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Q: Would you leave if it comes to armed conflict over island disputes?
I would guess the mainland will remain safe, so leaving would be for ideological reasons.
If I do, it wont be because I feel threatened or in danger. It will be because I really am getting sick of the %@%^ islands.
Why dont we just give them away, to Monaco????
ohChina:
It's the territory land that China lost in the past 2 centuries.
The one below includes the islands and territory waters. Some of them China still claims today. Some are already. lost. .
ambivalentmace:
exactly how did china controll these islands without a navy, new form of osmosis
ohChina:
What? China didn't have a navy? Who took taiwan back from the Dutch colonists' hand? Who took Taiwan back again? Who tried to invade Japan in the Mongolian Yuan Dynasty? Who protected Korea from Japan invasion in 1592 and the following 20 years? And who sacrificed in the 1894 war when Japan invaded China?
GuilinRaf:
Honestly, Chinas Navy has not been very effective since the fall of the Ming Dynasty.
Traveler:
Of course China had and has a navy. It just keeps getting sunk by foreign powers. Most recently was in 1895, when Japan sunk almost every single ship. China then had a navy of two ships, and surrendered unconditionally to Japan. China also ceded the Senkakus, Taiwan and a lot of other territory to Japan, to avoid further humiliation by Japan, in a war that China started by it's own belligerence.
Japan later returned Taiwan only to the Chinese government-in-exile, which had fled to Taiwan. It was not given to Communist China, which was not recognised as a legitimate government at that time. The Senkakus were retained by Japan, and this was ratified by the Treaty of San Francisco.
If China were to attack Japan, the defense treaties would ensure that the US would step in, making my presense here quite tricky.
to avoid a costly war , i think america would sneak in and sink the islands to the ocean floor, 2 spoiled boys fighting over a toy, then drilling is international waters , first drill , first money,
if they dont blow it up , qingdao ferries to south korea are 60 kilometers away, not sure i will make it out though.
ohChina:
Who spoiled China? It's Japan that has a big ally and protector.
ambivalentmace:
my reference is 2 countries fighting over a goat island because they dont want to share the oil, who ever has the island , has the oil rights around it, no island , its international waters for anyone to drill,
the rest of the world looks at this as a joke because until oil (money) was involved nobody cared about this for 40 years, now they care , look like selfish hypocrites,
america gave 2 islands to taiwan and 3 to japan , because taiwan actually spent their time fighting japanese and not starving their fellow citizens and consolidation power over as much land as possible.
i also will never understand how i can sell your car, instead of japan , someone should sue the owner japan bought from and say he does not have title or legal authority to own the island and therefore cant sell the island. never heard this arguement in an international court or any other court.
ohChina:
Thanks for being nice. I don't like to debate with aggressive people.
I think oil and rare earth buried around those islands are just part of the reason. We must also see that the international situation is very different from what it was like 40 years ago.
In late 1960s and 1970s, China had a very tense relation with he USSR. About that time America was in economy crisis and falling behind USSR in military aspects. Both US and China wanted to get better along with each other and confront Russia. Well by that time Japan's diplomatic policy was very less independent from America like it is today. On China's side, both mainland China and Taiwan wanted to be recognized as the only legal power. All these factors made the situation at that time very different.
I think the government would incite hatred against all foreigners, just as they did against Japanese last year.
We have already seen some evidence of this with the state targetting American food stores and products in recent weeks.
We have also seen, in the past few days, China increase the number of countries it is directly threatening, by sending a marine task force into Malaysian waters for the first time. This is to enforce it's unilateral declaration of ownership over waters owned by Malaysia, Brunei and Indonesia. They are 1800 kilometres from China.
Also, the Chinese navy has admitted firing upon a Vietnamese fishing boat (flares) in Vietnamese waters which China also unilaterally claims.
ohChina:
The Islas Malvinas are 13,000 kilometers away from the Britain. Distance has absolutely nothing to do with sovereignty in western countries' eyes.
ambivalentmace:
the island is called the falklands and was formed before argentina was a country, something people seem to forget.
ohChina:
i don't want to make you angry, Traveler. It wouldn't do any good to me. And I know distance sometimes has something to do with sovereignty, just like last time you said what US government says has nothing to do with Japan lawfully recognizes some stuffs. We all know it at least has a little business . or relation. whatever. By the way yesterday I read your posts about how a Chinese spat around and made your shoes dirty. I'm very very sorry for that. Not all of us are like it and I hate the spitting people too.
By the way Ambivatlentamce: when Chiang Kai-shek was drawing the map of China sovereignty waters in South China Sea, I think it was before many southeastern asian countries got independent from being a colony too. I am not very clear about that though.
ambivalentmace:
the bottom line to this, is china wants to change the laws of what is international waters based on history.
america does not have a problem with china and cuba drilling oil 160 kilometers off the shores of florida because of internation laws on international waters, does this mean that italy can claim the mediterranean sea and america can claim the entire gulf of mexico,
the world can not make an exception for china and make every body else follow the rules, so their has to be some rational solution for this that nobody will probably like.
japan has been fishing in international waters just off shore of countries all over the world and killing whales much to the condemnation of most of the world, this problem has many guilty parties.
If they keep this up they will have dibs on Tasmania in a year or two.
icnif77:
I am not sure, I wouldn't support China over dibs on Tasmania. Just to piss Traveler
off!
Traveler:
Icnif: Is it important to you to piss me off? Does it make you feel good?
?woody:
Hey Traveler. Are you from Tassie. I spent a fair bit of time there when I was younger. Working on the Gordon River dams, surfing Cloudy Bay on Bruny Island hanging out at the Sandy Bay pub. Great place.
I don't think it'll come to open conflict, but if it does it will likely be very localised. USA and China are two enormous nuclear armed powers and if conflict between China and Japan became open ways would be found to limit that conflict. So no, I don't envisage leaving for that reason.
Still 9 years to do before I leave.
ohChina:
Neither China or America wants to get involved in a war with each other.
i do think china playing bully will eventually lead to terrorism within their borders, having every country in asia against you is not a very good long term strategy.
ohChina:
Do you mean terrorists from neighbor countries? Well that might be a problem. I don't know.
ohChina:
It's a reply to your comment "China didn't have a navy".
What? China didn't have a navy? Who took taiwan back from the Dutch colonists's hand? Who took Taiwan back again from the family that took over Taiwan back in the previous event? Who tried to invade Japan in the Mongolian Yuan Dynasty? Who protected Korea from Japan invasion in 1592 and the following 20 years? And who sacrificed in the 1894 war when Japan invaded China?
ambivalentmace:
my comment is all the islands from malaysia and the vast area that is being claimed could not be supported or protected by a small navy. saying some of it was china controlled maybe but the navy at that time could not control , contain, protect and claim all that is being disputed.
perhaps the british empire was smaller than i thought and china had the empire.
That's the thing as Mr. Rection pointed out - no superpowers are ever going to engage in direct war because they're both armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons. What you may see is little conflicts from smaller countries. What worries this ol' rider is the nationalistic sentiment in China that seems to exceed all other countries - I stumbled upon the facebook page of Mr Xi the other day (needless to say I didn't "like" it) and found that the comments were disconcertingly full of Chinese with VPNs and studying/living abroad/ABCs etc all saying how Xi needs to assert sovereignty and take back land from Russia and India. Dammn.....
ohChina:
Even Chinese studying abroad or have VPNs say they want China to take back the lost territory. They are people who have access to the so-called "free media". Maybe it's time for some people to think more from the Chinese side.
ambivalentmace:
would love to see the chinese get their ass kicked by the russians, they cant walk outside in 15c weather without a coat.
ohChina:
Well did you know if China Tang Dynasty hadn't lost the battle of Talas, there might have never been an Afghanistan, and an Islamic Middle Asia? Maybe it would have helped you guys free from some terrorism?
ohChina:
Feel like need to add that during this Dynasty three Tang princesses married Tibet leaders and soon Tibet became a part of Tang.
ambivalentmace:
ohChina , in defense of china , i love the way you take care of muslims when they cause trouble , i tip my hat to china for a job well done, after fighting in africa for 8 years with them, my tolerance is zero. i think burning down the library of alexander was the most heinous crime ever committed in the world and something that should never be forgiven.
Shining_brow:
Ambivalent, please don't go tarring everyone with the same brush...
There are different breeds of Muslim, just as there are different breeds of Christians, and Jews, and Chinese and Americans.. Not all Muslims (and, dare I say, in fact most) are like that - ie, willfully ignorant. And many (now and then) rue the destruction of that library...
Traveler:
That is not a true map of the Tang Dynasty (618-907). It looks more like a map of Mongolia when it owned China during the Yuan Dynasty (1205-1368). Mongolia was the first of many foreign powers to control all of China, so would have the strongest claim to all of China under China's own "historical precedent" mentality.
The Tang Dynasty was much smaller, only half the size of present day China. See map http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1c/Tang_Dynasty_circa_700_CE.png
I could see it happening. It would only take one idiot in a plane or a ship... And since it's a FACE issue for both sides, throw any and all logical reasoning out the window.
If China attacks Japan (which includes the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands) the US must support Japan.
So hells yeah, I'd be out of here on the next flight. I'm a US citizen registered at the PSB and the local police station. They'd round us all up and send us home, or to some place much worse.
icnif77:
I am not an US citizen, butt.....precaution wise, I got myself MD certificate (fake), that I am 'allergic to rice', just in case I would be shipped to some place worst than USA
.
ohChina:
I think while America wants to prove it's a reliable ally and protector, it actually just wants to distract China and contain China with the Diaoyu Islands issues, instead of directly fighting against China. That's not the best option for America.
ambivalentmace:
japan can take care of china without americas help at all, the world will be very surprised but i want , i know how japan has made american technology ever better, including our military technology, most recent innovations for americas benefit in weapons have come from japanese and israeli engineering, not from america.
I am sick of it, just yesterday morning in a metro TV ... some talks about japan, the word "japan" in chinese appeared maybe 10 times within a minute. and those shot was long at least 5 minits ....
I would think that Japan and the US would not want to stir the pot this week
simply because the best people to deal with Nth Korea is China
China likes a Buffer between it and Sth Korea and the USA
But If China deal with the problem it keeps them from being classed as invaders and the Bad guys
China makes more money out of the west so I do not think it will want to cut off it's pay check
China was the first to recognize Mongolia so as to keep some space between them and Russia
I am not backing China 100% however I see them as a necessary player in this case
as for the original post
I would not panic however I would re evaluate my options and make a plan B and C just incase
Anybody know Russian for which way to the Airport 
edit- I did not receive wu mao for this post 
however any donations are always welcome
