for English Teaching jobs then you have a big problem, not with employers but with the government.....

 

The rules are supposed to be that only native English speakers from 5 countries (UK, USA, Australia, New Zealand and Canada) can get English teaching jobs. Though I believe it is getting easier for South-Africans now.,

 

Of course it's not always the case as there is at least one non-native English teacher on this website. I've met quite a few white Europeans who teach English.

 

But....you do face another problem. A lot of schools don't like employing black teachers, never mind where they are from, as a lot of un-educated Chinese think black people can't speak English properly and only want white people.

7 years 51 weeks ago
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dkharyanvi:

Dear Hotwater; Where is the government-approved list of the recognized or not recognized native speaker countries? May you provide an official web-link of the list for readers of this website? Thanks.  

7 years 51 weeks ago
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Hotwater:

I can't do that as there is not one website that I can refer to. Different provinces & even different cities in the same province have their own rules based on local requirements. So while the bigger developed cities will state native speakers only some other night request the degree was earned in a native speaking country and others even less requirements. 

 

Read the comment from icnif77 on this topic who is a non-native Speaker from Europe who is teaching English legally. 

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'Most employers seek blacks either from US or other European countries....'

 

How do you know that? especially 'seek' part?

 

Only somebody, who's hiring FTs can know that or you must have at least '77' colored friends, who are all from USA, Canada, EU, UK, and they are all working in China as English teachers. I know, you don't!

 

Finding a job is a personal experience, and I didn't meet too many colored English teachers since 2009. Maybe two tops.

I worked in Dalian Kindergarten, where one black student from (I don't remember which African country, she was from) lasted two weeks. Chinese TA told me, kids were afraid, crying. 

Ozz poster here knows some colored people/FTs in his city in Xinjiang.

 

Chinese lived by themselves (Great Wall) for so long, and I'd say they aren't familiar that much with different races around the world.

I believe, requirement of photo with CV on job adverts is to avoid FTs who are colored, overweight, and other million reasons Chinese students wouldn't be happy.

Chinese farmer/outdoor worker is almost second class citizen, because of tan. Chinese all avoid sun exposure as they walk with open umbrellas on sunny or immediately covering windows as soon sun peaks through.

 

Please, don't misunderstand me: 'I am just describing how Chinese are, and I don't have any racist motives'.

 

IMO, it's touchy subject to write about, but that's how I see China.

As looking for part-time gig, I'd say you'll be more successful if you walk/knock the doors of Schools in your city, then sending your CV. Part-time gigs require FT immediately/tomorrow, so I'd say do it in person.

May luck be on your side!

adolfwils1990:

Thanks very much for your mind relieving response to my question. i understand your point of view

   Pictures on CV is very necessary that is why my supporting documents which accompany my CV includes a passport size photo and and a copy of the information page of my passport as well, to make my recruiter know i am Black and also my country of origin.

   I visited a few cities like Kunshan where children of below 7 years felt happy with me and spend time together taken photos and doing some site seeing and other activities. I believe the Chinese children likes blacks and they are proud associating with black people from my own experience.

   I have gotten about 6 interviews with Demo classes which to my best of knowledge my performance was outstanding due to the reaction of the children and their parents but once my employers took my passport for police registration and find out i was from Cameroon in Africa , the story changed.

   From my ascent many employers mistook me for being a Black American as asked by an employer  " Mr Wilson i thought you are from the US." 

   It was after these interviews that i realized i had to put up supporting documents( photo , passport) so i would avoid spending time and money traveling unnecessarily 

  I thank you for your contribution 

7 years 51 weeks ago
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icnif77:

I don't think, it's good for you, if you have an elevated opinion about yourself. It's always better to think opposite, because elevated opinion is usually giving you false hopes. IMO!

Kunshan (stay away from Education First outfit, maybe there's one of my threads here about that outfit. See 'Education First' in search above.) is in Jiangsu Province, where Non-native can't get Working permit as English teacher. In other words, you cannot get Z visa in Jiangsu, what is the norm for most of the Provinces by the coast of China. It is the same in all big cities in China.

Schools you are sending your CV know that, and they won't reply to you, because they can't get Working permit for Non. That is the main reason of no replies to your CV.

Exception: I as Non had Z visa in Fujian in 2014 with Education First, but my working place/Z sponsor was School in Jianou, 300km away from the coast (Fuzhou).

Chinese law about 'only Native English passport holders can work as an English teachers' isn't implemented 100% all around China, same as it is in Japan, Taiwan, Russia and other countries.

In China, granting of WP to Non is free decision of Provincial SAFEA (Foreign Expert Bureau).

I had WP in Liaoning (Dalian, Yingkou), Hebei (Jixian), Xinjiang (Fuk-ang), Fujian (Jianou) and now in Henan (Kaifeng).

I am heading to Guizhou, where the only problem can  be, 'cause my degree isn't authenticated, so we'll see...

7 years 51 weeks ago
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As someone who has been in a management position with hiring and firing responsibilities I'm just confirming what Hotwater and Icnif77 said.

 

There is a native speaker requirement for the visa which generally excludes anyone outside of the U.K, Australia, U.S.A Canada and New Zealand. I have heard of the rules being relaxed for South Africans though but that may just depend on the individual school's connections.

 

There is also the unpleasant economic aspect. There is prejudice out there and schools are often unable to change how their customers think. Hiring the wrong person is usually a very expensive mistake for them.

 

That being said, this is China where rules don't mean much sometimes and I'm sure there are opportunities out there for you.

 

I'm not trying to discourage you or anything, just saying it like it is. I got called racist by a poster here for saying basically the same thing but that's really not my intention.

 

Good luck mate, hope you find something.

 

 

adolfwils1990:

Thanks very much for your contribution and i just pray i get something small to make a little money to take of my self and my family back home

7 years 51 weeks ago
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Chhris:

What about Ireland? They are also native-English speakers.

7 years 51 weeks ago
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Stiggs:

I'm not sure what the rule is with Irish people, I've heard they can get turned down but then I also know of a few who are working here with no problem.

 

Again, it might depend on where they are and who their school knows.

7 years 51 weeks ago
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sorrel:

Irish people confuse the Chinese.

Native English speakers, Caucasian (mostly), often confused with being from the UK or America, but one look at a passport cover and it flips their brain.

 

apparently the country does not exist.

7 years 51 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

Technically, Ireland and South Africa are not on the list... but that's only because the people making the decisions on who is what are morons.

 

And, yes, I know Irish people who are also employed here.

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What I can understand is that real qualification and teaching experience does not matter much. If then that is the case,is China really achieving their goal/aim especially in acquisition of English. I know of a fact that a qualified and experienced English Language teacher from Africa is more beneficial than a Geology graduate native speaker teaching English.

icnif77:

Step into their shoes for a moment....Who would you prefer as Chinese teacher: teacher from Japan or Native Chinese teacher, considering your knowledge of Chinese is very low as English is of most managers and teachers in Chinese schools?

Only, when they see English teacher hold passport of one the Big 5, they are assured students have proper English teacher. Consider also almost none of the Chinese hiring managers or English teachers have never been outside of China. They all mostly learn English by listening the tapes.

Non-native English teachers can get chance to work in China only because of the huge demand = 300 million Chinese English students.

If I would be manager in Western school, I'd never hire Non-native Chinese teacher ....add-it: ...only, because my Chinese is non existent or very low level of English language of Chinese managers is. I didn't say, Non-native English teacher can't be good. At your School Hot managers certainly could judge proficiency in English grammar and most likely non-existent accent of Indian English teacher. At your example Hot, it is also the same as Chinese would hire Chinese teacher from Zimbabwe, however they all know Chinese and they can judge how good is teacher of Chinese from Africa.

I am looking at the matter from Chinese perspective, so I changed languages into one I am not that familiar with as Chinese. Is there anybody here, who would agree with Non-native Chinese teachers considering you don't speak Chinese? If any answer is 'yes, I would hire Non', how would you know as a manager that Non-native teacher really teach Chinese at your school? Now, think about Chinese managers and English language.

On another note, my (Non-native English teacher) Rec. letters out of the Chinese principals are apparently very impressive. All letters are written in Chinese, and Chinese told me the content of letters.

7 years 50 weeks ago
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Hotwater:

For English teaching is disagree with you here icnif. A fully qualified English teacher (NOT a TEFL teacher) does not have to be a "native speaker" in the way China defines it. 

 

The best English teacher I had in high school was Indian. He had a doctorate in English language/literature and also the correct teaching qualifications to teach in a UK school. Yes he had a slight accent but in the UK if you put a teacher from Glasgow into a school in the east-end of London the kids would have to get used to the teachers accent/vernacular 

7 years 50 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

And one thing the NNES can't teach is accent. Most only want UK or US (Ha!) accents.

7 years 50 weeks ago
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dom87:

he get that bloody accent or those accents that no one understand.

Not all accents are actually good...

In Germany almost all Englisch teachers are non native. Would maybe be better to have a native that perfectly speaks the local language, but that is rare

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https://www.quora.com/People-from-which-countries-are-considered-native-...

 

Native English speakers are those who learn English natively. While there's obviously a correlation between that and living in an English speaking country, it's not absolutely. Someone can learn English natively in Germany or Spain or wherever (because their parents are native English speakers). They can also live in the US and not learn English natively. Obviously, this is much more rare.

That said, people usually would assume that people from the following countries are native English speakers:

  • US
  • Canada
  • Ireland
  • Scotland
  • Canada
  • New Zealand
  • Australia
  • South Africa
  • Wales

 

In China, Native English speakers are considerate passport holders of UK, USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand as I understand, and there's no web link on Yahoo-gle for it.

It is free decision of Provincial/city's SAFEA (Foreign Expert Bureau), who grants Working permit, one of the necessary documents for Z (working) visa application.

I'd say, there aren't fixed rule, which Chinese Gov. follows it as in Japan, Russia, Taiwan, Hong Kong and others.

EDIT: UK is missing . That might be Irish or Scottish web link.....LOL

Shining_brow:

Ever heard of a country called "England'??

 

I'd debate you on "this is much more rare"... for a native speaker in a non-English country, it would mean that at least one of the parents has to be a native speaker of English... eg, Scots' daughter here in China (if we can call Scots' language 'English' :p)

 

However, in the English speaking countries, there are now millions of people who won't have English as their first language, due to migrants. Eg, the US has so many who have Spanish speaking parents (relatives, friends, etc).

 

Anyway - the Chinese gov is stupid! Not being able to understand that passport =/= language ability (much less, teaching ability).

7 years 50 weeks ago
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icnif77:

I see now. I c&p that, because that was the best explanation to be found on Internet. I'll edit it. 7am, I wasn't really reading it.

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Posts: 30

Governor

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well because in china they are racist...fact...

 

to be teacher you dont have to be a british ...and being one of those countries doesnt ensure that they are eligible as teachers.. nor is it implicable that they know english and that is a fact as well.  all these countries have different accents, and also languages....a welsh is also from england, but try learning "the queens english for them", or a scottish or an irish...even london itself is divided.. same goes for USA and other countries...china thinks that everyone from there speaks in the trans atlantic accent of the 50's which is not the case... secondly singapore, hongkong, india, pakistan, and alot of other places have a far better grasp on English grammar than the british themselves. 

 

China is struggling so much like the gulf to give their children those accents that they are forgetting what the language really is, so in practical "hand writing" and grammar doesn't have any weight when it comes to rounding your mouth and talking in a british accent...

 

I remember when we were in school in cambridge our exams were weighted not only of the material but presentation and above all handwriting...if your handwriting sucked you loose more than if your answers were wrong... we had to take 10 pens with different cuts and blue and black for different parts of the paper..,,we loved to write..and write correctly since you can back space...thank god for those erasers...

 

I miss the time of the "fountain pens"....it was better...

 

 

coming back, even though africans and asians are far far far richer people than the west, china sees them as slums, just like when we were coming to china from the west, i thought of it to be bicycles and straw hats but it isnt...it is amazing, and beautiful...just a bit hollow which made the people selfish and shallow...

Hotwater:

You've made some good points but your knowledge of Britain is poor. Wales is NOT part of England, it's part of the U.K.  Guess you did better with handwriting while at Cambridge than at geography and the setup of the U.K.  

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Answer of the DayMORE >>
A:  "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "S
A: "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "Shenzhen agent can connect you with an employer, who's authorized to hire waigouren ... and can sponsor Z visa." It's not like every 10th person you meet in Shenzhen's hood can sponsor work visa ...  The only way to change from student to labourer visa is just a regular way by: 1. Finding an employer, who'll apply for an Invitation letter; 2. Exit China and apply for Z visa in your home country's Chinese embassy; 3. Enter China in 30-days after Z visa was stamped into your travelling instrument ...As I am aware, you won't be able to switch to Working permit by remaining in China....,so make ready for a return to your home .... -- icnif77