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Q: Why is Japan more advanced than China?
They have shared ancestry, look identical and have many shared customs. Why did Japan accelerate far ahead of China in wealth and technology? Was it the cultural revolution?
There are four important terms to know to understand why Japan is much more open than other Asian countries.
Two historical events, the "Fall of Edo" and the "Perry Expedition".
Two governments, the "Meiji" and the "Tokugawa Shogunate".
The Tokugawa Shogunate was a military dictatorship ruling Japan and the last feudal Japanese government, the Shoguns were Japanese warlords and all of them were members of the Tokugawa clan. The various Shogun co-existed together with the Imperial Court of Japan (Meiji) but the Shoguns were the true leaders of the country, they were the military power, the Emperor was the religious and political power.
In the early 1600s Japan began trading with Dutch and Portuguese sailors, they quickly realized how archaic they were compared to those foreign powers, ultimately they understood the importance of technology in international relations.
Too bad for them the Shogunate didn't see this trade and foreign influence in a good way, around 1630 they enacted seclusion laws (yes, bypassing even the Emperor) forbidding foreigners in Japan and trade with foreign powers (with the exception of China, Korea and the Netherlands, only at the beginning).
Japan remaining closed off from the world until the early 1800s when a fleet of warships from the Perry Expedition led by Matthew Perry entered Tokyo bay and basically said "open your country or be annihilated", then technologically archaic Japan has no choice but to open.
By that time (early 1800s) Japan was still led by the Shogunate, it was a backward, miserable society, the Shoguns refused to acknowledge the benefits of trade and the importance of modernization.
In 1868 Japan entered a civil war, people were fed up with the Shogunate and a growing number became favorable to return the political and military power to the imperial court. The same year Edo (then Tokyo) was taken by the forces favorable to the emperor and the Shogunate dismantled once and for all. This even is known as the Fall of Edo and marks the beginning of the Meiji Restoration.
The Meiji (imperial court) unlike their predecessors were favorable to trade with foreign powers and understood long ago the importance of technology in international relations, thus began the growth of imperial Japan that later was powerful enough to conquer all of East and Southeast Asia.
Today's Japanese society is still shaped by Meiji beliefs and culture, except the emperor is not considered as a living god anymore and Japan is a democracy nowadays.
The main differences are. Japan understood the importance of technology hundreds of years ago, China didn't until very recently. Japanese acknowledged and recognized that Foreign powers were more advanced than them, Chinese still can't admit that anything not Chinese is better. Japan is an island, their culture shaped around this, they learned how to get more from what they have, Chinese like to waste resources, they have too much at their disposal.
I think it was after WWII that made the big difference. Japan was forced to accept many western things as part of their surrender. Their education was formulated to mirror a western education system. They government structure was changed. And, with the western allies help, Japan began rebuilding and relying on western countries to help them. As a result, alliances and friendships were developed, giving Japan more access to the world. China, at this time, was still a closed society, refusing to accept much of anything from the outside world. As you can see, it was not until they opened up to the world that China was able to begin to prosper.
The pro-Chinese, anti-western members on this site will hate this next comment, but I think it holds true from historical and factual standing...China can thank the western countries for it's surge of success in the world. Without opening and accepting western culture, products, economics, and other things from the west, China would be more like North Korea.
I have always wondered what China would have been like today if the Nationalist won the war, while the communists retreated to Taiwan. Would China be a much different country today? Would they be more like Japan or South Korea? Did Communism hold them back? I am not sure. It is an interesting debate to share with Chinese and foreign friends over some brews and a meal.
ScotsAlan:
Yup. It's because Japan was occupied by the US post war. The empire was dissolved and democracy was enforced.
And of course, lots of American money went in, and because they wanted a return on the investment, Japan has access to the American market to sell their products.
You have to admit, America really done it's bit for Japan.
Of course, America also gave lots of money to China (both of them) under the Marshal plan. The same plan that rebuilt Europe. America gave a lot of money to China. But of course, China had a disadvantage because of an internal power struggle. And the wrong man won.
DrMonkey:
@ScotAlan Even before... During WWII, there was the Lend Lease agreement, lots of supplies carried with great risk from India, the Flying Tigers and no less than the best US general available, who happened to know China o so well
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Tigers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hump
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stilwell
Needless to say than I have yet to meet a young Chinese knowing any of these
DrMonkey:
@Nashboroguy Japan adopted a lot of Western ideas before 1900, and not by force :) They even paid foreigners to train their army, police, etc before 1900. By 1905, they were already far more competent than the Russian (checkout Port Arthur). Japan post-1914 was on the level of a major European nation, economy & science wise.
While nashboroguy makes some valid points above, the divergence between China and Japan began long before World War II. Japan's rapid expansion began in the late 1800's when it ended the feudal system and sought to replicate western growth models. Japan developed so rapidly in the late 1800's that it shocked the world by defeating Russia in the Russo-Japanese war at the beginning of the 20th century (Japan also handily defeated China in a military engagement in 1894-1895). At that time, China was picking up the pieces after being humiliated in the Opium Wars that were the start of China's decline for the next hundred years or so. But it's true that after World War II Japan and China both sort of had to start again from scratch and Japan chose to ally itself with the western world to rebuild while China embarked on a disastrous period of failed centrally planned economics and repression. If the Chinese Civil War had ended differently it's safe to say that China would look more like South Korea and less like North Korea but it's on the way there now post Deng Xiaoping.
ScotsAlan:
Imagine if Deng Xioping had been in charge from the start rather than Mao. Zou Enlai and Deng would have made China a lot different than it has been. That's for sure.
dongbeiren:
@Scots As I see it China would likely be a much different (better) place as would the world at large - the global economy would probably be stronger and the Cold War could have turned out a whole of a lot differently with Russia facing a hostile and powerful China to the south. I'm imagining a world dominated by Asia by the late 20th century whereas with MZD winning the war this will be delayed until the mid 21st century.
DrMonkey:
@ScotsAlan Even better, imagine Sun Yat Sen living longer and being a tad more charismatic and less naive. For extra fun, look where and with who Sun Yat Sen studied...
ScotsAlan:
Yeah Dr M. But old Deng spent time in the same place, working in a Renault factory.
The French have a lot to answer for regarding the Chinese revolution.
But yeah, if old Sun Yat Sen had lived a few more years. Interesting thought.
Mao of course never got to France. But it is claimed that he was instrumental in sending the other young comrades there.
I I smell a bit of rewriting of history with that particular story.
ScotsAlan:
@Dong
I think if Mao had not been in charge then Russia and China would have been very close.
Remember the sino soviet split over the secret speech. Khrushchev denounced Stalin and Mao took offence. Up to that point Russia and China were very close.
Mao's reaction to that speech sent the country back decades. The Russian technical experts were sent home and the steel plants were left unfinished.
Meiji Era, and before.
When the Portuguese and then the Dutch did some trade with Japan (1600, 1700), the Japanese noticed that a technology gap. They started to translate Dutch scientific books (called Rangaku) and tested what was new to them. They saw it worked, so they kept learning from those books : they could admit that The Others Not Looking Like Us could know/do things they couldn't. Around 1850, they were forced to sign various treaties, they decided that they really had to hurry-up to catch-on and put themselves into questions. By the early 1900's, they caught-up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meiji_period
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangaku
In China, the attitude towards the European nations was widely different. The idea that outsiders could have any advance over the Heavenly Kingdom was not very much accepted (until mid-Ming Dynasty, it was close to the truth). The familiar "bending to my personal feelings rather than looking at reality right in the eyes". Anything non-Chinese could only be inferior. A few trades disputes and very poor decisions later, China was into shamble. Eventually, educated youth tried to emulate the Meiji Era, but ultimately failed (for reasons and with behavioural patterns that will sound very, very familiar). National union did not happen, the country plunged into misery. Extremists with a quasi-religious (ie. Chinese Communists) faith eventually prevailed, which did not help to bring back rationality.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-Strengthening_Movement
coineineagh:
definitely this. Ming with its Mandate of Heaven and Inward Perfection created too much regional autonomy, which persists to this day. people still find it scandalous to pay more than 10% tax, and need to be tricked by other means to generate revenue. local officials drain the taxes, corruption and guanxi are rife. foreign countries were building universities, financing expeditions and bringing in trade profits, while all of China was/is preoccupied with banalities. the country couldn't do much of anything meaningful, just rest on their laurels as the biggest nation in the world. the government pretended to be too divine to want money, and the people were instead taxed by regional nepotists who gave little back in terms of improvements. the Ming government might have been an attempt to prevent unrest and discontent, but it just made people passive to the point of useless. if Nationalist China had won, we might be cursing them for this same isolationist, dystopian dictatorship, wondering if the CCP might have done a better job.
DrMonkey:
@coineineagh Yup, but if the late Ming were not great, the late Qing were awful, both in attitude and policies...
There are four important terms to know to understand why Japan is much more open than other Asian countries.
Two historical events, the "Fall of Edo" and the "Perry Expedition".
Two governments, the "Meiji" and the "Tokugawa Shogunate".
The Tokugawa Shogunate was a military dictatorship ruling Japan and the last feudal Japanese government, the Shoguns were Japanese warlords and all of them were members of the Tokugawa clan. The various Shogun co-existed together with the Imperial Court of Japan (Meiji) but the Shoguns were the true leaders of the country, they were the military power, the Emperor was the religious and political power.
In the early 1600s Japan began trading with Dutch and Portuguese sailors, they quickly realized how archaic they were compared to those foreign powers, ultimately they understood the importance of technology in international relations.
Too bad for them the Shogunate didn't see this trade and foreign influence in a good way, around 1630 they enacted seclusion laws (yes, bypassing even the Emperor) forbidding foreigners in Japan and trade with foreign powers (with the exception of China, Korea and the Netherlands, only at the beginning).
Japan remaining closed off from the world until the early 1800s when a fleet of warships from the Perry Expedition led by Matthew Perry entered Tokyo bay and basically said "open your country or be annihilated", then technologically archaic Japan has no choice but to open.
By that time (early 1800s) Japan was still led by the Shogunate, it was a backward, miserable society, the Shoguns refused to acknowledge the benefits of trade and the importance of modernization.
In 1868 Japan entered a civil war, people were fed up with the Shogunate and a growing number became favorable to return the political and military power to the imperial court. The same year Edo (then Tokyo) was taken by the forces favorable to the emperor and the Shogunate dismantled once and for all. This even is known as the Fall of Edo and marks the beginning of the Meiji Restoration.
The Meiji (imperial court) unlike their predecessors were favorable to trade with foreign powers and understood long ago the importance of technology in international relations, thus began the growth of imperial Japan that later was powerful enough to conquer all of East and Southeast Asia.
Today's Japanese society is still shaped by Meiji beliefs and culture, except the emperor is not considered as a living god anymore and Japan is a democracy nowadays.
The main differences are. Japan understood the importance of technology hundreds of years ago, China didn't until very recently. Japanese acknowledged and recognized that Foreign powers were more advanced than them, Chinese still can't admit that anything not Chinese is better. Japan is an island, their culture shaped around this, they learned how to get more from what they have, Chinese like to waste resources, they have too much at their disposal.
